Not Zen at all

[AcadDude]

Maybe bandwidth is being used by the masses that are at home due to the current corona virus? Our community is locked down for the next 30 days. So all the servers that were in the office are now being accessed from the internet. All the people not working are using the internet also probably using more bandwidth watching movies and streaming content.

 

[wilbers]

UK just gone into lockdown as well; extremely limited when can go out of the house and gatherings limited to 2 people.

Streaming bitrate has been cut by 25%, but apparently even with increased usage UK has enough capacity to cope without that change.

 

[meanpinball]

Maybe bandwidth is being used by the masses that are at home due to the current corona virus? Our community is locked down for the next 30 days. So all the servers that were in the office are now being accessed from the internet. All the people not working are using the internet also probably using more bandwidth watching movies and streaming content.

It's certainly a possibility. I am not noticing any slowdown or lack of access to other sites, however.

UK just gone into lockdown as well; extremely limited when can go out of the house and gatherings limited to 2 people.

Streaming bitrate has been cut by 25%, but apparently even with increased usage UK has enough capacity to cope without that change.

I'd read about that, but thought that was a unique restriction for Germany (2 people max meetings that is).

 

[dr Force]

Hello everybody, I am new to the website and forums. I love real pinball as well as digital pinball. Started with David's midnight magic on my c64 and bought my first real pinball machine in 1990. A Xenon.
I play both TPA and Williams Pinball on IPAD, MAC and PC. Playing the IPAD version of Williams a lot.
My experience with the IPAD version of Williams pinball from ZEN: In general I like what they do. But the whole experience feels very uneven and unbalanced. in the end I can not but wonder if ZEN is really loving pinball as much as they state. Sure, their marketing machine works. Yet....They might like creating own tables and earning money by selling the programs. Nothing wrong with that. But emulating real pinball tables is something quite different. Understanding what makes a simulation a great simulation is much more than graphics and physics. And frankly, it's a mixed bag. On mobile they made some real strange choices. And I get the feeling tables are created by different groups. In the end some tables work for me and some simply don't.
I contacted ZEN several times. Never a quick response, alway takes about a week. Alway a different 'community manager'. Alway the cheesy "thank you very much, we are so glad you...." even if complaining about something. This looks weird. And in the end nothing was changed or improved in the tables. They state that our "opinion is valuable to them". I'm sorry to say but it sure doesn't feel that way to me. In the end it simply feels useless.
quick examples:
- nudging on IPAD simply doesn't work. Period. Yet, nudging really is a central part in a real pinball simulation. A central part of the experience. Yes, using a sledge hammer on the side of the iPad or tilting the whole IPAD as 'marble madness'. But this has nothing to do with nudging. Swipe nudging is useless as well because of the delay.The ball is long gone by then Tapping nudging is useless because it often doesn't detect taps. It didn't work on ZEN pinball. It still doesn't work on Williams even after all the complaints. i can not conclude other that ZEN Studio's doesn't care. Even after all these years.
- views: who uses the scrolling views 3 to 7? Only view 1, 2 and 8 are usable for me. Instead they should create better (fixed) views. On TPA there are views with more perspective. The flippers appear bigger which is useful on small screens. And on some views the bottom of the table is not showed which again leaves more screen real estate for the real table. I can not imagine why they made these choices.
- small and dark matrix displays: Nothing selectable here. Just really small and dark matrix screens on the top middle of the screen. Instead of big and bright. Reading them while frantically playing takes time and ruins the flow of gameplay. With better view options as stated above and larger matrix displays on the upper left the whole experience on mobile would be much better. And on view 8 the matrix display suddenly isn't 'matrix' anymore but an ugly font. Strange decision
- ball movement is not as smooth as TPA. I think this is a result of the programming choice they made. TPA simply runs faster and more fluid. A shame since fluid ball movement is very important. And it is not as if the game is a technical 3d showcase. So again, sloppy

Reading the internet I am not the only one complaining. Yet it seems as ZEN doesn't improve these basic yet very important aspects of the game. And doesn't care. Yes, fiddling with physics movement, teaming up with arcade 1up. Great. But please, ZEN, show us you do care about existing customers, that you do understand real pinball simulation, that you do understand what makes a simulation tick. In the end I don't really care what programmes say they will do to the physics or Mel Kirk has to say as a marketing person. That's their job. For me, as a customer and pinball lover what count's is how the apps work, how I experience them and if they listen to customers and try to improve things. Value for money and customer experience this is called. And until now: I really like the game but it's still a mixed bag. Some aspects still clearly work better on TPA. I hadn't expected this to be the case at all when I first read about the license deal. A missed opportunity for ZEN. And a partial disappointment for customers.

 

[meanpinball]

What iPad are you using? I have already received feedback that running a newer iPad is preferable to my older iPad Air m788.

TPA works very well on my iPad Air, however.

 

[shutyertrap]

What iPad are you using? I have already received feedback that running a newer iPad is preferable to my older iPad Air m788.

TPA works very well on my iPad Air, however.

Gotta remember, TPA was running in a game engine that even an iPad 1 could render. FX3 and the Williams app are running on a game engine that’s only 2 years old.

 

[meanpinball]

Sure, I've been enjoying TPA playing on my iPhone since 2013.

I was amazed by the level of detail and realism of play quality back then. Playing on a large screen iPad was a revelation in 2018. Only in comparison to the level of detail of FX3 does TPA pale in comparison just a bit. The extra level of detail in rendering, the lighting and even the clearly rendered spin of the ball take things to another level.

TPA does look a little 2 dimensional in comparison. Aside from that, my only significant complaints about TPA are the floatiness of the ball, which doesn't seem to incorporate any resistance from a wood grain table, the lack of occasional 3d jumps of the ball, and the relatively low level of difficulty of the majority of the tables.

Overall, TPA has done an admirable job of making virtual tables available to a wide range of pinball and gaming fans alike.

I really don't think I'll get my proper fix until I jump into visual pinball. Those tables look amazing, clearly the best of what's available now. Of course, that means I'd want 3d goggles, a 5k display, high end graphics card, etc, and quite frankly I don't have the square feet or dollars to devote to such a project right now.

I think I'll be satisfied with a higher end iPad and FX3 for now. The cost of buying the same tables twice on a tablet pales in comparison to a virtual machine with all of the hardware I just mentioned.

 

[shutyertrap]

I really don't think I'll get my proper fix until I jump into visual pinball. Those tables look amazing, clearly the best of what's available now. Of course, that means I'd want 3d goggles, a 5k display, high end graphics card, etc, and quite frankly I don't have the square feet or dollars to devote to such a project right now.

I think I'll be satisfied with a higher end iPad and FX3 for now. The cost of buying the same tables twice on a tablet pales in comparison to a virtual machine with all of the hardware I just mentioned.

My PC running on an Nvidia 1060i card produces a fantastic experience with FX3. I recently acquired a monitor that rotates into portrait mode, so paired that with a second monitor for the backglass and am now running in cabinet mode. Even before that, on my older 680 gfx card (I think that's what it was), FX3 looked and played fantastic. What I'm saying is, you don't have to break the bank to get an awesome experience from it.

I also keep saying, TPA was awesome for what it was at the time. We all knew it could be better, but until I Zen put out that first pack, I had no idea. Zen isn't perfect either, but most of the complaints I had with TPA, they have addressed. Things like proper 3D lighting, true ball spin, friction and proper gravity, more difficulty options, no more vacuum ramps, higher rez art. I didn't expect better sound, amazing flipper physics, or the enhanced visuals.

 

[PaulJansen]

Thanks for your compliment on the name of this thread Pete. I am a creative bassguitar player. Maybe that’s why?

 

[kinggo]

All that Zen did for me in the end is pushed me to play Lords Mobile.
Endless grinding is even worse than xxxxx days of waiting to finish research/construction in LM. But I really did not see Zen tables so much better then FS ones. Sure, visually they are miles ahead but other than that...... Skill shot is/was unknown term for them, physics was also weird, some tables were utterly annoying in any modes..... I am back to TPA because as a game I enjoy it more and I'm sad that they lost the license.

 

[TJGilbert21]

It is no popular statement I’m introducing here. It is sur ton to dislike Pinball Arcade and to worship the Williams tables from Zen. Everywhere I read the same Zen fan statements: tables are beautiful done, physics are jawdropping and man, what are the TPA tables crude when compared. I wonder why! Really, I don’t like Zen at all and to make a statement: with Zen making Williams tables I am not happy at all! Here are some reasons:

1. Casual playing and enjoying on phones and tablets are ruined. Seriously the worst app ever made is the Williams app from Zen. It is unplayable and they killed all the fun! All the tables are ruined by this terrible freemium model and If you buy a package of tables the are crippled because you have to reach a certain level to play. How to reach the level is by shoot around on given tables. All fun is gone.

2. On my Mac I can’t use a controller. Is is not supported.

3. On my iPad en iPhone I can’t play with controller. It is not supported.

4. Om my Mac I can’t choose all keys for control. There are only by Zen selected keys available.

5. Tables are not genuine. Voices and artwork are censored

6. Where are the tables? Come on, since September 2018 they only launced 18 tables!!!

Ok, the apps look much better than TPA! That's a pro. But I wish the rights would be back to TPA. Current situation is not zen at all!

Jumping in a little late, but just thought I'd join in nonetheless. I play TPA and Williams Pinball on my 12.9" iPad Pro—most immersive mobile pinball experience ever! Just want to say to those mobile naysayers out there, I argue that a touch device is the closest to replicating real pinball as you can get—you have a hand on each side of the device, and you're literally touching the table. Plus, you get to play pinball wherever you go! These are some pretty solid wins in my opinion!

Okay, [MENTION=7856]PaulJansen[/MENTION]: Your thoughts were my thoughts exactly in the beginning, so I completely understand your frustration. Out of your points, #1 is still the one that I empathize most with. I was concerned at first that the freemium gameplay would ruin pinball for me, and now, about four or five months later, my fears have been confirmed: I have come to dislike tables I used to love dearly, and I have lost sight of what makes pinball so fun in the first place. I can't wait to finish unlocking all the tables (I only have four left!) so that I can rediscover that original joy of the game.

2&3. I don't mind so much about controllers, but my biggest problem is that the Williams Pinball iOS app doesn't rotate with screen orientation, so you are forced to hold your device in one direction, which can be very difficult when you're in desperate need of a charge, and your cable is getting crushed under the bottom of the device while you play (okay, console players, you win on this point!)

4. In addition to this very frustrating point, the Mac app doesn't support Retina Display, so the whole thing is a pixellated mess! I wish they'd fix that! Also, it's annoying that the Williams tables are just mixed in with the original Zen Tables. I feel like they should be divided into a separate category.

5. I'm not so sure about this; the tables seem pretty genuine to me on iOS, but then again, I may be missing some details. Out of curiosity, do you happen to have an example of this censorship? I know that even TPA had to change some things based on licensing rights and whatnot. TPA did manage to secure additional rights as they went on (e.g. Creature from the Black Lagoon background music used to be very limited, and then they finally got the rights to the rest of the music, if I recall correctly). Perhaps Zen will do the same?

6. I agree; I can't wait for more tables. But these things do take time, especially with the depth of detail Zen is putting into their tables.

Overall, although I'm glad that I can earn the tables for free on the Williams Pinball App—particularly because I already purchased all of them on TPA, I do believe the entire interface needs to be streamlined to focus more on the tables and less on the freemium stuff (for example, even when you upgrade your tables to the max, the icons still show the stars and upgrade bar. It would be nicer if that crap went away when you unlocked the table to the max). But I believe Zen is doing really great work. They just need to focus on improving the app experience, and I think they'll be golden.

 

[pinballmonster]

None of your complaints show in anyway that TPA's core game is in anyway better than Zen's by the way. Zen's graphics, ball and flippers physics, realistic nudging etc. are just plain and simple better. You have specific issues that are annoying you regarding your the platforms you play on. The old adage of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater is apt here ;-)

I initially played on Mac but quickly realised that it will never satisfy my wants and needs for the game. I bought and Xbox One and love playing FX3 to bits on it.
I played happily with a controller on Mac using a free app called Enjoyable (https://yukkurigames.com/enjoyable/)... what annoyed me from the Mac app was mostly that it didn't have online leaderboards and tournaments.

I'm using the app as well but get lots of input errors!

I am using knockoff versions of the PS3 and PS4 controllers, but I also tried a genuine PS4 controller and still had input errors.

Do you have a controller recommendation for Mac?