Question about how Farsight tracks table sales

[Kolchak357]

If you play the free table of the month, but don't actually own it, does it still post a score to the leaderboards?

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Another factor (that still won't be enough to explain the discrepancy) is that some people got TAF Gold on multiple platforms and you can't use their Farsight IDs on PSN. So some users might have two scores posted.

Still doesn't account for there being more than 10x the number of scores as there were backers. At most there should be (1 x $100 backers) + (5 x $150+ backers) scores out there. And there were only something like a dozen backers who gave more than $150, so even if they got even more TAF Gold codes, that number would be insignificant.

The only reason I can think of is the accidental release of TAF Gold. It's easy enough to see how - if you have both versions, the default is to start in Gold mode, so if you just blindly select TAF and start a game, you're playing Gold. You have to consciously remember to go into the options and switch back to Regular. So when Gold was out there by accident, chances are a whole lot of people playing on "autopilot" just played Gold games and probably didn't even notice.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

If you play the free table of the month, but don't actually own it, does it still post a score to the leaderboards?

No. Otherwise I'm sure we'd see ve's scores on Dracula and HRC somewhere in the Top 10 (those being two tables I know he's played as free tables of the month).

 

[Biff]

There is an awkward but important question.
What about the illegal warez version?
I don't know anything about it, only that it exists, because I have seen users on this forum who were talking about it.
Maybe it contains TafG and posts scores on the leaderboard too.

 

[invitro]

The only reason I can think of is the accidental release of TAF Gold. It's easy enough to see how - if you have both versions, the default is to start in Gold mode, so if you just blindly select TAF and start a game, you're playing Gold. You have to consciously remember to go into the options and switch back to Regular. So when Gold was out there by accident, chances are a whole lot of people playing on "autopilot" just played Gold games and probably didn't even notice.

This would explain the TAFG number completely to me, except for the possibly big problem that the webpage doesn't have any TAFG score for me at all. However, it is possible that I didn't complete any games. I was focused on getting screenshots.

FWIW, my TAFG screenshots are dated 2015-04-30 and 2015-05-01.

It might be valuable if someone will claim that they don't own TAFG, and also have a leaderboard entry for it. (Tarek had the #1 TAFG score from 2015-05-12 to 2015-05-16; it was deleted after that. But this may have been from his imposter that had several scores up around the same time. Tarek posted about it; he doesn't own TAFG, but I don't remember if he said he had thought he'd been playing TAF, or wasn't playing TAF then. I think this example is just the impostor, probably never mind.)

In any case, a problem with TAFG doesn't affect the other tables...

 

[invitro]

There is an awkward but important question.
What about the illegal warez version?
I don't know anything about it, only that it exists, because I have seen users on this forum who were talking about it.
Maybe it contains TafG and posts scores on the leaderboard too.

Well... what about it?

 

[invitro]

No. Otherwise I'm sure we'd see ve's scores on Dracula and HRC somewhere in the Top 10 (those being two tables I know he's played as free tables of the month).

Yes. v.e. doesn't have any score at all on those tables on his webpage. Surely he's played some he doesn't own as demos, too, which would rule out the possibility of getting on the leaderboard with them.

This would mean that the numbers really do represent (minima of) -sales-, modulo TotAN and TAFG, and hopefully I'm not forgetting anything else important...

 

[Biff]

Well... what about it?

It could destroy your leaderboard sale number speculations and could explain the high TafG numbers.

 

[invitro]

Here's the results (again apologies for any bad formatting - sorted high to low):
Cirqus Voltaire 94143
FunHouse 65128

I'm wondering if there's something funny here, because these two are in the same table pack. It seems impossible that ~1/3 of the people buying it would never play FH even once. I know there are/were leaderboard problems with FH on PSN, maybe it's related... I know I'm stabbing in the dark here.

The BH number looks like it might be too low to me also. Were there also leaderboard problems with BH or am I misremembering?

 

[Fungi]

Considering the past 20 posts, perhaps the leaderboards are not a good metric.

 

[invitro]

It destroys your sale number speculations and could explain the high TafG numbers.

Perhaps, though that word "destroys", ouch. I don't think I believe that the fraction of scores that came from cracked games is all that high, it's gotta be at least under 10%. But I'm just speculating. You have a good point. Maybe someone daring can get hold of a cracked game and see if they can make a new Farsight account and post a TAFG score. I'm way too afraid of losing TPA access to try it myself... I'm kind of afraid of losing access just for suggesting it. So never mind, I take it back.

The ratios of the sales figures are what's interesting to me, more than the counts, even the minima.

There are I presume many people who buy TPA and play it without ever logging in... those people would not be in the leaderboard. I have not even a wild guess how many of those people there are. Maybe someone can ask Bobby King what fraction of TPA owners play while being logged in.

 

[invitro]

Considering the past 20 posts, perhaps the leaderboards are not a good metric.

Another definition issue... metric of what? I think they can potentially* be a good metric of ratio of sales of tables, if corrective measures for certain tables & seasons are taken. It does look like saying these numbers accurately reflect actual sales may take some serious arguing.

I'm not thinking very well right now, but when I've looked at these numbers in the past, my main takeaway was that table quality/reputation didn't seem to matter much (except for the Kickstarted tables), but whether a table was DMD or AND/ND matters a ton. To me, this was something which can be seen from this data, but was not suggested without it. I'm not saying that's right, though... I've wanted to regress the number of leaderboard scores against a few variables and see, but I haven't had enough tuits yet.

* Even if the appropriate corrective measures are not known now, they might be later.

 

[Fungi]

Barometer? Ruler? Measuring thingy?

Considering the noise and uproar for TAF, I'm not at all impressed with its numbers.

 

[Gorgar]

I'm wondering if there's something funny here, because these two are in the same table pack. It seems impossible that ~1/3 of the people buying it would never play FH even once. I know there are/were leaderboard problems with FH on PSN, maybe it's related... I know I'm stabbing in the dark here.

The BH number looks like it might be too low to me also. Were there also leaderboard problems with BH or am I misremembering?

Black Hole had a different leaderboard on PS3 (unless they fixed this recently.)

Before the Central Park/Cactus Canyon pack it used to be possible to buy tables individually on mobile platforms. (That explains the Funhouse/Criqus Volatire discrepancy, but not for all of the later season 2 tables that were packed together.)

 

[invitro]

Black Hole had a different leaderboard on PS3 (unless they fixed this recently.)

Before the Central Park/Cactus Canyon pack it used to be possible to buy tables individually on mobile platforms. (That explains the Funhouse/Criqus Volatire discrepancy, but not for all of the later season 2 tables that were packed together.)

Awesome, thanks for the info.

I can believe that 10% or less 2-pack buyers never played one of the two tables.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

More slice-n-dice, this time in table pack order. TOTAN is #-1 since it's free on all platforms. ToM/RBION/BH are pack 0 and are included in the iOS "paid" version, but not in the "free" version on iOS, or in any other version on any other platform (as far as I know).

-1 Tales of the Arabian Nights 1071733
0 Theatre Of Magic 267050
0 Ripleys Believe It Or Not 261872
0 Black Hole 74937
1 Medieval Madness 122601
1 Bride of Pin-Bot 112191
2 Cirqus Voltaire 94143
2 FunHouse 65128
3 Monster Bash 85613
3 Gorgar 81324
4 Creature of the Black Lagoon 86459
4 Black Knight 80650
5 Harley Davidson (3rd Edition) 79685
5 Taxi 78662
6 No Good Gofers 83094
6 Elvira and the Party Monsters 80675
7 Big Shot 79480
7 Elvira Scared Stiff 77865
8 Twilight Zone 90419
9 Star Trek, Next Generation 96778
10 Attack From Mars 99575
10 Genie 70023
11 Dr. Dude 33314
11 Firepower 31424
12 Cactus Canyon 37918
12 Central Park 32605
13 White Water 38737
13 Space Shuttle 33136
14 Centaur 32393
14 Pin-Bot 32376
15 Champion Pub 35058
15 Whirlwind 32715
16 Flight 2000 25076
16 Goin Nuts 24366
17 Terminator 2 : Judgement Day 49356
18 Haunted House 31337
18 Teed Off 28662
19 Class Of 1812 26214
19 Victory 25875
20 Cue Ball Wizard 26165
20 El Dorado : City Of Gold 23370
21 Fish Tales 23651
22 Black Rose 23038
23 Black Knight 2000 18641
24 WHO dunnit? 21485
25 High-Speed 18398
26 JunkYard 20382
27 Lights... Camera... Action! 15140
28 High Roller Casino 17291
29 Diner 15613
30 Bram Stokers Dracula 20723
31 Phantom Of The Opera 12534
32 Party Zone 11208
33 EarthShaker 11165
34 Starship Troopers 12624
35 Addams Family 26871
35 Addams Family : Gold Edition 4576
36 Cyclone 9055
37 Jack-Bot 8474
38 Xenon 8882
39 Red & Teds Roadshow 5987
40 SafeCracker 5515
40 SafeCracker Assault on the Vault 1300
41 The Getaway : High Speed 2 3575

 

[vikingerik]

Yes. v.e. doesn't have any score at all on those tables on his webpage. Surely he's played some he doesn't own as demos, too, which would rule out the possibility of getting on the leaderboard with them.

Right, can confirm both of those from personal experience, neither free-table nor demo scores will post to the leaderboard.

 

[Tann]

Blackhole and FunHouse leaderboards are still broken on PS3. Basically, PS3/Vita highscores are not listed on the website leaderboards.

Part of the S4 drop-off is likely to have a couple of reasons:
1. Not all of S4 is available on PS3/4/Vita yet, so there may well be users of those systems holding off on getting S4 passes until then. (Of course the same goes for X360/XONE as well, but those scores don't contribute to the numbers I listed.)

This. A lot of PS3/Vita users didn't purchased the S4 pass for one reason: the pass have been released almost 10 months ago (at this time, three S4 tables were already available on mobiles/PC), and there are only 5 S4 tables released so far on PS3 (TAF is the last one).

It's no more a season pass, it's a long-term investment.

 

[invitro]

This. A lot of PS3/Vita users didn't purchased the S4 pass for one reason: the pass have been released almost 10 months ago (at this time, three S4 tables were already available on mobiles/PC), and there are only 5 S4 tables released so far on PS3 (TAF is the last one).

It's no more a season pass, it's a long-term investment.

Maybe consider it a preorder? I hear those are trendy in real pinball.

 

[Tann]

Maybe consider it a preorder? I hear those are trendy in real pinball.

Yeah!

Or as a permanent Kickstarter campaign. Contribute by purchasing a Season Pass on PS3/Vita and maybe the tables will be released someday. ^^