Steam managers should read this

[kimkom]

Hello all

I believe this is my first post, so many thanks to Farsight for providing us with such a fabulous pinball sim. You really are doing a fantastic job.

Firstly, I have to confess to being a PFX2 convert. It too is a nice game but I found that it just wasn't providing me with that 'real' pinball feel, even though their physics engine is very good. The problem for me was that it was just heading way too far down the video game route for my taste. Hence I've recently given TPA another visit on the old xbox, and after downloading the title update and all the available tables, I must say that I'm completely hooked!

I've been following everything and anything related to TPA for a few weeks now, and like everyone else I was very disappointed that it didn't get Greenlit on January 15th. Whoever is managing Valve's Greenlight process should take a serious look at this article on the BBC website, and reconsider their stance on TPA immediately:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21200001

It's extremely frustrating that TPA has not yet been release on the PC, and as my other platform of choice is the xbox 360 (with all it's publisher woes), it doesn't make it any easier! No doubt that Farsight could make TPA really shine on a high-end PC!

Hoping (like every other TPA fan) to hear some positive news for both platforms very soon.

 

[brakel]

Probably not likely that anyone from Steam is going to see this.

 

[kimkom]

Unless a Farsight team member happens to pass it on to them

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Welcome to the forums!

And yes, they should take pinball games more seriously and put more of them onto their store. Farsight, DO SOMETHING!!!

 

[brakel]

Unless a Farsight team member happens to pass it on to them

I think if FarSight had a way to sit down and talk to the Steam people then they'd be on Steam already. TPA despite some bugs and glitches is a top notch product with a lot of good DLC left to produce.

 

[DarkAkatosh]

The green light process is the dumbest thing I've seen a successful company do in a long time. All it does is alienate genres and developers.

 

[kimkom]

The green light process is the dumbest thing I've seen a successful company do in a long time. All it does is alienate genres and developers.

Obviously Farsight had their reasons for choosing this method though. What are the alternatives?

You would think that in this age of digital distribution, the PC version would be the easiest format to deliver to market.

 

[Sinistar]

It's simple they have contracted licenses , and are legally bound by having to make the game secure with Digital Rights Management to keep the licenses from being pirated . What this probably means , is any hopes of modding the PC game are going to be short lived , as you can expect some kind of "content was found that does not match core game files." Steam is designed to keep games with modified file content from playing .

 

[DarkAkatosh]

Well yeah. Steam is by far the most popular distribution medium for PC games. Only other thing would be Origin which I've not heard a good thing about. Unless Amazon is a possible alternative...

 

[Sumez]

It's simple they have contracted licenses , and are legally bound by having to make the game secure with Digital Rights Management to keep the licenses from being pirated . What this probably means , is any hopes of modding the PC game are going to be short lived , as you can expect some kind of "content was found that does not match core game files." Steam is designed to keep games with modified file content from playing .

It's ridicolous. No matter how much DRM they tack unto TPA, it'll be hacked and available "for free" on various torrents within a month after eventually being released on Steam. They might as well release it DRM free, if not through their own site, then through an excellent service like GOG, who would probably be interested.

Anyway, angry fit aside, there obviously aren't any pinball fans working at Steam. If there were just one, he'd be sure to pull TPA through the process.
I never liked Steam at all, I'm doing everything I can to avoid it in general, and this isn't helping.

 

[Worf]

There are two ways to get on steam - you have your publisher publish your game on Steam (if they have existing Valve contacts, this is easy). Unfortunately, Farsight's publisher went bankrupt, which left the 360 version abandoned as well.

The other way is the "indie" way which is Greenlight, which works by having popular indie titles bubble up and get voted in.

I'm sure Farsight is talking with their new publisher about direct publishing through Steam as well.

As for DRM - there are ways to detect it (Garry's Mod has been the most amusing one so far) usually requiring hacked versions of the Steam executable.

But the bigger reason for going through steam is because they handle all the back end payment systems. If you look at every other platform, the payment is handled by the manufacturer - be it Apple, Google, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, whatever. If they release it online, Farsight would have to maintain their own payment system (probably tied to Farsight login), and it's not exactly an easy task - having to deal with the likes of Paypal or merchant accounts or such (processing a credit card payment is NOT easy to do in house). Plus, then FS has to build account management portals and other stuff - diverting time and energy away from TPA. And guess what? It'll have bugs. And people will raise lawsuits over bugs and errors and all that. And before you know it, one stupid bug (face it - it's gonna happen given FS' track record with the kickstarters and other things) will get some lawyer sue-happy and form a class action that'll cost FS $1M+ in money they don't have

FS has decided that whatever the cut (30% for Apple/Google. more for Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo, etc), those headaches are better left for others to deal with. Plus, there are other benefits, like auto updates and such, more stuff FS does not have to write and support.

 

[Sumez]

GOG does all that.

 

[kimkom]

@Worf
Interesting post, I hope you are right about Farsight's new publisher sorting out the Steam situation.

@Sinistar
I hunger, coward! Sorry, couldn't resist. Classic Williams game, by the way. Not true about Steam preventing modded games from playing though. I play a heavily modded Skyrim through Steam, and also F1 2012. So if TPA does eventually get on there, hopefully mods would be possible. Higher resolution playfields and backglasses would certainly go down well with me!

 

[Butterkins]

It's ridicolous. No matter how much DRM they tack unto TPA, it'll be hacked and available "for free" on various torrents within a month after eventually being released on Steam. They might as well release it DRM free, if not through their own site, then through an excellent service like GOG, who would probably be interested.

Yes, DRM gets cracked. We all know that.

However, the purpose of most DRM is not to prevent all piracy. It's to prevent wholesale, casual piracy.

The rights-holders want their products to have the best chance in the marketplace. Right now, this means some form of copyright protection.

Here's the thing that many DRM haters miss: you don't need 100% anti-piracy success in order to have a viable product. You just need enough protection that deters widespread copying amongst the broader group of users.

(i.e. this strategy doesn't depend on your personal view of DRM evilness. It's about commerce. Most companies aren't trying to screw you with DRM. They're simply trying to pay the bills. They hate DRM for the most part; it's tedious, error-prone, upsets customers, and distracts developers from creating the interesting stuff. But developers and publisher hate losing their mortgages even more.)


Now, as for Steam, I believe they do understand just how much they get in the way. Gabe Newell recently went on record as saying their goal is to get Steam out of the way altogether: they want individuals to be able to curate their own game collections, sell those collections, make a profit, get new products on to Steam without heavy-handed Steam involvement. They know that, right now, Steam Greenlight is a bottleneck (to use their words).

But, of course, Steam isn't there yet. Just like all the other distribution systems, there are real-world problems in getting content out to consumers in a way that benefits all parties.

 

[Metalzoic]

Anyway, angry fit aside, there obviously aren't any pinball fans working at Steam. If there were just one, he'd be sure to pull TPA through the process.

Maybe it's a quality control issue? Perhaps they don't want it on their service until it is a better product.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Back in March, Valve said that there wasn't a community for pinball. Farsight asked us to contact them as a result.

 

[kimkom]

Back in March, Valve said that there wasn't a community for pinball. Farsight asked us to contact them as a result.

No community?! Man, that's utter rubbish. I'd refer tham back to the link I posted at the top of this thread.

 

[SilverBalls]

Valve love a game with a bit of violence and gore, so maybe Farsight should add a mini game that gets triggered when you are awarded a free game, where you can blow the brains out of some innocent pinball related character. The feature would be disabled by the average PA player of course, but it would keep the likes of Valve happy, and it would be published in a blink of an eye.

 

[Sumez]

Yes, DRM gets cracked. We all know that.

However, the purpose of most DRM is not to prevent all piracy. It's to prevent wholesale, casual piracy.

The rights-holders want their products to have the best chance in the marketplace. Right now, this means some form of copyright protection.

Here's the thing that many DRM haters miss: you don't need 100% anti-piracy success in order to have a viable product. You just need enough protection that deters widespread copying amongst the broader group of users.

I get where you're coming from, and yeah, I think that's why "the suits" up there think they better protect their product as much as they can, not taking chances. But I don't think it makes much sense.
Basically, "casual piracy" isn't like back in the days when you'd copy a tape to a friend. Nowadays, people, and that's a lot of people, in fact I'd say it's sadly the majority of people who play computer games, rather than a minority, tend to happily get their pirated games via Bittorrent sites. It's incredibly easy and care-free, and here's the deal - these people never even notice that the DRM existed to begin with!
DRM only hinders the people who are "creating" the pirated version to begin with, and those guys tend to be decent hackers, so usually it'll only hinder them for a few days at most, and even if they are kept at bay for longer, once at least one person finds a way to break the DRM, it might never have existed to begin with. Everyone who doesn't want to pay legally for their games will get the game, whether you're considering "casual" or "hardcore" pirates. It doesn't make a difference.

I'd love to see it really making difference, as I'm personally a very strong opposer of software piracy, but as I see it, DRM isn't helping anyone.

 

[brakel]

Yes, DRM gets cracked. We all know that.

However, the purpose of most DRM is not to prevent all piracy. It's to prevent wholesale, casual piracy.

The rights-holders want their products to have the best chance in the marketplace. Right now, this means some form of copyright protection.

Here's the thing that many DRM haters miss: you don't need 100% anti-piracy success in order to have a viable product. You just need enough protection that deters widespread copying amongst the broader group of users.

(i.e. this strategy doesn't depend on your personal view of DRM evilness. It's about commerce. Most companies aren't trying to screw you with DRM. They're simply trying to pay the bills. They hate DRM for the most part; it's tedious, error-prone, upsets customers, and distracts developers from creating the interesting stuff. But developers and publisher hate losing their mortgages even more.)


Now, as for Steam, I believe they do understand just how much they get in the way. Gabe Newell recently went on record as saying their goal is to get Steam out of the way altogether: they want individuals to be able to curate their own game collections, sell those collections, make a profit, get new products on to Steam without heavy-handed Steam involvement. They know that, right now, Steam Greenlight is a bottleneck (to use their words).

But, of course, Steam isn't there yet. Just like all the other distribution systems, there are real-world problems in getting content out to consumers in a way that benefits all parties.

With TPA it has been said that DRM is contractually required by FarSight's contracts with those that hold the licenses to the pinball tables.