SPA VR for Oculus Rift

[FarSight_Matt]

Oh, hey Matt. You are still around, nice. Do the L1/R1 buttons work now? Some people can't play this otherwise.

I check the forums at least once a day, most days. I have no info about VR Stern, it's a project I've been completely disconnected from. I don't even know who's on it.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

I have no info about VR Stern, it's a project I've been completely disconnected from. I don't even know who's on it.

That level of opacity has got to be pretty hard to accomplish in a company as small as Farsight!

 

[blindpeser]

I check the forums at least once a day, most days. I have no info about VR Stern, it's a project I've been completely disconnected from. I don't even know who's on it.

Maybe you could find out who is in involved and let him know about this issue. Otherwise some people have to skip this game.

 

[FarSight_Matt]

Maybe you could find out who is in involved and let him know about this issue. Otherwise some people have to skip this game.

But I'm not support or QA. 99% of the time it's a problem of not enough time or resources and not an issue of not knowing the issues.

That level of opacity has got to be pretty hard to accomplish in a company as small as Farsight!

I'm not involved with that project, why would I need to know?

 

[blindpeser]

But I'm not supporter or QA. 99% of the time it's a problem of not enough time or resources and not an issue of not knowing the issues.

I know it isnt your fault. But I am not sure if it is the right strategy to release games that have a lot of bugs inside and to know about the bugs but dont fix em. I see a lot of problems there. At first you get no excellent rating for the game. SPA got on all platform I know mediocre ratings. This means that a lot of people that were interested in it doesnt like it and do not spend more money until the bugs are gone. Bad ratings keep people away that could have been interested, if it was good (had good ratings). And last but not least Farsights reputation gets another damage with every buggy release. In the end a lot of potential customers do not even care for your next releases, they just expect buggy crap. I guess you know what I try to tell, Farsight is losing money with each release. And this is a shame, 95% of the parts of the games are good/great. You just need to fix the bugs, tell everyone you did so and ask people to revise their ratings. Thanks for listening to me. I know that nothing will happen/change.

 

[MBeeching]

Astonishingly Gold Bar prices increase when you level up, players are essentially punished for playing and gaining experience! Several people mentioned 1000 tokens (which I presumed was a typo) but mine just increased to 2250, moving the goal posts in this manner is incredibly insulting.

Gold cost per level:
Level 1 - 1000
Level 2 - 1250
Level 3 - 1500
Level 24 - 6750
Level 49 - 13000

This mechanism effectively prevents players getting close to a free table then attempting to use tokens to cover the balance. It would cost you roughly $5-$10 to buy the last one which is similar to buying the table outright. It also makes LE's even more costly and difficult to obtain, by level 5 the price has already doubled so reaching level 50 is your only strategy.

I'd love to see the spreadsheet and formulas which have been implemented to prevent players unlocking a free table. If you've got nothing better to do with your life the best course of action is staying at level 1 and exchange log-in rewards for as many gold bars as possible, it will likely save you time in the long run.

 

[LeRoy3rd]

Astonishingly Gold Bar prices increase when you level up, players are essentially punished for playing and gaining experience! Several people mentioned 1000 tokens (which I presumed was a typo) but mine just increased to 2250, moving the goal posts in this manner is incredibly insulting.

Gold cost per level:
Level 1 - 1000
Level 2 - 1250
Level 3 - 1500
Level 24 - 6750
Level 49 - 13000

This mechanism effectively prevents players getting close to a free table then attempting to use tokens to cover the balance. It would cost you roughly $5-$10 to buy the last one which is similar to buying the table outright. It also makes LE's even more costly and difficult to obtain, by level 5 the price has already doubled so reaching level 50 is your only strategy.

I'd love to see the spreadsheet and formulas which have been implemented to prevent players unlocking a free table. If you've got nothing better to do with your life the best course of action is staying at level 1 and exchange log-in rewards for as many gold bars as possible, it will likely save you time in the long run.

Infuriating, but not surprising... I was also confused with people posting that bars were 2000 tokens, while it's still 1,000 in mine. I figured it was a typo, this is way worse. Farsight REALLY knows how to insult their (prior) fans.

-LeRoy3rd

 

[LeRoy3rd]

Oh, and did you see the update notes for this today? With all of the fixes that are sorely needed, weeks after release, they put out an update with this as the description:

"Removed midleading LE buy button"

Bravo. Groundbreaking. We can tell you've been working hard to make this software better... :end sarcasm:

-LeRoy3rd

 

[Narc0lep5y]

So..

1) A mobile gaming type pay model on a
2) VR platform where no other titles currently use that type of model.
3) with little to no press. Or even promotion from within the Rift platform, (check the oculus store home page, it's nowhere unless you search for it)
4) even though it's a Rift exclusive (on PC)

This title was set up to fail.

 

[shutyertrap]

I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at this.

We actually ripped quite a bit on this for the podcast this week, but the fact it gets even worse as you level up, wow. I sorta ran into this with the Skillz app, which FarSight and Zen have games on. Each time you play a match, you earn 'ticketz' which in turn can be used for prizes. As you progress, you can earn multipliers to more quickly earn ticketz. Your progress bar to the next multiplier however resets each month, and it is virtually impossible to get there without a) playing an obscene amount of matches, for which b) you can only play if you have money to spend for each game. Remember, this is an actual game you can win cash from, but you have to have money in your account to play. I was on a crazy win streak, during a weekend where all ticketz totals from wins were doubled, and I still couldn't get from 2x to 3x. Wanna no why?

1x to 2x you need to earn 250 ticketz
2x to 3x you need to earn 50,000
3x to 4x you need to earn 150,000
4x to 5x you need to earn 400,000
5x to 6x you need to earn 800,000

That first jump up is no joke and is not even a nice way of dangling a carrot in front of the donkey. It's downright a punch to the face coupled with a kick to the balls. Sadly, I think FarSight sees this and goes, "seems fair". I mean hey, you can actually purchase a Porshe with your ticketz winnings in this game, just by playing! Isn't that something?

So when I read the whole leveling up thing MBeeching posted above, I just had to shake my head and laugh. It's beyond absurd, so laughably unachievable, and all for what isn't even a new style of game play or anything, but for a freakin' skin! It literally has next to no value, something you'd pay 79 cents for in Tomb Raider so Lara can wear her 'classic' outfit instead of the modern one. I don't even have VR and this sets me off.

 

[wolfson]

Galahs should just sell the tables at $10 a table, how bloody simple !!!

 

[Citizen]

Haha, oh man. I knew this model would be bad, but they surpassed my expectations.

I know Stern doesn't think much of digital pinball in the first place, but I have to wonder how they feel when they see their license released on a product that's dead in the water from the start.

And just think, this token system was their master plan for fixing SPA and keeping it relevant. In the interview, it was stated that VR would be the testing ground for this model. Needless to say, I don't think PC/mobile/consoles will be seeing it.

So then what will be next for mainline SPA?

1. Let it die.
2. Some new insane scheme.
3. Actually attempt to save it by adding actual new content (you know, those pinball machine things) to it like they should have been doing from the start.

Probably not 3.

 

[zmcvay]

Galahs should just sell the tables at $10 a table, how bloody simple !!!

They do. Mostly the same pricing model as SPA, just without the $20 bundles. Premium tables $10, older tables (Phantom, LAH, HRC) $5. The token method of getting tables is a joke, but the only tables you have to get that way are the LE versions, which as far as I can tell barely qualify as cosmetic reskins. I wish they would at least discount them if you bought them in the normal version of SPA, but I look at the token system as just a demo to try before buying to see how the tables work in VR. So far I've only bought Star Trek, but mostly because I'm a little weary of purchasing these tables for what amounts to the third time.

Edit: As an addition, I think it's how you look at it. The token system should not be thought of or realistically advertised as a way to get tables for free. I just don't see that happening. But if you look at it as a demo system, it's actually more generous than what TPA or Zen have in place. I appreciate it in that regard because what looks good in SPA doesn't necessarily translate well to VR. I love Ghostbusters, but the VR version has a bigger issue with the farther end of the table being blurrier in normal play for me than Star Trek does, so I haven't bothered to purchase it. But I do like that I can play a few full games for free at a time without buying it using tokens. In short, unless this replaces the means of just buying tables you want, I don't see getting angry over it. If it does become the norm, well, then I'm done with it.

 

[MBeeching]

We actually ripped quite a bit on this for the podcast this week

Thanks for the heads-up, an enjoyable and insightful listen. Mike definitely stated 1000 tokens in exchange for gold bars so there are clearly some internal miscommunication issues.

In principle the token system is quite generous and any semi-decent player should be able to keep their balance reasonably buoyant and continue playing providing they resist constant restarts when the first ball drains!

Farsight seem very keen for people to use this system and have indeed used words to that effect when responding to reviews on the Oculus Store. I'm intrigued how it generates revenue, are Oculus or Stern perhaps paying them a few cents per play for customer engagement?

Despite the controversial gold bar situation I can't deny I'm enjoying SPA VR and have already spent 22hrs playing it, whilst somewhat unnecessary I've purchased four tables as a 'token' of my appreciation (RBION, AC/DC, GB, Star Trek).

Farsight's tables have never played better and clearly benefit from the increased frame rate and display technology. I'm currently using 1.5x supersampling in conjunction with Nvidia's maximum quality settings which I find satisfactory though a HMD with increased pixel count would substantially improve legibility.

I'm planning to post a review but struggling to decide an appropriate and fair score, hopefully criticism is being taken on-board and there will be bug fixes and adjustments in the not too distant future, though their track record is far from exemplary.

 

[shutyertrap]

Always review how a game is, not how it could be. If there are bugs that deter from your enjoyment, make mention and score based on how much the affect you. A game could be riddled with bugs but still be extremely enjoyable, same as a game that runs flawlessly could be an utter drag.

 

[zmcvay]

Got around to trying Phantom of the Opera on SPA VR, and the table is pretty, but wow, they really made that ramp too easy to hit. Since Phantom came out in TPA I've never been able to get any more than a 3rd Phantom Million, and on my second VR game I was able to get an 11th. On the plus side I made more than enough challenge points to win back the tokens I spent for the two games and then some.

 

[MBeeching]

Got around to trying Phantom of the Opera on SPA VR, and the table is pretty, but wow, they really made that ramp too easy to hit. Since Phantom came out in TPA I've never been able to get any more than a 3rd Phantom Million, and on my second VR game I was able to get an 11th. On the plus side I made more than enough challenge points to win back the tokens I spent for the two games and then some.

Interesting point, these new SPA VR tables utilise the existing scoreboards but I'm convinced the ball physics are noticeably different (and arguably superior) to the '67fps limited' TPA versions.

I despise Phantom of the Opera and don't own the standard version so I can't compare them beyond the trial mode, but I'm convinced most of the others play significantly better on the VR version - particularly AC/DC, Star Trek, Mustang & Ghostbusters.

I'm utterly convinced there more to it than a refresh rate improvement (67>90fps) the physics are more enjoyable and natural.

 

[blindpeser]

Farsight is still hiding away, at least there seems to be some progress. L2/R2 do not work yet on xbox controllers though.

 

[blindpeser]

Nothing from Farsight yet, so I asked Jeremy (Jerware) if there is a fix for the Pinsim that allows to use the L2/R2 buttons. Surprisingly this has already been on the table and he sent me a link to an updated firmware: https://github.com/Jerware/PinSim

To make a long story short: This works fantastic and finally I was able to play SPA VR. Have to admit that it is better than I thought. The UI could be better and there are flaws here and there, but overall it runs really good. The physics are better than on the other platforms I played it on. They arent as great as on FX2 VR, but still good. I dont want to complain. Only bigger issue I wasnt able to fix yet: How do I recenter the z-axis?

Even the rumble works, at least on some tables. On some tables I just didnt recognize any rumble. Would be nice to get a little feedback (rumble) for each bumper hit. This is one of the most immersive features on FX2 VR for me, but it is no must have. I know you (Farsight) guys have little time for upgrades like this.

 

[Firefox2000]

Is there any news on this heading for steam, i have been playing this via the Oculus store but i don't really want to spend any money on the oculus store version because of the hardware DRM that oculus have on some of Oculus store software, whereas steam is are a much more open platform meaning any VR headset can usually play any software, so i would love this on steam and would buy the tables there ina heartbeat, loving the ST table in VR.