My Gob Has been Truly Smacked

[eegad]

Okay, so you say the "majority" of Mac users are on 10.7, but based on the numbers shown above, there's 47% on 10.7. That means more than half of Mac users can't get the new tables. Seems like a bad move to me. And, okay, so you need 10.7 to do "in app purchases". Well, why make it as an in-app purchase then? Just release a new app every 4 or 6 tables......"Pinball Arcade Volume 2"....."Volume 3", etc., and charge $9.99 or $12.99 or whatever for each one. Then the MAJORITY of Mac users could actually purchase and play them.

I do feel totally ripped off on this. I bought the initial release with 10.6, with the promise of future tables being released. I could care less whether I get them via an in-app update every 2 tables, or I just get to buy a separate app with 4 or 6 tables. But no, I will not be upgrading to 10.7. Ever. My next OS upgrade will occur when I buy my next new Mac, which I guestimate to be late 2013 or early 2014. And by then we'll probably be at 10.9.

 

[Brandon Debes]

Okay, so you say the "majority" of Mac users are on 10.7, but based on the numbers shown above, there's 47% on 10.7. That means more than half of Mac users can't get the new tables. Seems like a bad move to me. And, okay, so you need 10.7 to do "in app purchases". Well, why make it as an in-app purchase then? Just release a new app every 4 or 6 tables......"Pinball Arcade Volume 2"....."Volume 3", etc., and charge $9.99 or $12.99 or whatever for each one. Then the MAJORITY of Mac users could actually purchase and play them.

I do feel totally ripped off on this. I bought the initial release with 10.6, with the promise of future tables being released. I could care less whether I get them via an in-app update every 2 tables, or I just get to buy a separate app with 4 or 6 tables. But no, I will not be upgrading to 10.7. Ever. My next OS upgrade will occur when I buy my next new Mac, which I guestimate to be late 2013 or early 2014. And by then we'll probably be at 10.9.

Wow, what an unbelievable sense of entitlement. Good grief.

 

[RetroDude]

Wow, what an unbelievable sense of entitlement. Good grief.

Yep.
Not like eegad paid for something and didn't get it.

The four tables paid for work.
It's not like (s)he paid for DLC adn was unable to download them.

 

[Howard Sayles]

A little harsh I think. As previously stated, as it stands there will be no bug fixes for people running 10.6. Yes the games run but there are some real issues. For example in Arabian Nights the left flipper sometimes sticks in the up position during multiplay (after collecting all the jewels and rescuing the princess). This has ruined at least two games for me. Also I am sorry when FarSight released TPA for Mac they said there would be download content from the beginning. They did not specify a specific OS would be needed. People bought the App under the natural assumption that they would receive bug fixes, DLC and the promised graphics update. People say it is Apples fault for insisting on Lion as the minimum OS. This argument does not really stand since Apple published the DLC Guide For Developers (available for download) BEFORE TPA was released.

 

[bonch]

People say it is Apples fault for insisting on Lion as the minimum OS. This argument does not really stand since Apple published the DLC Guide For Developers (available for download) BEFORE TPA was released.

In-app purchases previously existed on iOS, so there was existing documentation for it.

In case people don't understand: it's not like Apple is merely insisting that developers require 10.7 for their apps, and wishy-washy developers are just going along with it. The StoreKit framework, which gives apps the ability to provide downloadable content, was introduced to the Mac in 10.7 and so doesn't exist in 10.6.

 

[bonch]

Okay, so you say the "majority" of Mac users are on 10.7, but based on the numbers shown above, there's 47% on 10.7.

15% are on versions of OS X that can't run the Mac App Store anyway.

That means more than half of Mac users can't get the new tables. Seems like a bad move to me. And, okay, so you need 10.7 to do "in app purchases". Well, why make it as an in-app purchase then? Just release a new app every 4 or 6 tables......"Pinball Arcade Volume 2"....."Volume 3", etc., and charge $9.99 or $12.99 or whatever for each one. Then the MAJORITY of Mac users could actually purchase and play them.

In that scenario, bug fixes must be submitted to Apple, approved, and kept in sync with multiple apps. Users would have to update all of them whenever a fundamental change was made that affected them all. Now consider the situation a year from now when there are 20+ tables and you can see that the idea doesn't scale. Even the developers of Pinball HD on iOS used to sell their tables individually, but they eventually unified them into one application with in-app purchases.

I do feel totally ripped off on this. I bought the initial release with 10.6, with the promise of future tables being released. I could care less whether I get them via an in-app update every 2 tables, or I just get to buy a separate app with 4 or 6 tables. But no, I will not be upgrading to 10.7. Ever. My next OS upgrade will occur when I buy my next new Mac, which I guestimate to be late 2013 or early 2014. And by then we'll probably be at 10.9.

The only way I could see Farsight providing DLC tables on 10.6 would be hosting their own DLC service and selling Pinball Arcade outside the App Store, which I can't see happening.

I'm curious why you will never upgrade until you've purchased a new Mac in a couple of years. Mountain Lion is due out at the end of the month, is only $20, and can be upgraded from Snow Leopard. In 2014, Snow Leopard will be a five year old operating system and unlikely to be supported anymore by the majority of apps. If there's a work-related compatibility reason for remaining on Snow Leopard, then you shouldn't be expecting your machine to be supported as a general-purpose computer anyway.

 

[Howard Sayles]

I really don't want to be a bore or too negative (I love pinball and admire what FarSight are doing). But, and it's a big but (oh err) when the Mac OS version was released FS said DLC and future graphic update. They did not specify you had to have Lion. You can make all the excuses in the world but those are the facts. Punters without Lion have a perfect right to feel let down. Yes I will purchase Mountain Lion so that I can download tables but I should not have to. The bottom line is FS should not have released TPA for 10.6 if they knew it could not be supported.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I think Howard has a very valid point. If they knew they couldn't do DLC in 10.6, make 10.7 a requirement from the start. Don't allow people to buy the game if they can't be supported with the next update.

 

[Jeff Strong]

It's also a bit lame that Apple makes you upgrade for stuff like this.....but that's typical.

 

[Brandon Debes]

I think Howard has a very valid point. If they knew they couldn't do DLC in 10.6, make 10.7 a requirement from the start. Don't allow people to buy the game if they can't be supported with the next update.

I see what you're saying, but at the same time it remains true that 10.6 users still got the four tables they paid for and can play them as much as they like. DLC is usually thought of as an "add-on" to a complete product. It would be one thing if the base game was just a shell into which you had to install a la carte tables. I don't feel like the onus was on FarSight to make Apple's OS users aware of Apple's OS version limitations.

 

[bonch]

I really don't want to be a bore or too negative (I love pinball and admire what FarSight are doing). But, and it's a big but (oh err) when the Mac OS version was released FS said DLC and future graphic update. They did not specify you had to have Lion. You can make all the excuses in the world but those are the facts. Punters without Lion have a perfect right to feel let down. Yes I will purchase Mountain Lion so that I can download tables but I should not have to. The bottom line is FS should not have released TPA for 10.6 if they knew it could not be supported.

I'm not making excuses; I'm giving the technical reason why Farsight can't provide DLC updates for Snow Leopard.

You paid for an application with four prepackaged tables, and that's what you got, which you can continue to play on Snow Leopard. If they had required Lion from the start, then people would be complaining about that.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I see what you're saying, but at the same time it remains true that 10.6 users still got the four tables they paid for and can play them as much as they like. DLC is usually thought of as an "add-on" to a complete product.

Except that in this case what they were sold was a product that contained bugs, and the only way to get rid of those bugs is to have a new operating system.

I think it's most likely that FarSight didn't know DLC would require 10.7 (I had no idea either), and if they knew this they would have released it for 10.7 in the first place.

 

[Brandon Debes]

Except that in this case what they were sold was a product that contained bugs, and the only way to get rid of those bugs is to have a new operating system.

Oh, wait, the Snow Leopard version of the App Store doesn't even support patching? OK, that's a bit different. I thought we were just talking new tables here.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Oh, wait, the Snow Leopard version of the App Store doesn't even support patching? OK, that's a bit different. I thought we were just talking new tables here.

It does support patching (it already received an update prior to this to address the controls, etc.), but since the App Store only allows one update per app to be available at a given time (which is a flawed design on Apple's part), the only update available now is the one that requires 10.7.....

 

[bonch]

I think it's most likely that FarSight didn't know DLC would require 10.7 (I had no idea either), and if they knew this they would have released it for 10.7 in the first place.

If Farsight didn't know, they really should have since 10.7 came out last year and was in developer previews before that. I understand the frustration of not getting to play the DLC without upgrading OS X, but I feel as though people playing on 10.6 got what they paid for, and if 10.7 had been required from the start, 10.6 users wouldn't have anything at all.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I'm fairly certain the people bought the game with the intention of continuing to buy tables for it though. Yes, the 4 tables work, but if they intended on buying other tables then they'd be a bit upset. It's like Rockband - yes, you get songs with the game, but you'd be a bit annoyed if you couldn't buy any of the DLC that's released for it. Does it mean you can't play the songs on your disc? No, but you bought the game knowing there would be other songs (or tables, in this case) released that you wanted to buy, and now you can't.

 

[Fungi]

It's like the situation the Xbox owners are going through, only worse. At least there's a hint of light at the end of their tunnel.

 

[Jeff Strong]

It's like the situation the Xbox owners are going through, only worse. At least there's a hint of light at the end of their tunnel.

However, the DLC is available on Mac.....if you have a new enough OS.

 

[Fungi]

However, the DLC is available on Mac.....if you have a new enough OS.

But we're talking about the ones that don't have that option. Without them, this discussion wouldn't exist.

 

[Jeff Strong]

But we're talking about the ones that don't have that option. Without them, this discussion wouldn't exist.

Well, everyone on 10.6 does have the option to upgrade...it may not be ideal, but at least the option is there.

I agree, it's a sucky situation though. Personally, I think it's lame that Apple requires an upgrade for this, but Farsight should have known in the first place.