New update today zaccaria

[W1LDD ONE]

Just now I'am playing Time Machine it is a drainfest but Locomotive not as much. Nudge does not work well for my iPad 3 at all. But I do have a custom mini pin from Sotie for my iPad for the icade set up is nudge better on a mini pin vs iPad swipes.
Will nudge work better with icade?

 

[W1LDD ONE]

Are all these tables just setup to drain instantly? It's hard to get any momentum from the two tables I bought awhile back they drain down the center as quick as you start a game. Kind of a turn off.

 

[night]

They are all drainfests, don't compare it to TPA.

 

[W1LDD ONE]

So I guess I should just stay clear of this app? Not much fun to be had in Zaccaria Pinball.
Thanks night!
Have a great day!

 

[Zevious Zoquis]

So I guess I should just stay clear of this app? Not much fun to be had in Zaccaria Pinball.
Thanks night!
Have a great day!

I wouldn't say that at all. Some of the tables are quite fun and with practice you can lengthen the playtime per game. But these are different sorts of tables than the ridiculously long play tables found in TPA.

Time Machine and Locomotive aren't the best tables though. Pinball Champ, Blackbelt, Star God...are a few of my faves.

 

[Kolchak357]

So I guess I should just stay clear of this app? Not much fun to be had in Zaccaria Pinball.
Thanks night!
Have a great day!

If you like EM style games try Shoot The Rapids. Feels just like a classic Gottlieb wedge head. Longer ball times than most of the Zac tables too.

 

[TripleT]

For me, almost every game is a frustrating drain fest.

And I feel like I cannot aim at all, which is where I think the physics need the most work. I flip, and the ball seems to go where *it* wants.

The game time bonus is unique... but to me it just adds to the frustration. Not A.S.K.'s fault of course.

 

[Pavig]

Each Zac table has a very specific set of skills required for a long game. They all have quirks. (Unfortunately some require physics tweaks for the best playability, and this has been in flux over the last few updates.) Farfalla, Time Machine, Devil Riders, Locomotion, Black Belt and Magic Castle play well for long games, provided you practice react and nudging. Even Hot Wheels plays long once you get used to ball control. Unfortunately Future World is a drainfest (and I think overly so. I managed to play a game with a zero score yesterday, which is almost impossible on TPA tables.) This is consistent with 80s games, which were brutally hard, but rewarded finesse with long play time and a great sense of achievement. (Of the TPA tables, only firepower, gorgar, taxi, flight2000 and centaur really give me the same buzz.)

Unfortunately, after a steady improvement in the physics of the Zac tables each iteration prior to 2.0, they seem to have lost focus. This must be hard for ASK as they are now tweaking the physics engine under a large back catalog of existing tables. Hopefully they can nail it down (and fix outstanding scripting issues) so that they can go forward with a stable physics platform without having to revisit and retune old tables and drag development on fresh content.

The main issues (IMHO) with the current iteration are flipper physics, rubber physics, friction (which seems to have gone down and made balls seem ping-pongy) and the nudge physics (which I think are still ignoring static object collisions).

EDIT: I just checked the nudge physics and THEY HAVE CHANGED! The flippers now act as solid object during a nudge, so nudging is now a valid technique for flipper handoffs etc. Nice work ASK! Will have to explore this more.

Having said that though, I haven't had a good window to go through the old tables and see how they have been affected by the latest physics updates. There has definitely been some tweaking this version. I would be interested to see what other oldbies think of how the latest version plays with old tables. My impression is that (apart from the new table which seems very slippery to me) there has been some tuning under the hood.

EDIT: Definitely feels like physics changes this version. Clown is even more brutal, but some other tables (rapids, EWaF) feel more playable. I think I like the new physics better, but not across all the tables yet, as some (such as clown) are sensitive to the butterfly effect and easily broken.

 

[Zevious Zoquis]

The butterfly effect? Que?

 

[Bonzo]

Putting a coin into a Farfalla in, say, Rio might lead to a Whirlwind in, say, St. Louis turning on its fan? ;P

 

[tripleplonq]

I finally found some time to test the new release. (iPad1, based on default physics settings)



The good:
-The new table is fun and demanding. Nudging helps to avoid outlane drains.
-Gameplay on iPad 1 is more fluid compared to the last version.
-Default physics settings seem to be improved.
-Nudging looks better and the interaction with the flippers seems to be better.
-Flipper physics seem to be improved too. It's easier to pass the ball from left to right.
-The flippers are more powerful. Backhand shots are easier.
-Clown sounds are fixed.
-Futureworld: Lightmap dynamics during gameplay (blinkenlights in the upper right)



The bad:
-Starting 'Earth Wind, Fire' on my iPad 1 crashes the app due to low memory. Everytime.
Error log:

Hardware Model: iPad1,1
OS Version: iPhone OS 5.1 (9B176)
Kernel Version: Darwin Kernel Version 11.0.0: Wed Feb 1 23:17:16 PST 2012; root:xnu-1878.11.8~1/RELEASE_ARM_S5L8930X
Date: 2014-01-31 17:50:35 +0100
Time since snapshot: 42 ms

Free pages: 564
Active pages: 1624
Inactive pages: 911
Throttled pages: 43170
Purgeable pages: 0
Wired pages: 16739
Largest process: Zaccaria Pinball

Processes
Name UUID Count resident pages
…
Zaccaria Pinball <55c91c47ad3d3c419683434ca4314c0a> 9623 (active)
…
(I have about 20 low mem error messages logged, usual procedures to free memory didn't help)



Summary:
Overall, this update is another step in the right direction to perfection. The physics are better than before and flipper mechanics seem to be improved, too. The EWF Low Memory condition is a downer but I'm certain the next version will get rid of this, too.
(See my Gamecenter scores to verify that I've thoroughly tested the app)

(tested based on custom physics settings 4.6 5.4 55 70 2.8 3.9 322, mostly future world)

 

[night]

I don't understand why you think the physics have improved, so fas as I can tell the physics are 'off' since the december update.. (and nothing has been fixed since then). In the januari update, the cool mechanical sound of Clown has been removed when you start the game.

 

[tripleplonq]

I don't understand why you think the physics have improved, so fas as I can tell the physics are 'off' since the december update.. (and nothing has been fixed since then). In the januari update, the cool mechanical sound of Clown has been removed when you start the game.

The physics have improved compared with the last (december) release at least where iPad 1 is concerned. The new table (the one my evaluation is based on) appears to be using significantly different physics settings. (the overall model seems to be the same, but the flipper force, for example, is much stronger)
This lead me to believe that the overall physics have changed. But further testing revealed that the older tables still play like before, so the new table may be an exception.

There are some undocumented bug fixes, too. For example, in EWF, the center kick-out hole geometry is improved. (the ball sinks into the hole/moves on the y-axis.) Maybe Clown got the same treatment.

What I specifically don't like now is the flipper bounce. The Flipper mechanism should only add force when the ball hits really hard and activates the the second coil.

What I love about Zaccaria is the physics based gameplay. There are less awkward 'hand of god' situations where the ball suddenly moves in an unexplainable manner.

And what I miss in Zaccaria is the physical spin of the ball. 'Art of pinball' has this feature and it added a lot of realism in an otherwise sub-optimal physics environment. (The weight of the ball was totally off etc.)
When a fast spinning ball hits a stationary object and trades spin for velocity always makes me happy. That's the only reason I keep one of the AOP apps on my slatleb-pad-thing-pc(iPad).


And I'm sorry about the Clown sounds, but that was a bug I reported based on the low quality (ambient reverb, low def recording). I think the new sounds are better and more consistent, overall.
Having a more realistic sound system would be nice, though. (OTOH, my poor little iPad1 already struggles with the dynamic lightmap, ball reflection and physics) :|

 

[Mick Morry]

What must be recognized is the mechanics of the real tables was always second best in Zaccaria tables. They had great sounds for the day, but the actual gaming mechanics left something to be desired for. If they are copying the true mechanics and feel of the real tables as they say they are...then they are pretty much spot on. What you have is another country trying to re produce Coca Cola Classic. You might come close, but you still are not Coca Cola. The best makers and designers of pinball have always been American, and always will be. Every other countries versions are just going to pale in comparison to a well made American table that was made by one of the Legendary pinball makers. Only so much can be done with the physics. Otherwise you are asking them to remake a table with physics that just didn't exist in the real table. Zaccaria tables were always drain magnets for balls. They ate quarter after quarter out of my pocket when I played them. I could play for a half hour to several hours on a Williams table, and then hit a Zaccaria and the balls were in the gutter within 2 minutes or less.

 

[night]

Good feedback Mick. But the natural ball behaviour seems 'dead' or something, and watching youtubes of these tables reveals a lot more bounch on the elements. It does not feel like a real thing now, its strange.

 

[Mick Morry]

I do agree each and every single table needs some tweaking though. That cannot be denied. While close to a real table...there is still a ways to go. The balls do not react as well as in the real table and the flipper power seems too weak on most tables. Poor table design is always going to be an issue though. Look at some of the out lanes on tables. Tables such as Clown are just gutter magnets. Some tables just seem to gutter balls like no tomorrow.

 

[Flipper bump]

Great feedback !!!

 

[Sean]

I'm going to have to spend more quality time with this app at some point. I appreciate that these tables aren't the same as American ones I'm used to, but the physics have always felt a bit odd. It's quite jarring moving between this and either The Pinball Arcade or a Littlewing Pinball, so if that's being tweaked I'm all for it; I just hope we'll see a nice roll-out to previous tables.

 

[vpalmer]

but the physics have always felt a bit odd. It's quite jarring moving between this and either The Pinball Arcade

PinWiz, "oops, they did it again, oh, baby, baby". so can i write something about "amazing" TPA's physics when ball fly through flippers and even through table objects an cabinet itself?

 

[Sean]

There are the odd glitches yes, but they're few and far between in my experience (granted I don't play for hours a day). Still doesn't change the fact that it feels more like real pinball to me than this does.