Nudging Overpowered?

[Jeff Strong]

Do you guys think nudging is overpowered? I've never been very successful with nudging in real life, but I've become quite good at it in TPA and I think this is a factor in making the game easier than real pins, and making the game longer in duration.

Any time a ball is headed for the center drain, I can almost always prevent the drain by nudging. I'm not as good with outlane saves, but I can often prevent the ball from getting to the outlane in the first place by nudging it towards the center for instance if it's headed down towards the top of the sling.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems overpowered to me, especially when you play with a controller.

Also, the tilt warnings aren't sensitive enough on some tables.

Perhaps this is another thing they could adjust in a harder difficulty option or tournament setting. We can dream at least...

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

agree 100%

 

[xNiCeGuYx]

Yes, it is overpowered and you can get away with a lot more nudging than in real life.

 

[Rudy]

Personally I think that nudging is just right, yes it's a lot more effective than nudging a real machine, but it's the perfect mix of simulation vs fun.

It gives an element of chance, and considering so many tables have lanes that can contribute to SDTM drains from plunging, it'd at least give us a chance to save the ball.

'Fixing' nudging would just make the near impossible Wizard goals go back to being flat out impossible, I've been playing the game since launch and I haven't gotten to RBION's Atlantis, MM's end of game mode or even halfway through Champion Pub. Is nearly breaking the game worth it to improve the gameplay experience for a few people?

 

[DeeEff]

I think TPA nudging (iPad, tap nudge) is just about perfect, given the difficulty of digitizing an analog function. Yeah, it's *way* easier than IRL, but it just feels right on the tablet - the sensitivity (several seconds of rest needed before nudging again to avoid warnings), the power (enough to save the ball with a single nudge (most times, most tables)), and the actual ball motion when nudged.

PS3 TPA with its analog nudging is far easier than iOS (which, again, is far easier than IRL), but I don't think it's noticeably more powerful; at "full nudge" the ball seems to veer similarly to iOS, at least to me. But if you only do small nudges you can push the ball around a LOT before getting any warnings.

I am a nudge monster, both with TPA and on real machines - I can only play a couple of games on a real table before my wrists hurt from moving it around (usually without warnings). So I especially enjoy TPA's pain-free, predictable nudging abilities.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Personally I think that nudging is just right, yes it's a lot more effective than nudging a real machine, but it's the perfect mix of simulation vs fun.

It gives an element of chance, and considering so many tables have lanes that can contribute to SDTM drains from plunging, it'd at least give us a chance to save the ball.

'Fixing' nudging would just make the near impossible Wizard goals go back to being flat out impossible, I've been playing the game since launch and I haven't gotten to RBION's Atlantis, MM's end of game mode or even halfway through Champion Pub. Is nearly breaking the game worth it to improve the gameplay experience for a few people?

Read the last part of my post...

I was talking about toning nudging down for a harder difficulty option/setting. I'm pretty sure there are more than a few people who want a difficulty option (emphasis on the word option), and that number will increase as time goes on. More people will improve their skills and want more of a challenge. Meanwhile, the game as we know it is fine for a normal difficulty setting, so this wouldn't "break" the game for anyone. It seems like everytime a harder difficulty option is brought up, someone always misunderstands that we are only asking for an optional setting.

 

[jbejarano]

I would agree that nudging is too overpowered, too easy, and that tilt warnings are too generous, especially compared with real life tables. I actually have a paragraph about nudging in the other thread I just began about randomness in the physics engine:

"The last point would be the nudges. Right now, the nudges seem to be a bit binary. Either you nudged or you didn't and the nudge always seems to be about the same amount. I doubt that players can nudge with quite that level of precision in real life, so some randomness does seem warranted here. However, I'm sure some expert players will disagree and claim to be able to nudge real life tables with very high precision. For touch nudging, I think some randomness is needed so as to not allow players to begin to use nudging in as reliable a fashion as the flippers. But, for nudging initiated by accelerometers in mobile devices or console controllers, some less binary concept of nudging seems like it could provide a better level of control. Even then, a bit of randomness below the level of the UI's nudging precision could be warranted."

 

[Tabe]

I'm not sure nudging is overpowered but it's definitely easier than in real life. I don't think the tilt warnings are any more generous than real life - other than Attack From Mars, which is REALLY generous. I'm pretty happy with the nudging as it exists right now on the PS3.

 

[Mick Morry]

I am way better at tilting on real tables than in this game. So much so that I almost never nudge in TPA or any other video game versions of pinball. On a real table I could take advantage of the ball in such ways that it was nearly criminal. LOL I wouldn't change it at all, as the more you change it...the more that other issues become real issues.

Look at EA's Battlefield 3 as an example. The game is nearly unplayable now due to the excessive patches and nerfing and buffing and nerfing back and forth of weapons and lighting and textures. Now the lag and stuttering on all the servers is just crazy and RPG's don't kill tanks and on and on.. Leave well enough alone is my opinion.

Just don't nudge the table. There's a free and instant solution. It takes you to nudge the ball. The game doesn't do it all by itself. If you nudge you want to save the ball or guide it in a manner where you adopt more control of the ball than you already had...so complaining about manipulating a ball that you are trying to control in the first place is...ahem....counter productive.

 

[Fungi]

I don't think it's "overpowered" as much as it is "easier". You're comparing tapping a screen and flicking an alalog nub to shoving a 300 lb. machine around to do your bidding.

 

[fenderbendr]

I think Pro Pinball's nudging is how it should be in TPA. It has just the right amount of sensitivity that makes it very accurate to real life table nudging.

 

[Rudy Yagov]

It all depends on how it's used. Never done a death save on a TPA table, but I've done plenty in real life.

 

[DeeEff]

I don't think it's "overpowered" as much as it is "easier". You're comparing tapping a screen and flicking an alalog nub to shoving a 300 lb. machine around to do your bidding.

Quick and concise. +1

 

[smbhax]

I never used to try nudging on real pinball tables, then after playing a bunch of TPA I went and tried to do the slap saves and other stuff TPA lets you get away with and...got a lot of TILTs. So in my somewhat limited experience, the tilt bobs in TPA are far too generous and pretty much let you get away with murder most of the time, far more than is allowed on the real life tables I've played. Like, in TPA you can do a slap save and never get a tilt or even a warning as long as you hadn't done another hard nudge right before that, whereas on a real table a slap save is usually going to earn you a warning, sometimes even an outright tilt. And the real life EMs I've played seem even less generous in terms of what they let you get away with than the modern games (and of course they don't have warnings).

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Like everything else related to difficulty, I think this needs an option adjustable to the player's taste, with the current arrangement the default, and a more conservative arrangement for tournaments.

 

[DarkAkatosh]

It's definitely overpowered in the sense that the tilt warnings are way, way too generous.

 

[sixmillion]

Do you guys think nudging is overpowered? I've never been very successful with nudging in real life, but I've become quite good at it in TPA and I think this is a factor in making the game easier than real pins, and making the game longer in duration.

Any time a ball is headed for the center drain, I can almost always prevent the drain by nudging. I'm not as good with outlane saves, but I can often prevent the ball from getting to the outlane in the first place by nudging it towards the center for instance if it's headed down towards the top of the sling.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems overpowered to me, especially when you play with a controller.

Also, the tilt warnings aren't sensitive enough on some tables.

Perhaps this is another thing they could adjust in a harder difficulty option or tournament setting. We can dream at least...

Totally agree Jeff, nudging is too easy, especially with a controller, more difficult on the Ipad.

 

[Mark W**a]

Is it overpowered in Pinball Arcade?

Absolutely.

Do I want it changed?

Ehh. Not really.

The moment you start getting caught up in Pinball Arcade land is the moment you start to realize that the physics really aren't that good, and it's absolutely nothing like real pinball.

Best physics out there right now in digital? To me, yes. However I've only played Zen, which I find the physics there to be absolutely awful.

So basically to me it goes: zen<<<<pinball arcade<<<<<<<<<<real life.

I have seen videos of Microsoft Pinball Arcade from 1998 and I have to say, the physics ball and flipper mechanics look... Incredible? Honestly, but that's just video. Same with Pro Pinball and even that Visual Pinball version of T2 (but just that as other vp tables look dredful. What I'm saying is, without having played those the physics look better and more accurate than pinball arcade. Look being the key word.

 

[Mark W**a]

Adding in ball spin, drop catching, better cradle separating, button sensitivity, more realistic flippers, more realistic physics period (requires an overhaul and ALOT of research and development which I doubt Farsight has) bug fixing completely redone mechanical sounds on anything non-em, speed adjustments on em and early 80s, and so forth.

My point is. There's a ton wrong with the game. Nerfing nudging isn't really going to matter much but with that said no, you are not going to find someone disagreeing nudge is overpowered as hell in this game.

At least it's not underpowered like in Zen where it may as well not even be a feature.

I don't think it's "overpowered" as much as it is "easier". You're comparing tapping a screen and flicking an alalog nub to shoving a 300 lb. machine around to do your bidding.

I love how if I try to move a Bally or Williams my arms feel like falling off but with a Stern I can pretty much throw it across the room with little effort.

Jersey Jack Wizard of Oz though is a total throwback to the big, heavy, well built Bally-Williams from back in the day. That sucker is HEAVY and very hard to move at all.

Read the last part of my post...

I was talking about toning nudging down for a harder difficulty option/setting. I'm pretty sure there are more than a few people who want a difficulty option (emphasis on the word option), and that number will increase as time goes on. More people will improve their skills and want more of a challenge. Meanwhile, the game as we know it is fine for a normal difficulty setting, so this wouldn't "break" the game for anyone. It seems like everytime a harder difficulty option is brought up, someone always misunderstands that we are only asking for an optional setting.

Turning off extra balls is plenty difficult even on console.

Anyone putting up ridiculous scores on console is in one part nudging cheating another part extra ball milking.

Some tables like MM iirc you can just keep doing laps so once you finish the wizard goal you get all the eb opportunities back.

I think most are like this. Hard to remember since I've been on mobile so damn long.

 

[DarkAkatosh]

Of course real life physics are going to be better than that of a video game.