Pinball in Real Life Questions

[Rich Lehmann]

I have been playing a lot of real world pinball lately because an arcade opened in downtown LA with a lot of tables including several from TPA (TAF, T2, WW, AFM, MM, TZ, FH and Taxi). The ball seems much larger in real life and way heavier. Could they be using much larger balls or would it be that the flippers are weak? They play completely different.

 

[Fungi]

The balls seem larger because unless you are using a huge monitor for TPA, you are just accustomed to the size of the simulation. Also, since TPA is striving to replicate a fresh new table experience, the flippers IRL are going to feel old/weak, because they are.

 

[Rich Lehmann]

I don't know about the size thing, then the flippers would seem bigger in real life too. Plus the ball moves slower and is easier to catch in real life. It just seems heavier.

 

[Fungi]

Your original post asked if in the real world, "Could they be using much larger balls or would it be that the flippers are weak?". Since the real tables are the real tables, I propose you ask the opposite question.

Are TPA's balls too small with overly powerful flippers? This might actually be the case.

 

[trunchbull]

If you've tried the TPA tables with the new physics you'll find that they're much closer to real pinball, particularly with the ball that feels heavier and almost bigger (though all pinballs are the same size). The tables with older physics are quicker, lighter, and way too easy, for sure, but real tables (duh) also suffer wear and tear, particularly in the weakening of the flippers, which can be frustrating (and even render the table unplayable). As for them playing differently, that's just because they're real and TPA isn't - TPA chooses one of a number of paths for your ball to travel, while in real life the number of possible trajectories for your pinball is essentially infinite.

 

[wizard33]

I noticed that in TPA, the ball almost never quits the table (it rolls in 2d), maybe except in Champion Pub with the boxing challenge.
In real pinball, the ball with some speed and effects will go against gravity: in 1 minute of play, the ball can make 2 or 3 jumps, having a "fuse" effect" or something and other odd behaviours not in TPA

 

[soundwave106]

I don't know about the size thing, then the flippers would seem bigger in real life too. Plus the ball moves slower and is easier to catch in real life. It just seems heavier.

In real life, tables have an adjustable slope. Some operators adjust them to play pretty slow, some operators adjust them to play very fast.

In real life, tables may or not be maintained. As flippers age, they weaken. Playfields get dirty and that also slows the ball down.

Digital pinball at this point is not going to 100% replicate the real pinball experience even if everything was equal. TPA's flippers tend to be more powerful than the real thing, and not quite as "organic" for a lack of a better word.

 

[vikingerik]

What's missing in TPA is the effect of ball mass on the flipper. A flipper should move slower when there is a ball (or multiple) weighing down on it. TPA's flippers ignore this and follow the same path at the same speed regardless of any balls they contact. That's why TPA's flippers feel so stiff and the ball feels light compared to real ones.

TPA also has no ball spin, which also contributes perceptually in this area. A spinning ball contacting and reacting to the flipper rubber also feels weighty in a way that TPA doesn't even try to recreate.

This sort of thing can be simulated in very fine detail. The degree that a ball presses into the flipper rubber matters for the feel of real machines, especially when the rubber ages and dirties to become stiffer. This can be simulated and Pro Pinball did nearly twenty years ago, but TPA hasn't tried.

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

What's missing in TPA is the effect of ball mass on the flipper.

At least the ball mass is to low in TPA. Yesterday I've played a few Timeshock Ultra games. What a heavy ball. There's a difference for example in TZ with the powerball compared to a regular ball. I would not say TPA considered the mass in no way.

 

[Jeff Strong]

As for size, I've always felt that the ball in TPA seems a bit too small since day 1. All you have to do is compare the game to real life videos to see the difference. We've had this discussion in the past and one explanation was that the default reflection/shading on the ball in TPA makes it appear a bit smaller.

In regards to physics, Viking nailed it.