Pinball Arcade too easy and unchallenging

[kinggo]

I was mostly refering to " Just stop nudging." I can't.

 

[JavaJack]

I played a real ToTaN last night and it kicked my ass. Even with a misaligned right flipper that made cradles easier on that side, the best I managed in a series of 5 or so games was about 4 million and maybe 3-4 jewels. The real thing is just way more random.

 

[Xanija]

I don't mind if TPA is easier than IRL tables (and yes, it is, probably even on a tablet without a controller attached). I'm having fun with them the way they are. That said, I wouldn't mind if nudging was nerfed.

 

[Shaneus]

So yeah, I think nudging needs to be dialled back, and a lot of the ball returns need to be fixed so you can't just hold the flippers to cradle the ball (even if that is possible in real life). Case in point: High Speed. Either make it so holding the flippers up bounces the ball over the sling into the outlane, or into the sling to push it all over the table. That's where the fun of HS multiball is IRL, and when you can just hold them flips after they eject from the hideouts it takes away a lot of the unpredictability of the game.

indeed.....not
nudging is a part of the game. The problem with nudging on PC (and probably consoles) is that if someone IRL wants to have the same effect as in TPA, that someone would have to throw the pin out of arcade.

Hah, that's a hilarious mental image.

 

[warh0g]

Don't nudge?

 

[soundwave106]

So yeah, I think nudging needs to be dialled back

The best option probably would be a pro mode option that would allow you to scale the nudging.

The problem I see with nudging is that you have to accommodate several types of systems, including mobile. Nudging on mobile is a heck of a lot harder than it is on any system with an analog control (eg PC). Even on PC you have to accommodate several controllers and some are easier than others to nudge.

As far as real life goes... er, I have played real life pins which allow TPA style nudging. Actually *moreso*, pins that don't tilt at all. Which means, yes, you can actually physically slide the pin from side to side and up and down to save the ball. (It's not as hard as you think on say tile floors.) Put it this way, for all the complaints about TPA's nudging, I've done a death save on a couple of real life pinballs. I've never done one on TPA.

Of course, many pins are set to fairly sensitive, and super heavy slide-the-pin type "nudging" (let alone death saves) are not possible. The tilt sensitivity is operator settable, like so many other things. In real life, a pinball with zero tilt sensitivity *is* easier. So many people who want more of a challenge would set up a home pin to be rather sensitive at home to stop them from doing that. (Most pinball tournaments allow very little tilt from what I understand.)

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

(Most pinball tournaments allow very little tilt from what I understand.)

It depends somewhat on the particular machine - drainy tables like Iron Man are usually have their tilts set somewhat more liberally than tables where players have a greater ability to control the ball - but in general most tournament machines will have tilts ranging from merely conservative to truly draconian.

And yes, being able to adjust the nudging - both in terms of its effects on the ball and its effects on the tilt bob - would be very welcome.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

Yeah, there is a giant difference between "nudging" - which is a subtle pop with your hand on the side rail as a ball nears the out/inlanes, and "slamming" - which is what the nudge actually reacts like on TPA. I can nudge all day on my real machines, even with a fairly tight tilt bob. What you can't do, is slam the table so hard the ball jumps, that's an instant slam tilt no matter what the settings. And TPA seem to have it cranked to the 9's, so every "nudge" translates to a "slam" and it's just too easy to keep the ball in play. Playing on mobile, without nudging, is closest to the real thing that TPA gets, IMO.

It should be fairly easy to implement a "nudge slider" but then again, so would multi-controller support and a gamma/light slider too. Hey I'm just happy we got lag-less flippers and legible tables with a decent color contrast/balance recently. I am not holding out hopes that anything else is going to change significantly before, or even after, the new UI update rolls out. Their focus lately doesn't seem to be on accurate gameplay so much as cranking out $5 tables for mobile devices, unfortunately...

 

[SydyneBall]

Is TPA easier than RL? Yes. Does it make TPA less enjoyable for me? No.

Paying in Real life tables you encounter so many more table and environment factors that you just don't have in TPA:
- Dirt /Bumps/ flat areas on tables.
- Levelness of table
- Angle of Table
- Tilt sensitivity.
- Heat (OMG, it was 85 in the back room during league a few weeks ago. Try and play any pinball with sweet streaming down your face.. in TPA.. You can always pause...move somewhere cooler).
- Table smoothness
- Ball spin (Had a ball this week do a tennis serve type spin off the top of the left sling STDM and it gained speed as it drained - T2 machine)
- Standing through multiple games
- Waiting
- Playing other players..
- Etc....


I play in a couple pinball leagues and also a few tournaments a year.
One league has these TPA machines:
- Scared Stiff
- STTNG
- Monster Bash

The other has:
- Championship Pub
- T2

TPA has made me better at playing these table, for the rules, and for avoiding the shots that angle the ball to the outlanes or STDM.

I do find that on the Kindle Fire, without using nudge too much, I get a good simulation of play.
Yes, it's still easier, but I don't think I would have got to "Scared Stiff" or "Moshpit MultiBall', or even get a few Hundred million on STTNG in RL without TPA.

I would like to see TPA have harder tilt sensitivity and less drastic nudging, but overall, it still a great simulation of RL tables.
But it is just that, a perfect world simulation.

 

[Tabe]

I think it's pretty safe to say that Farsight isn't concerned with satisfying the 50 people at the top of the various leaderboards complaining the game is too easy versus accommodating the other 99.9% of their fan base.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Sigh...I know I've said this before, but you don't have to be a top player to want a more realistic experience. I'm nowhere near the top, yet I'd love for them to at least add an option for more realistic nudging. That would be a fantastic starting point towards giving us difficulty options, which they they had at least expressed interest in doing when I interviewed Bobby over a year ago.

But yes, the fact that they seem to have no further interest in doing so leaves me with very little interest in the game any more.

 

[rehtroboi40]

Sigh...I know I've said this before, but you don't have to be a top player to want a more realistic experience. I'm nowhere near the top, yet I'd love for them to at least add an option for more realistic nudging. That would be a fantastic starting point towards giving us difficulty options, which they they had at least expressed interest in doing when I interviewed Bobby over a year ago.

But yes, the fact that they seem to have no further interest in doing so leaves me with very little interest in the game any more.

I, for one, don't really care about difficulty options. I agree with you though on the realistic nudging. Especially on Genie-the nudging scheme on the PS4 version brought me within 48K pts. of the 3M goal. If only nudging had worked correctly then.......

I still find the challenge of completing wizard goals to be quite enough-especially on the Gottlieb table sims. But really the point I get out of TPA is getting to replay classic tables on a legal simulator, where I can suspend my desire for "true realism" that can only be found on a real table. Kudos to FarSight for brining back memories since I'm in a place with few real pinballs, and none in great condition.
If I want closer realism, there's always Zen pinball or the old Pro Pinball series. But that's just me.

 

[DrainoBraino]

Sigh...I know I've said this before, but you don't have to be a top player to want a more realistic experience. I'm nowhere near the top, yet I'd love for them to at least add an option for more realistic nudging. That would be a fantastic starting point towards giving us difficulty options, which they they had at least expressed interest in doing when I interviewed Bobby over a year ago.

But yes, the fact that they seem to have no further interest in doing so leaves me with very little interest in the game any more.

On point here Jeff.

If I want closer realism, there's always Zen pinball or the old Pro Pinball series. But that's just me.

Zen and realism should not be used in the same sentence. Oh wait, I just did. .

 

[Jeff Strong]

Don't get me wrong, TPA is cool for what it is (I really dug it on mobile), but on PC given the choice between TPA or VP/Pro Pinball right now, it's hard to find time to play TPA. I initially thought Farsight would try to cater more to the PC crowd by giving us more options (since the PC players have traditionally been the core pinball players if you look back in time), but beyond adding portrait mode, it's been quantity over quality, and that's nothing against the developers as it boils down to what the management prioritizes. Nothing wrong with chasing the money, but I think they'd make even more by adding in more options/features. That stuff makes money too.

 

[Shaneus]

Don't get me wrong, TPA is cool for what it is (I really dug it on mobile), but on PC given the choice between TPA or VP/Pro Pinball right now, it's hard to find time to play TPA. I initially thought Farsight would try to cater more to the PC crowd by giving us more options (since the PC players have traditionally been the core pinball players if you look back in time), but beyond adding portrait mode, it's been quantity over quality.

I hear you on this. It's incredibly hard to stay away from the VP tables, especially with the physics updates and DX9 versions getting better literally every day. And with most tables looking as good as (if not better, hello Monster Bash) than their TPA counterparts, there's not a lot of value in opening TPA.

If there were things like friend scores and updated lighting on PC I'd be more inclined to play it more often (yeah, maybe this is blackmail) but other than the challenge mode, the PC version has not seen a significant feature update since it came out. Let's not forget the inability to reposition the DMD, either. Not necessarily a big point for me, but I know it's a feature Jeff has been crowing about and shouldn't be at all difficult to implement.

 

[wolfson]

I agree with most of what has been said.i don`t nudge so that aspect doesn`t bother me. as for the lighting it should be upgraded in maybe with a bit of luck in the next 6 months. as for VP tables I have over 700 tables and I must say the majority look great. I alternate between all my devices, at the moment I`m using the ps3 more because the 3d is bloody great !! 2 things I`m waiting on is the new lighting on PC and new tables and 3d on ps4.when I get these I will be very very happy !!! one more thing,i can`t wait for pro pinball,i have read so many good things about it !!!

 

[kristian]

There was already a thread about this:

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/6521-Too-easy-tables-(PC-version)

Yeah... I totally agree. Most tables in the PC version are ridiculously easy and completely ruin the experience for me.

 

[soundwave106]

Yeah, there is a giant difference between "nudging" - which is a subtle pop with your hand on the side rail as a ball nears the out/inlanes, and "slamming" - which is what the nudge actually reacts like on TPA. I can nudge all day on my real machines, even with a fairly tight tilt bob. What you can't do, is slam the table so hard the ball jumps, that's an instant slam tilt no matter what the settings. And TPA seem to have it cranked to the 9's, so every "nudge" translates to a "slam" and it's just too easy to keep the ball in play. Playing on mobile, without nudging, is closest to the real thing that TPA gets, IMO.

I guess to be fair to Farsight, most video pinball nudging I've played is more like what Farsight has, and not like a tight machine. I would expect Visual Pinball (which is more of a pinball fan run project) to be an exception, but most of the commercial projects actually are cranked up higher on the nudging than Farsight is. It's often ridiculously easy to do a bangback / death save type maneuver in many video pinball sims.

This is why I kind of think that what Farsight has as the default is probably okay. Casual players of video pinball, some of who may have little experience with the real thing, may prefer the strong nudging. For those with higher experience, I would think adding the option to tune difficulty wouldn't be too bad, but unfortunately they've got a small dev team and a lot of priorities.

 

[rehtroboi40]

On point here Jeff.


Zen and realism should not be used in the same sentence. Oh wait, I just did. .

Well, I've never had pinballs fly out of the table in Zen, like they have in TPA (MB, CV, and even FT)
Besides, IMO, Zen does have more realistic physics. Now as far as the playfield toys and animations not being realistic, you've got me there.

 

[Zaphod77]

the issue with nudging is they have to accommodate digital nudge. and the only way to make digital nudge useful is to make it a slam, and make it not give an immediate warning. Unfortunately if you make digital nudge a slam and no warning that makes analog nudge totally awesome. But it's the only way to make digital nudge useful.

So there's really nothing they can do to fix this, save not letting you slap save without a controller.