PS3 input lag issue

[bavelb]

This issue is widely reported but disputed, I figured it deserves it's own thread as naysayers are slowly coming around.

I have been playing TOTAN almost exclusively over the weekend so you can say I'm very acquinted with the feel of the table, and something just felt off when are trying to hit the outer lanes (HAREM/Tiger/ROC loops) or when trying to make quick saves.

I changed a few things around and things indeed felt a lot "snappier". After readjusting to the more accurate timings, I almost doubled my score from 112 million to 196ish, fought the genie in the last mode twice (previously never came further than 10/11 jewels total, now aroun 18) and kept my multiballs in play a lot longer. Score couldve been a bit higher if my controller didnt die the second to last ball....

The strange thing? I didnt swap consoles, I swapped monitors. From TV (game mode and all other options off) through HDMI to a pc monitor with HDMI and a DVI extension. Go figure....

So 2 options remain: either the HDMI cable is affecting the videotransfer (the one running to my monitor is a different one) or the TV has something else causing a slight lag. I will test further once I have my tv available again when the wife is done with Greys anatomy and desperate housewives....

ps: I locked my ps3 into playing at 720p on both monitors, didnt help the TV situation.

 

[jrolson]

Comment from Farsight,

"The lag issues some users experience on the PS3 are usually related to settings on your television. We hate lag and work to minimize it as much as possible- with the proper TV settings the lag on PS3 should be no worse than the other platforms."

 

[bavelb]

And my testing proves they are correct as there is no lag between ps3 and pc monitor.

However that doesn't mean we can't narrow it down further

 

[Jeff Strong]

I was one of those who didn't notice any lag at first, but now I'm having second thoughts..

I've been playing the PS3 version exclusively, but tonight I fired up the 360 version after not playing it since the PS3 version came out.....and I don't know if this is just a coincidence but with just one ball on TOTAN, I was able to beat the Genie and rescue the princess, and I doubled my PS3 high score....I didn't think I was getting any lag on PS3, but I've noticed that TOTAN has really been beating me up lately, so maybe the slight lag is the reason why (even though I don't physically see it)....the 360 version doesn't look nearly as nice, but if it plays smoother then I gotta stick with it......gameplay >>> graphics.

I'm going to continue testing it.

 

[Dumahim]

I don't buy it. I was so crushed when I bought the game and right away noticed the lag and was doing terribly. I probably played 20 minutes before I gave up. The next day I downloaded the demo on the 360 and could easily tell it was better and was as responsive as I would ever expect. I have always had all those extra features turned off. I want the natural video to come through and not what the TV processes.

I know I'm not the only one here who has switched back and forth between the 360 and PS3 version with the extact same settings and clearly noticed a difference. If it was the TV, it should feel the same on both systems, but that's not what we're seeing. I'm not trying to say it's the game's fault. Maybe it's due to the PS3. But I think it's wrong to say it's the TV when it can be clearly demonstrated there's a difference between the two systems.

About the only thing I can try to rule out is the PS3's HDMI. I know I have component cables somewhere, but I'll need to do some digging to test with those.

 

[btmmayor]

"with the proper TV settings the lag on PS3 should be no worse than the other platforms."

Should be no worse? Very disappointing to hear that from Farsight. Same Tv, same settings the ps3 lags while my 360 version does not.

I also tried experimenting with standard cables instead of hdmi with no luck.

 

[bavelb]

Ive done some further testing and had my ps3 put out sound on 2 outputs: 1 through hdmi and 1 through the standard cables. In xmb you can have them output sound at the same time. Between the 2 there is a slight delay on the hdmi compared to the analog output:
When I press the flipper the analog output plays the click of the flipper first with the hdmi producing a small echo, as if the sound is played slightly later.

e: swapped out hdmi cables, same ****. And ofc all this done with Game settings on and all other eco/processing features off.

 

[Dumahim]

Yeah, found my component cables and it wasn't any better. If anything, it actually felt ever so slightly worse, but it was really tough to tell.

In the end though, if this is the route Farsight is going to take, fine. I'll wait until the 360 version gets it's update and wait to hear some feedback on that. If the extra money can go towards securing the licenses they need to get some some badass tables, I'm ok with it (even though I really shouldn't be, but I guess I'm just really itching for some pinball).

 

[Mike]

I was one of those who didn't notice any lag at first, but now I'm having second thoughts

I was just thinking this too. A friend and I were playing some ToM this weekend. She has TPA and the dlc on her Galaxy S2 Epic, knows the tables and has some decent scores. Shots were rolling off the end of the ends of her flippers every time. She usually beats me on the real life tables. I wondered if I wasn't just used to the early timing. She's the second person that came over and gave up after the first game. My scores are way higher on iOS and I feel Like they go where I expect them to go. I'm definitely not hitting my shots or controlling the ball as well on ps3.

 

[RetroBlast]

I'm not getting any lag here, not that I can notice anyway. My PS3 is always hooked up to my 23 inch 1080 HDMI PC MONITOR. I ALWAYS HAVE IT HOOKED UP VIA AN HDMI cable. After using a PC screen, its tough for me to look at a game on a TV.

 

[btmmayor]

I just really hope its not the advanced lighting in the ps3 version causing the lag. I guess we will find out once the dlc hits the 360. If the 360 version stays lag free with the new lighting I will have no reason to ever turn on the PS3 version again. Since I really only have the PS3 version because of the Vita, I will be a happy camper if that's the case.

Its just a shame in the meantime as the PS3 pinball arcade looks SO good.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Stupid question time: Is this something that could be fixed with a calibration mode, as found in Guitar Hero and other games where precise input timing is important? Just put "Flipper Calibration" or somesuch in that Table Setup menu and have it drop a pinball across a line 5 or 10 times; player flips when s/he sees ball touch line. Game then adjusts display timing to account for lag, ball is now where players think it is, players are happy and no longer have to futz around with a multitude of TV settings and cables.

Not sure if this is technically possible since there are complex and time-sensitive physics calculations going on in-game that perhaps would be thrown off by a calibration adjustment, but it seems like an obvious place for FarSight to start looking.

 

[jrolson]

Rockband has auto & manual calibration settings for audio and video, so I dont see why Farsight cant do just the video calibration...

It's something Farsight should look into for such a game that relies on perfect timing...

 

[smbhax]

I've been playing the PS3 version of Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection back-to-back with The Pinball Arcade on the same hardware, and TPA definitely plays a little more sluggishly...once in a while. When I quit and restart, it's usually back to normal. Strange.

 

[Dumahim]

Rockband has auto & manual calibration settings for audio and video, so I dont see why Farsight cant do just the video calibration...

It's something Farsight should look into for such a game that relies on perfect timing...

I think the only problem with that is you know what's coming with Rock Band and it isn't going to change. TBA, the direction of the ball changes depending on your action and you'll still have to deal with the reaction delay.

 

[ScotchYeti]

It's all very weird. Maybe Farsight should add some kind of Turbo mode so that the frames are not synced with the tv?! Would probably look worse but at least you would get the max. possible framerate.

Buying a new tv just to play TPA is out of question at the moment...

 

[Mike]

I've said it before but I notice a bit of lag with the Williams Collection as well. Very slight and I was able to adjust my timing. I didn't even notice until my friend was over who's a monster on the real pins. He couldn't get into it due to the lag. After that I noticed it more but I can still rock on the WC. I'm not sure if the lag is actually worse than my other games, or if the accuracy needed for pinball just makes it seem more noticeable. Hopefully they can do something to reduce this as I love playing with the controller. Right now though, iOS is the smoothest version for me.

 

[2n2]

I'm not usually sensitive to minor lag, and I play fighters and Rock Band a lot. However, I too noticed the control lag, especially after just playing the 360 and Vita versions. It's there and noticeable. I don't think all the people who feel it are crazy. It's too many.

 

[Kumquats]

Comment from Farsight,

"The lag issues some users experience on the PS3 are usually related to settings on your television. We hate lag and work to minimize it as much as possible- with the proper TV settings the lag on PS3 should be no worse than the other platforms."

This is very true, but given that users experience different levels of lag on the same display when the same settings and input types are used, it's less likely to be the case.

The lag issue could also be input handling, back buffer management and or how many frames they are buffering (game or rendering code). In terms of rendering, if the game operated fully synchronously (game code and rendering code) with at most a double buffer back buffer configuration, then the input lag would be minimal. I wonder if they are triple buffering to help with frame rates a bit and maintaining vsync? I would imagine frame rate should be less of an issue though considering what they are rendering.

Maybe they have a post-process that is a frame behind?

Those are just assumptions, but their code team may want to find the real answers at some point. The lag is extremely annoying compared to the PS Vita and Android ports.

 

[Silverball]

noticed lag

Equipment -
Sony HX series TV
PS3 Slim (160)
HDMI Cables

I am a fairly aggressive pinball player and flipper timing and flipper function is quite critical to my game play. I have played Theater of Magic (one of my all time favorites), Black Hole, and Tales of the Arabian Nights hundreds of times at shows/conventions and arcades all across the country. With that being said my first impression of the PS3 Pinball Arcade tables is quite mixed. Table selection, sound and graphics are stunning and quite fantastic. The thing that ruins the experience is the lag in the controls, it's like trying to play a broken pinball machine. It leaves you with a bad feeling that makes you want to walk away.

Flipper/controller lag is pretty terrible (I don't think I would recommend this PS3 version to my pinball playing friends). If there was a way of calibrating the timing, it would help. The return speed of the flipper (after you let go of the button) is also too slow and does not recover fast enough when re-engaging the flipper button. I even noticed that when entering my initials on the record boards, if you tap the controller buttons quickly to scroll left or right, there is a ton of lag.

I am still looking forward to the release of the next batch of tables and hopefully there will be a patch/update to help resolve this soon...