Nudging Overpowered?

[sotie]

I love how if I try to move a Bally or Williams my arms feel like falling off but with a Stern I can pretty much throw it across the room with little effort.

Jersey Jack Wizard of Oz though is a total throwback to the big, heavy, well built Bally-Williams from back in the day. That sucker is HEAVY and very hard to move at all.

+1. I played a bunch of Williams DMD's a couple of weeks ago then I was on an Avengers table the day after. I nudged it hard (got too excited) and it moved at least half-a-foot. I nonchalantly took a peek over my shoulder to make sure the manager wasn't watching me.

 

[kimkom]

Do you guys think nudging is overpowered? I've never been very successful with nudging in real life, but I've become quite good at it in TPA and I think this is a factor in making the game easier than real pins, and making the game longer in duration.

Any time a ball is headed for the center drain, I can almost always prevent the drain by nudging. I'm not as good with outlane saves, but I can often prevent the ball from getting to the outlane in the first place by nudging it towards the center for instance if it's headed down towards the top of the sling.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems overpowered to me, especially when you play with a controller.

Also, the tilt warnings aren't sensitive enough on some tables.

Perhaps this is another thing they could adjust in a harder difficulty option or tournament setting. We can dream at least...

Good call. Absolutely, nudging is overpowered. Like you say, it's especially easy to save a centre drain without any sort of tilt warning.

Am I right in thinking that one of the 'achievement' awards is the option to turn off the tilt warning altogether? What's all that about?

I think we definitely need most of the tables re-configuring to harder settings, this would be another way of achieving that. At the very least there should be some options to make the game harder (and more realistic).

 

[vpalmer]

I thinknudging must be simply be not so effective - not only in "hard" difficulty. i dont want to separate people in different leagues in cotext of score tables - if table is hard - it must be equally hard for all players to get to the top table goals. you dont call operator IRL and ask him to change table rules only becuase you want became "ruler of universe" and "have fun". for most casual people pinball IRL is like "put the coin, start the ball, klank-klank, push flipper button, stdm, another ball, klank-klank, outlane, the same with 3rd ball" - and all this things take no more than 3 minutes - not your freaking 1 hour casual sessions in TPA. of course everyone want to feel himself like "a wizard", but i will prefer if amount of players with billions in leaderboards will be dramatically decreased.

 

[clembo2021]

Nudging is just completely broken as it stands right now. Entirely too powerful.

My solution would be variable nudging. We'd have at least 2 different nudge strengths. A quick tap/slide would result in a very light nudge (about 1/4 to 1/3 the strength of the current nudge). These light nudges would count the same for warnings as the current nudges do (maybe a bit less). Two quick light nudges right on top of each other would be a single warning, then another right away would be a double warning/tilt.

The current nudge would be the "heavy nudge", and using ONE of these would give you double danger. You could still light nudge IF you let the tilt-bob settle down (and it would take a while to settle), but you're basically walking on thin ice. I don't think there's room for a third nudge type (between light and heavy) because it'd be too hard to get the strength of nudge you're looking for.

 

[Tann]

Any time a ball is headed for the center drain, I can almost always prevent the drain by nudging. I'm not as good with outlane saves, but I can often prevent the ball from getting to the outlane in the first place by nudging it towards the center for instance if it's headed down towards the top of the sling.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems overpowered to me, especially when you play with a controller.

Also, the tilt warnings aren't sensitive enough on some tables.

Perhaps this is another thing they could adjust in a harder difficulty option or tournament setting. We can dream at least...

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Compared to the real life, it's like you have a total control of the ball path, especially with a controller stick.

However, without the TPA nudging, some tables would just be unplayable: let's say ST:TNG, EATPM, Genie, ToM, ToTAN (I almost nudge on each shot on these tables).

I think a much less generous tilt warning would be the solution. You could still nudge as it is now in TPA, but just ONE time in a row, with a decent delay for the second allowed nudge.

Otherwise: TILT. (If you don't play nicely, don't play at all ---> I hate this CV quote.)

 

[tyche]

Can't live catch, drop catch, or bang the side of the table. So I don't feel nudging is overpowered. It helps to balance keeping the ball alive.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

play an 8 hour game of BOP

 

[Tabe]

Best physics out there right now in digital? To me, yes. However I've only played Zen, which I find the physics there to be absolutely awful.

I think both have their high and low points. Zen overdoes ball spin and the general rolling of the ball isn't great. TPA is a mess when it comes to flipper/ball interactions and the angles that things take on collisions. In the end, I'm not sure one is any better than the other - they kinda even out to me. And neither one is even in the same league as Pro Pinball.

 

[smbhax]

Pro Pinball's (in the PC "Kickstarter 1998 Edition" of Big Race USA they released recently as a Kickstarter incentive, anyway) physics feel a bit off to me, the ball is too bouncy and falls too quickly. Their flipper interaction does feel sharper than TPA's, though.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

but you can change the physics kinda with the pitch of the table and stuff. maybe 1 day when FS's priority list gets shorter we can have options like that too!

 

[Clawhammer]

It is too powerful in my opinion and also too predictable. I'm always in favor of adding difficulty options.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

shake your head back and forth while playing
Play with your feet!
play through a mirror

 

[ER777]

I don't think it's "overpowered" as much as it is "easier". You're comparing tapping a screen and flicking an alalog nub to shoving a 300 lb. machine around to do your bidding.

Exactly. Its easier and more predictable but not necessarily overpowered. If you can move the real table enough (without tilting) you can get a similar effect. Its almost as if TPA gives you the benefit of the doubt on both the table being nudge-friendly and that you're a fairly strong person capable of moving the table easily. I've played a couple real tables set up to be very nudge-friendly (light Stern tables with somewhat loosely bolted legs and generous tilt sensitivity) that could have the ball controlled almost as much as TPA. I find those tables very enjoyable to play and very good for improving my nudging skills.

but you can change the physics kinda with the pitch of the table and stuff. maybe 1 day when FS's priority list gets shorter we can have options like that too!

Playing Zen with the table at its maximum slant is an interesting experience. I would love to see that option in TPA.

 

[WilliamPorygon]

shake your head back and forth while playing
Play with your feet!
play through a mirror

Turn on the screen rotation lock, and play with the table upside-down

 

[pezpunk]

in real life, nudging is HARD, but believe me, truly great nudgers can be just as effective as it is in TPA! Obviously we aren't all truly great nudgers, but at least on iOS, there just isn't a way to implement much beyond the TIMING of the nudge. the implementation of how hard and the direction are pretty rudimentary, and there's not really a lot could be done to improve it with just a touchscreen interface. so basically the timing of it is the only skill a player can really refine, and TPA sort of simulates a very very very good nudger, in terms of force applied. it's giving the player the benefit of the doubt since the force of the nudge is not something it can measure with much fidelity.

 

[pezpunk]

Exactly. Its easier and more predictable but not necessarily overpowered. If you can move the real table enough (without tilting) you can get a similar effect. Its almost as if TPA gives you the benefit of the doubt on both the table being nudge-friendly and that you're a fairly strong person capable of moving the table easily.

right. it gives you the benefit of the doubt since there's no way for an iPad to accurately simulate the experience of pushing around a 300 lb machine with a great deal of finesse. so it assumes you're one of the greats

 

[jbejarano]

in real life, nudging is HARD, but believe me, truly great nudgers can be just as effective as it is in TPA! Obviously we aren't all truly great nudgers, but at least on iOS, there just isn't a way to implement much beyond the TIMING of the nudge. the implementation of how hard and the direction are pretty rudimentary, and there's not really a lot could be done to improve it with just a touchscreen interface. so basically the timing of it is the only skill a player can really refine, and TPA sort of simulates a very very very good nudger, in terms of force applied. it's giving the player the benefit of the doubt since the force of the nudge is not something it can measure with much fidelity.

Agreed, nudging, especially side nudging is very difficult in real life without tilting. It's true with the touchscreen that it's difficult or impossible to feature different strengths of nudge. But, with the accelerometers, I have to admit I was expecting them to be a bit better. Yes, you're not moving around a 300 pound machine, but at least you could use different strengths and directions of nudge based on the movement of the accelerometers. However, at least in iOS, the "shake" nudge is strictly binary. It doesn't take into account how strongly you nudged. In fact, if you play the game with the iPad upright, it often assumes you're nudging all the time and tilts almost immediately. It seems to just be sensing that the iPad is upright to trigger a full nudge, rather than trying to detect actual magnitude and direction of movement for a proportionately strong nudge.

 

[ER777]

right. it gives you the benefit of the doubt since there's no way for an iPad to accurately simulate the experience of pushing around a 300 lb machine with a great deal of finesse. so it assumes you're one of the greats

Of course there's not really any choice when dealing with non-analogue controls but there is a little finesse (just a little) to it at least on the PS3. Not that it takes anywhere near the same skill as the real thing, but if you move the stick abruptly and forcefully a couple/few times you will tilt while if you do more subtle movements with the stick you can basically nudge as much as you want.

 

[grashopper]

I would love a harder option. I don't like playing many of the newer tables just because the game lasts so stinkin long.