No buttons = No precision

[Nik Barbour]

As I said, there are many software/hardware combinations with Android out there, combined with different firmware, carrier skins etc, so these are variables that can potentially cause lag on certain devices. I just wanted to point out that in my experience touch controls work very well, and for many Android users as well, so it is likely a problem on the device Richard tried, not on iOS and Android in general (speaking of unpredictable flipper lag specifically).

(The virtual joystick/ dpad, however, is one of the worst inventions in gaming in the last decade. I tried GTA III with touch controls, it's maddening.)

I've fiddled with / tried dozens of different android devices and never seen or heard of one that suffers from touchscreen lag. I mean these are designed to work exclusively as touchscreen devices.
I even played with a Stealth hydro X last month, which is the cheapest nastiest Chinese tablet imaginable - no screen lag though.

 

[mmmagnetic]

All I can say is that my best score on the Theatre is 8.5B on the 360, and 1.6B on the iPad 3. There is a distinct lack of control on touchscreen devices. Don't get me wrong, I love that I can play while traveling, but I'll never be playing "seriously" on my iPad.

Wow, that is a big difference indeed. Aside from the nudging, which is obviously more problematic on the mobile versions, do you think there is anything else messing with the controls? Any perceptible lag, or imprecisions? Or maybe because you're used to physical controls more?

It would be interesting to hear from one of the Farsight guys about this, I'm sure getting the emulation, the physics, the complex graphics running at a smooth framerate AND keep input high priority and responsive must be quite a challenge, and while I'm no expert on this, physical buttons probably have far less "states" that need checking than a touchscreen that always goes "am I being touched, where am I being touched, by how many fingers, and with any motion?"

Reminds me of something I've read about Forza Motorsport, where the game runs at 60fps, but the physics (or was it the input?) runs at 120 frames per second. In a game like pinball where split-second reactions matter a lot, any lag can be deadly, so I'm curious how it actually works, especially across platforms (consoles, mobile and PC/Mac).

 

[mmmagnetic]

I've fiddled with / tried dozens of different android devices and never seen or heard of one that suffers from touchscreen lag. I mean these are designed to work exclusively as touchscreen devices.
I even played with a Stealth hydro X last month, which is the cheapest nastiest Chinese tablet imaginable - no screen lag though.

That's good to hear, it's been quite a long time I've had my hands on an Android device, and am actually considering a smaller device (around 7 inches) some time in the future.

 

[Nik Barbour]

That's good to hear, it's been quite a long time I've had my hands on an Android device, and am actually considering a smaller device (around 7 inches) some time in the future.

Don't get me wrong - i prefer physical buttons to touchscreen for any game which is why I generally pair a joypad to my phone.
If you are buying an android though , don't buy a Stealth hydro X, man that thing was nasty.
You could barely see through the cheap plastic screen. Definitely not corning Gorrilla glass.
No screen lag though!

 

[Matt McIrvin]

Wow, that is a big difference indeed. Aside from the nudging, which is obviously more problematic on the mobile versions, do you think there is anything else messing with the controls? Any perceptible lag, or imprecisions? Or maybe because you're used to physical controls more?

It would be interesting to hear from one of the Farsight guys about this, I'm sure getting the emulation, the physics, the complex graphics running at a smooth framerate AND keep input high priority and responsive must be quite a challenge, and while I'm no expert on this, physical buttons probably have far less "states" that need checking than a touchscreen that always goes "am I being touched, where am I being touched, by how many fingers, and with any motion?"

Checking a touchscreen in Android is not that hard. The driver and operating system do most of the work for you. Of course I don't know how low- or high-level TPA's screen-reading is, but what it's doing is not that complicated as gestural interfaces go.

I'd guess that a large part of the difference is just that, for the player, tapping a touchscreen with your thumbs is mechanically very different from using pinball cabinet buttons, whereas using controller buttons is not quite as different.

 

[Kolchak357]

I wonder how it runs on the iPad 1, since that thing has so little RAM.

I run it on an iPad 1, and it is surprisingly good. The only time I run into problems are on the very busy pins like RBION. During multiball and when there is a lot of lighting activity it gets a little jumpy/skittish. It has cost me some high scores, so I don't play that table as often as others. It occasionally happens on other tables, but not nearly as often as Ripley. But for the most part the flipper action is good. Shake nudging is iffy, as it loves to tilt if you can't hold it perfectly still. Some aggressive flipper hits will even register as a nudge.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Wow, that is a big difference indeed. Aside from the nudging, which is obviously more problematic on the mobile versions, do you think there is anything else messing with the controls? Any perceptible lag, or imprecisions? Or maybe because you're used to physical controls more?

I think there are 4 main factors contributing to my lower scores on mobile devices:

1. The lack of precise methods for nudging, as was already mentioned. I've suggested an alternate control scheme to correct this issue in another thread.
2. My TV screen is obviously much larger than that of the iPad (yes, I realize this is the Android forum - but the issues are more or less the same on both classes of device), so the "sweet spot" on the flipper for any given spot is correspondingly larger and so I am more accurate generally on the 360.
3. I don't have problems with touchscreen general lag, per se. What I do find happening sometimes is that if I want to flip rapidly, or drop the flipper briefly and immediately raise it again (for a post pass, let's say), the touchscreen does not always register the second tap or is sluggish about doing so. I'm not sure if this is because I'm not lifting my finger completely off the touchscreen surface and therefore it sees one continuous "touch", or if something else is going on, but consequently I trap less on the iPad and make more on-the-fly shots, which of course is more dangerous.
4. My index and middle fingers have muscle memory built up from playing lots of real pinball. On a 360 controller, this is fine with either bumpers or triggers. On the iPad; however, I either have to use my thumbs, or the iPad has to be resting on something and I play the game almost like a piano.

Of these, there's not much to be done about #2 and #4. The first point could be fixed; as I've already outlined how in another thread. The third I'm not sure if the issue can be overcome with proper coding or if it's an inherent physical issue of touchscreens.

 

[Heretic]

Only real issue i have with onscreen flipping is you cant do those tap flips, flipper always seems to reset and always hit at full power

Nudging became enitrely useless in shake after last update, touching is an issue moving fingers/thumbs isnt great. An option of adjusting tilt would be great but i dunno if that be seen as an entirely different game. A push shack to the sides of my very expensive device works sometimes and violent shakings gonna see it smashing into a wall har.

If i read right somewhere here a flip on a real pin would always power the solenoid to full power, so this tap flip is just not giving it time to reset? If its just a case of timing and not pressure i think we can expect it in thr future.

Maybe dreamt that heh

 

[Dutch Pinball ball]

We could use one of these. Anybody tried it? Cause i am not sure the buttons work or the cabinet is only for the looks.

http://www.bitrebels.com/technology/arcade-pinball-drool-worthy-ipad-pinball-emulator-accessory/

I would like a similar cabinet for ipad/other tablet.


This one looks great:

I would like to buy something like this. Or maybe build a custom one?

 

[Heretic]

Im of a similar mind dutch but itd take more than i got heh woodworkwise.....the ideal thing i sat would be a simlar cage that could roll and be effectively shake nudged

It needs that i reckon

 

[jaredmorgs]

Must be a problem on certain Android devices, on my iPad 3 the flippers react crisply and quickly. Maybe an issue with programs running in the background?

I've read somewhere that certain software layers can create some lag on Android, whereas the touch input is more direct integrated in iOS. Sorry if that sounds a bit fanboyish, but that just might be an explaination, and very likely device-dependent. I wonder how it runs on the iPad 1, since that thing has so little RAM.

On the iPad I can, for instance, nail the ramps in MM perfectly, the game runs at a very smooth framerate (better than the Mac version), multiball is a joy... As much as I love traditonal controls, TPA feels perfect on the iPad to me, especially with the hi res screen and the portrait orientation. I would love to try it on the Kindle Fire, seems like great size as well, as the iPad can get a bit heavy from time to time.

And the finger-screen-obscuring isn't a problem at all on the iPad either. For nudging, I've gotten in the habit of grabbing the iPad in the middle and tap the flippers just under the imaginary line where the nudge zone ends, so I can just quickly move the thumbs up for nudging without losing too much time. I'm generally bad at nudging, but I'm learning

I've got a Transformer TF300T Tegra 3 Android Tablet, with a 720p display. I've got nothing negative to say about the graphics at all, particularly now Farsight have enable anisotropic filtering for devices with OpenGL graphic chipsets.

I would say that the position of the "launch ball" button for in-game "Bombs" deployment is in a *really inconvenient* place for large screen devices. Even in landscape mode, you have to make a contorted hand movement to tap on the Launch Ball button near the Camera perspective button.

Having the Launch Ball button closer to each flipper zone would make a lot more sense. With 10% transparency set on the virtual buttons for the flipper region, you would know where flipper controls end and the "Launch Ball" button zone begins.

 

[Wolis]

I have an Android tablet and all tables released to date. I am in the top scores of each tab so the touchscreen controls are working fine.

But I'm getting sore thumbs!

I have just started looking for a nice pinball front end with usb or bluetooth.

Can anyone recommend anything like this owill I have to make my own?

 

[Richard B]

I've got a regular Android phone, with three letters (can't remember what they are) as the model number. I switched to landscape mode, and that made it easier, but I still lose balls because the flippers drop during traps, and often won't work again until it's too late. I also can't hold one flipper and activate the other without dropping the flipper I'm holding. That makes multiball much harder.

 

[Dutch Pinball ball]

That last problem looks like its a problem of the tablet. Probably dont has multitouch.

 

[Hinph]

I do just as well on my Android devices as I do on the PS3 or 360. Touchscreen controls are perfectly fine.

I only wish they would implement a swipe-to-nudge feature so I wouldn't have to hold my devices awkwardly.

 

[neilpinbot]

I've played TPA on my tablet for around an hour solid without too much discomfort, what i like about playing on the tablet is it feels more hands on, the heat from the tablet and with the sound turned up (at least on my tablet) i get the feel of the music through my finger tips on the back of the tablet. like i say for me at least it feels more realistic than just holding a controller. i would advise any one to try and play a few games on a tablet. but be warned just don't let the Mrs start playing angry birds on the tablet like i did,now i have to wait my turn to get on the tab.