Request to Farsight: Stop releasing updates until you have basic testing down

[Kaoru]

Just had yet another good going game running short because of a bug. And it was one of those "camera stuck to some object on the table"-multiball bugs which seems to plague all of the releases so far.

Want to hear my suggestion, Farsight? Stop doing those wonky camera things altogether. That's one huge cause for bugs erased in an instant.

 

[Jan Duin]

yeah I agree jared. I've reported a few issues during beta that FS have even acknowledged and reproduced............................. but don't have the time/resource to fix. As more tables are released these issues are building up. Just a little frustrating as kinda makes you think why bother testing.

Make that: Releasing bug-free tables are not a priority for FS. As has been the case with several android betas, bugs were pointed out by the forum testers but FS nevertheless took the decision to release the candidate with bugs.

Another thing that worries me is a line from PiN WiZ' latest news update: "FarSight is currently investigating what they can and can't do and what Sony will allow them to do as it pertains to patching Table Add-Ons with bug fixes and improvements."

Does this mean that FS is not sure whether it is allowed to fix previously released DLC at all? What if Sony doesn't allow them?

Sure TPA is playable in its current state but it could have been soo much better!

 

[shutyertrap]

Another thing that worries me is a line from PiN WiZ' latest news update: "FarSight is currently investigating what they can and can't do and what Sony will allow them to do as it pertains to patching Table Add-Ons with bug fixes and improvements."

Does this mean that FS is not sure whether it is allowed to fix previously released DLC at all? What if Sony doesn't allow them?

I think this has more to do with what kind of patch Sony will allow. One way FarSight could keep the download file size low would be to have customers go in and delete the file themselves from the PS3 so that the new version of the table would replace it. Kind of like how if you want to fix the top 5 table score bug you have to delete your save file. Problem is, Sony doesn't really want to ask it's customers to do something like that. Too much potential for screwing something else up. So perhaps FarSight is looking for a special exemption from Sony.

 

[DopedToInfinity]

If FS can't recreate it, they can't fix it. Help 'em out, be an at home tester. The fact of the matter is, they are not going to slow down, the vast majority of TPA players could care less about bugs

I understand your where you are coming from, and as an IOS user I find the table packs VERY reasonably priced, so I will keep buying them. (Cheaper than a pint for two tables is a bargain). I find myself playing Zen more now which is something I never saw happening as I am a sucker for the REAL pinball tables, but I find Zen a more solid, less buggy experience.

Reasonably priced or not, why should we be home testers? I don't mind reporting bugs, and I realise bugs slip into any game but when you are paying for something you don't expect too many bugs.

I think the table packs for TPA are a steal at their current price and I would gladly pay twice the price for a "nearly" bug-free table pack.

 

[shutyertrap]

When I say 'home tester', all I'm really saying is to try document and see if you can consistently repeat what causes the bug.

There have been many bugs I've never seen at all, others that appear quite frequently. I think a lot of the reason for variances is we all play the tables differently. There was a table that the way I played, I never let the ball have a chance to bounce a certain way 'cause I was always nudging beforehand. After reading about someone else's strategies, I stopped nudging. Well, soon after I noticed that I was consistently seeing a certain phenomenon on the table I had never noticed before.

What may always happen for you may not always happen for someone else because your play styles differ. That is why testing for pinball is so difficult, the shear amount of variety possible. So take note, try and recreate the bug. If you notice a string of events that leads up to it, write those events up. Saying the ball always goes through the side of the machine is not helpful, but saying that during x,y, or z mode with two balls on the table this always happens, then there's at least a place for FS to start looking. And yes, game revision numbers, system update numbers, those can play a factor too.

 

[smbhax]

Just had yet another good going game running short because of a bug. And it was one of those "camera stuck to some object on the table"-multiball bugs which seems to plague all of the releases so far.

Want to hear my suggestion, Farsight? Stop doing those wonky camera things altogether. That's one huge cause for bugs erased in an instant.

Feel free to help test a potential workaround for stuck camera problems. ; )

 

[brakel]

When I say 'home tester', all I'm really saying is to try document and see if you can consistently repeat what causes the bug.

There have been many bugs I've never seen at all, others that appear quite frequently. I think a lot of the reason for variances is we all play the tables differently. There was a table that the way I played, I never let the ball have a chance to bounce a certain way 'cause I was always nudging beforehand. After reading about someone else's strategies, I stopped nudging. Well, soon after I noticed that I was consistently seeing a certain phenomenon on the table I had never noticed before.

What may always happen for you may not always happen for someone else because your play styles differ. That is why testing for pinball is so difficult, the shear amount of variety possible. So take note, try and recreate the bug. If you notice a string of events that leads up to it, write those events up. Saying the ball always goes through the side of the machine is not helpful, but saying that during x,y, or z mode with two balls on the table this always happens, then there's at least a place for FS to start looking. And yes, game revision numbers, system update numbers, those can play a factor too.

Just to add to what shutyertrap is saying...

When you start any particular table you start at the same known state. Think of that as a room with many doors. Each door represents an event that is an event that happens in the ROM emulation. That might be hitting a rollover switch, a target, a ramp, hitting a skill shot, etc. When you complete any event its like opening that door and walking into a room with a bunch of doors. Next event, next door, next room. Add on top of that you might play multiple games without restarting the table. Now you might have gone through a million doors on your way to this room. A bug can be this complex. It might happen only when you've maxed the multiplier on your third multiball, but it seems to you that it happens every third multiball because you always max your multiplier then.

 

[Storm Chaser]

I can see the point of not fixing bugs since it does not bring any money into the bank. At the moment it does not really cost them anything.

But what I can't understand is why they the take the time(=money) update, for example, Dr Dude with a pointless jumping thingy instead of fixing the camera issue.

I would say there are no game breaking bugs (anymore) but there are several bugs that pretty much eliminates the fun of the game since it will crash your game once it starts going well and disallow you to complete goals and high scores.

But it can't be easy for Farsight either. Some players are really vocal about the art issues which I (and I play a LOT) don't care the least about.

 

[Korven]

I would say there are no game breaking bugs (anymore) but there are several bugs that pretty much eliminates the fun of the game since it will crash your game once it starts going well and disallow you to complete goals and high scores.

Well, we still have the vanishing ball in TZ during multiball. Total game breaker.

 

[brakel]

Well, we still have the vanishing ball in TZ during multiball. Total game breaker.

It depends on how you define "game breaker". If it breaks TPA as a whole such that you have to reset the PS3 or the game force quits to the XMB then that's bad. That's a game breaker. If it merely breaks your in pinball game in session such that you have to hit start and quit to the menu then that is just annoying but not what I would consider a game breaker...unless it is so bad that you can never finish a game.

 

[smooverr]

Can anyone remember the last time ANY bug was fixed?? I mean if they've had bug persisting for a year is it really feasible to think they're EVER going back? At this point each pack I buy is a gamble and I know it. I take it as is and play it bugs and all. I know they have neither the time nor the inclination to go back and fix it when they've already made their money on said table. But the fact that they continue to release NEW tables with the same old bugs WILL catch up to them eventually.

This isn't a vocal minority. We've all spent hard earned money for a product that while very entertaining, is also poorly thrown together (look no further than the UI for proof of this).

I'd be interested to see if their sales have dipped in the last few months.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Can anyone remember the last time ANY bug was fixed??

About a week ago. 25-001: Central area near sheriff's badge exhibits odd physics behavior

 

[Korven]

It depends on how you define "game breaker". If it breaks TPA as a whole such that you have to reset the PS3 or the game force quits to the XMB then that's bad. That's a game breaker. If it merely breaks your in pinball game in session such that you have to hit start and quit to the menu then that is just annoying but not what I would consider a game breaker...unless it is so bad that you can never finish a game.

Im on android and had the TZ bug the other week. Ball vanishing on 2nd power ball mania, call attendent did nothing, ball search did nothing, ended up tilting and it didn't feed the next ball to plunger. Won't touch TZ again after that.

 

[smbhax]

Yeah it looks like Android has had a few fixes lately. FarSight are currently balking at pushing table fixes out on PS3 because they'd have to bloat the game update size permanently with the table content, apparently. I think most of us wish they'd just pull the trigger and bite the bullet on that one!

EDIT: Oh, and the ball-through-the-flipper fix seems to have reached PS3 in the most recent update, although you can still do it by deflecting a ball off another ball close to the flippers, apparently.

 

[smooverr]

About a week ago. 25-001: Central area near sheriff's badge exhibits odd physics behavior

Sorry I meant on the consoles I'm also on iOS and I know they patch that all the time. Just looking for some equality here. I realize they have their issues with Sony (not to mention MS), but come on!!!!

 

[Sean]

The policies of a console maker aren't easily worked around, unfortunately. Nintendo was (in)famous for not allowing patches for WiiWare games barring exceptional circumstances which meant some games ended up with control issues that could have been addressed after the fact, but just couldn't be.

I suspect that PS3 owners might end up having to upgrade to PS4 before some of their issues get addressed. It sucks, but it's not really Farsight's fault if they can't easily get a patch rolled out.

 

[Metalzoic]

It sucks, but it's not really Farsight's fault if they can't easily get a patch rolled out.

I disagree. It is totally and completely 100% Farsights fault since they are knowingly releasing these tables with issues.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Sorry I meant on the consoles I'm also on iOS and I know they patch that all the time. Just looking for some equality here. I realize they have their issues with Sony (not to mention MS), but come on!!!!

MM got a big update on PS3 not too long ago. Black Hole as well.

 

[yuriijos]

Fix the exit on the right loop of Attack from Mars please. It is very annoying when the ball exits the right loop and bounces off the rail like something is there. FIX IT!!

 

[superballs]

I can only comment on this for Android (Nexus 7 and Note 2) but the only time I notice this happen is when i nudge toward the wall (having the opposite effect of knocking the ball off the wall).

This loop is a big part of my AFM strategy so I shoot it a lot.