Spacies Marble Physics Video

[kimkom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NG2ZK24a_o

Spacie, I think you've absolutely nailed it here.

I agree 100% that Zen's ball lacks the weight and inertia that a real ball exhibits. It's certainly nowhere near Farsight's moon ball physics but it's still not as realistic as it perhaps could be.

Your comparison with the steel ball and marble later in the video really does highlight the issue perfectly. Quality stuff!

Note that I play at 120Hz, so it's definitely not just something that's apparent at 60Hz.

Hopefully, Deep is able to further refine his already excellent physics engine to better emulate the weight of a real ball.

 

[wolfson]

yep I agree , kimkom I watch Greg all the time , he`s like most of us , get near to the best physics and have a fun bloody time playing it !!!!

 

[shutyertrap]

Yeah, that was an excellent idea Gregg had there to use a marble. Wish he had of shown that first and then played the digital versions, but that's just me!

The question I posted to his comments is how do we know gravity is even a factor in digital pinball? Are those forces programmed in? Or is it a lot of smoke and mirrors to simulate gravity without actually having it be a calculated factor? I'm sorta dying to know this from all the digital pinball studios.

 

[Kolchak357]

I think the physics feel really good now. I just don't think it will ever be perfect, and that's ok with me. If they find a way to add a bit more weight to the ball, that's cool. but I'm pretty happy with what we have. I see what he means though.

 

[MBeeching]

The question I posted to his comments is how do we know gravity is even a factor in digital pinball? Are those forces programmed in? Or is it a lot of smoke and mirrors to simulate gravity without actually having it be a calculated factor? I'm sorta dying to know this from all the digital pinball studios.

The files appear to reference a Mass and Gravity Multiplier, though oddly those only appear within Fish Tales so perhaps that's now redundant legacy content. All the others hint towards Gravity and Transform variables but they are encrypted for obvious reasons! That does at least suggest they're a consideration and can be tweaked and adjusted internally.

 

[kimkom]

The files appear to reference a Mass and Gravity Multiplier, though oddly those only appear within Fish Tales so perhaps that's now redundant legacy content. All the others hint towards Gravity and Transform variables but they are encrypted for obvious reasons! That does at least suggest they're a consideration and can be tweaked and adjusted internally.

Nice one

The trouble is it's likely that many variables would need adjusting, as there's no 'magic bullet' when it comes to simulating such things. There are knock on effects that Deep would be juggling with, no doubt.

 

[shutyertrap]

Wow, nice pull of info!

It is odd, how you can be fine with how something plays until you get a taste for how it can play better. I used to have no issues with TPA, other than cosmetic. I was quite happy with the physics in comparison to everything else I'd played. Along comes Zen's Williams tables, and I can't enjoy TPA in the least! Then Zen introduces the new flipper physics to Vol 4, and I'm slightly turning my nose up at Vol 1-3 and groaning about how much better post passes are with the new tables. Then I watch Gregg's video with the marble, and I'm like "hmmm, he's got a good point!" and thinking of what could be.

Never satisfied. The good news is, I don't think Deep ever is either.

 

[kimkom]

Ha ha, very true.

To be honest though, I was never really satisfied with TPA. It just felt like a huge wasted opportunity on so many fronts but especially with the physics. I can't even face loading it up any more.

I think Zen are much closer with the WMS tables. In comparison, it's just about the ONLY game I will load up now!

 

[Zaphod77]

There are many complex interactions that affect pinball physics. mass, spin, and friction all combine to create the many weird effects.

Additionally, we have timer resolution and framerate to worry about.

When the latter is not taken into account, we have literally impossible shots for no good reason.

To make sure shots can actually be shot at intended times often the physics have to be cheated behind the scenes.

The biggest example of this is spider man's upper left flipper on the bottom level, where any reasonably aimed shot will go either one way or the other like magic. TPA often has ramp vacuums on older tables to do the same thing. Creatures main left ramp used to have a vacuum that sucked up a huge range of shots.

You would think with so few variables to actually worry about, this would be simple, but if it was, people would have perfect physics by now. But someday....

 

[wilbers]

Posted about marbles in the random thought thread, but here is one where the marbles are the competitors and a steel ball or two can come along after to help (or not) them on their way.