Overrated?

[smbhax]

Well, they're not going to change the size of the balls, that would be extra work, not to mention crazy.

If we assume the yellow TZ flippers are the standard 3" flippers, and the ball sizes are identical between TZ and ST:TNG, then that means the ST:TNG flippers are about 2.75", or twice as short as lightning flippers, which are 1/8th inch shorter than standard flippers.

Kind of interesting though in that if you line up the cradled balls in the screenshots, the flipper tips come out about the same distance away. I suppose that could mean the TZ flippers are just sort of set back a bit and actually pivoting higher up the flipper than usual, although that would be kind of weird. Checking their action in the PS3 and Android versions, the TZ flippers *do* look slightly offset when they rotate, whereas the ST:TNG flippers look perfectly centered in their rotation--the TZ ones don't look off by nearly as much as a quarter inch, though. And flippers with very slightly off-center rotations are pretty common on the TPA tables. Anyway the ball's cradled position could have more to do with the position of the lane barrier adjacent to the flipper.

But if these are the regulation 17/16" pinballs, then it's the TZ flippers that are too long: if 83 pixels = 17/16", then the TZ flippers at 251 pixels = 3.21", or 0.21" longer than regulation flippers. Meanwhile, the TNG flippers, measured in relation to the ball's size in pixels, come in at 3.006", ie the regulation 3" size. So by that measure it's the TZ flippers that are too big. I can't find any indication that TZ's flippers are supposed to be anything other than the regulation 3" size, so that's kind of weird. And given that the ball-to-flipper size for ST:TNG comes out perfectly matching regulation size, then I think this is the most likely scenario: ST:TNG's flippers are the correct size, whereas the flippers in TZ are slightly longer than normal.

 

[ER777]

Disagree with op. if anything, it's underrated. One of the top two tables ever made.

I feel the same way, this is one of my favorite tables too.

 

[canuck]

Can perfection be overrated? I think not.

 

[Squid]

Perfection can never be achieved.

 

[superballs]

I still don't understand how this table could be considered overrated. My introduction to it was in TPA, though I've played a game here and there IRL, but it was years ago and never really serious attempts.

I left it alone for a long time even in TPA despite buying it right away but once i started playing it I realized just how much it has to offer.

 

[Tann]

Despite of the "Shot on the left corner of the right ramp = 100% chance to drain in the left outlane even if you shake the table like crazy", it's a fun table to play, very addictive.

But I would have rather prefered a little less difficulty (outlane drains frequency reduced, above all) and a predefined maximum number of extra balls allowed per game (let's say 3 [2 in-game + replay score]).

On EATPM, FS did that and it's great as it is: you can't earn more than one extra ball with the right ramp, but on the other side, outlanes are fair. And the table is not a marathon (on the contrary of Scared Stiff).

 

[morenoquinteiro]

This table is fantastic, but I always feel like something is missing. Maybe it is the lack of sense of acomplishment , when you complete missions. Even if you miss all the shots, the mission light is lit, and I know that means no big points, but points only are too cold, there should be a better way to reward the player. On the other hand, it means that the game is not so focused on the missions only, which I think it's good.

I like the ramps, so precise and fast, it is totally related to the space theme. The warp levels are fantastic, and you got shooter elements, you got mistery, tension... wow. But as I said, I feel something is wrong, I'm not sure what exactly is. And I'm not talking about the table difficulty, I like that part - it may seem unfair, but hey, if you don't miss your shots, there is no way your ball goes to the drain. So yeah, it is painful, but not unfair in a strict sense. It makes me want to get really good on it! I started getting only 100 or 200 million points (a shame), now I'm happy that I often get around 1 and 2 billions. I know that is no big score, but it shows the evolution. I like that kind of slow progress you get.

 

[superballs]

I love this table. I played it a couple times when i was much younger, definitely not enough to get to know it (1$ per game was steep at that time). It's one of the few tables that actually feels like the story it's presenting and that alone makes it something special.

 

[Sumez]

STTNG is amazing, and I don't get the thing about Borg multiball scoring being unbalanced. Sure it's worth a lot, but I've never gotten more than a single Borg multiball during a game (by using "light lock" plunges, too), and even though it does give you a lot of points if you're good at getting jackpots, a bunch of well played modes during the same game should get you at least as many points.

Of course, I haven't played the TPA version. Maybe the multiballs are easier to start or play there? In general, a lot of tables are a lot easier to play on TPA, which might mean some scoring discrepancies are a lot more obvious.
It's a horribly punishing table, but once you get some good combos in, it's soo satisfying to play. I love seeing the balls twirl around the metal ramps hovering above the table.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

The problem is that the Borg Multiball jackpot value does not reset after each multiball, so it just grows and grows and grows. I've seen credible reports of 600M base value, with 1.8B triple jackpots. In contrast, Final Frontier is capped at 250M a shot.

Borg Multiball also never gets any harder to start, so you're always at most 6 right orbits away from it.

 

[vikingerik]

It's not unbalanced for average players on a real table who get Borg Multiball once or twice in a game. It is unbalanced for pros on the real table or average players on TPA, where the scoring becomes about Borg MB's eternally escalating jackpot and nothing else. On TPA, Borg MB is really easy to start over and over: for each new ball exiting the bumpers, let it drop past the upper flipper and dead pass to the left for another orbit shot.

STTNG is a wonderful table in general, but doesn't hold up for high end serious play as well as say Twilight Zone. When Borg MB is the only worthwhile goal, it robs the table of its vaunted flow and turns it into Bride of Pinbot in hitting a single shot over and over and over.

 

[Sumez]

Borg Multiball also never gets any harder to start, so you're always at most 6 right orbits away from it.

I find that the right orbit is a terribly difficult shot on the real table Not to mention risky

What vikingerik tells sounds awful - and weird considering when TPA originally got STTNG, I remember people raving about how well the difficulty actually matches the real tables. Seems that's not really correct after all

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

What vikingerik tells sounds awful - and weird considering when TPA originally got STTNG, I remember people raving about how well the difficulty actually matches the real tables. Seems that's not really correct after all

Most of the rest of the table does, actually. It's just the right orbit is quite a bit easier (there is still risk if you hit the ramp standup) and unfortunately with the held jackpot values, Borg MB overpowers the rest of the table.

If FarSight ever manages proper ball spin and a touch of randomization to cut down on the predictability a bit, this problem may go away.

 

[Sumez]

I never actually noticed the Borg jackpot increasing. What causes it to increase? Does it do it on tournament settings, too?

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I never actually noticed the Borg jackpot increasing. What causes it to increase? Does it do it on tournament settings, too?

Bumper hits...which if you're making repeated shots to the right orbit for locks, you're going to get a lot of.

 

[Sumez]

I guess the bumpers on TPA might be too active as well. I noticed that problem in CTFBL, it pretty much ruined the TPA version for me.

 

[pezpunk]

what sean is saying is basically correct. I won the STTNG kickstarter tournament with a score over 100 billion. the game took an hour and by the end my super jackpots were worth like 2.5 billion each or something like that. as an owner of a real STTNG, the TPA version IS very very accurate and the difficulty is very much in line with the real thing, except for two things. one, I think the bumpers are a little too active, allowing for both larger jackpots and more extra balls (reaching 6x multiplier lights extra ball, which is easy when the bumpers are throwing the ball over the rollover lanes so much). two, the return from the right orbit is too predictable. you can always dead pass to the left, cradle, and shoot up the orbit again. this pretty much only affects the highest level of play in TPA. the game is brutal to the casual or average player.

 

[Sumez]

Wow.... Now i see what you guys mean!


Apart from some annoying "digital" issues with flipper accuracy (I'm gonna make another post about that one of the next days, it happens on multiple tables, at least on PS3), I have enjoyed this table a lot, now that I finally decided to buy it on PS3. It's such a great table, with a ton of depth to it, considering its age. It's great fun to play in real life, but now that I'm able to play with at least one pretty much guaranteed wizard mode, it opens up a whole new level of strategy. In fact, considering this is probably one of the easiest wizard modes to get on TPA, especially with the ridicolous amount of extra balls (I only ever played the table without extra balls IRL), I can sort of see why you'd call it overrated. Reaching wizard mode with 4 or more relics on the real table is one of my big goals in pinball, and it seems to far out of reach on the real table, but on TPA it happens constantly, so with that done, there's not really much more to go for.

That said, I did have a really great game today, one of those really great experiences where a game has a bunch of ups and downs, and through some great split second descisions, perfect combos, and thorough strategy considering what modes to play out, etc. making that shot to the center target for a Final Frontier with three full relic sets just felt fantastic, as I sat in my couch hooting at the TV. I feel that I can do much better, too, but that was a nice milestone to reach only two days after purchasing the table, the game ending in just over 15 billion.


So anyway, with that out of the way, i tried the thing about playing for Borg multiball, and only Borg multiball. And in my very first try, without even trying especially hard, I wound up at 50 billion points... ridiculous!! Considering what an excellent game I had just before it, with so many "experiences" throughout, working towards a specific goal, getting a way higher score without even trying, really just going for a single shot over and over again, felt like cheating. I hear you guys, Borg multiball REALLY ruins the table on TPA...

 

[Bowflex]

It is a tough table. You can really get torn up on it, either in real life or tpa. I think it is one of the few tables that more consistently produces cheap drains and has lots of death shots. However, once you get a feel for it, the variety of shots, modes and depth of it all comes across in a really amazing way. Once you start to get good you will realize resistance IS futile and jump on the bandwagon!

 

[ragingpoodle]

What a blasphemous thread! Possibly the best table ever, the one table I wanted to own when I started buying pins and I enjoyed having it. There is no way this pin is overrated, it has everything. Yes it can be hard at times that what makes it all the more rewarding when you have a great game on it. I always play it on the PS3 when I fire up TPA and can't wait to play it on PS4. If they would just get the rights to Demolition Man I will stop worrying about that and all will be happy in my digital pinball world.