Still hope for Xbox 360

[Gigabomber]

You folks missed this, so I'll post it from facebook on Dec. 20th:

James Fabien:
so i guess you guys decided to give up on the xbox
4 · December 20, 2013 at 4:16pm

The Pinball Arcade:
Never!!
8 · December 20, 2013 at 4:53pm

[deleted unrelated post]

Lloyd Van't Haaff:
I am so glad you have not given up. But it is really tough out here in the trenches! We have not had anything new in over a year. PLEASE get some new content going for us!!!
1 · December 20, 2013 at 7:45pm

The Pinball Arcade:
We're trying!
1 · January 2 at 5:26pm



I did a quick search and it took both GM and Kodak about 20 months to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Anyone have any more technical input? I know there are a few people around here that linked to court print-outs.

 

[KaneRobot]

You folks missed this, so I'll post it from facebook on Dec. 20th:

James Fabien:
so i guess you guys decided to give up on the xbox
4 · December 20, 2013 at 4:16pm

The Pinball Arcade:
Never!!
8 · December 20, 2013 at 4:53pm

[deleted unrelated post]

Lloyd Van't Haaff:
I am so glad you have not given up. But it is really tough out here in the trenches! We have not had anything new in over a year. PLEASE get some new content going for us!!!
1 · December 20, 2013 at 7:45pm

The Pinball Arcade:
We're trying!
1 · January 2 at 5:26pm



I did a quick search and it took both GM and Kodak about 20 months to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Anyone have any more technical input? I know there are a few people around here that linked to court print-outs.

Thanks for sharing that, missed that.

Although you can't really compare one bankruptcy process to another. Some are through right away, others take much, much longer. Memory may be wrong here but I don't think THQ's took that long.

As far as the earlier argument about the tasteful-factor in releasing for XBone, I don't really have an opinion that is particularly strong one way our the other, but you can't really compare it to the PS3/PS4 scenario. It's a completely different situation. Regardless, doesn't really affect me since I'm not buying an XBone (or PS4) anytime soon.

 

[brakel]

Also GM and Kodak worked through their bankruptcies because they were restructuring. They produced and sold products throughout their respective bankruptcies. Crave's parent company was going through an asset sale bankruptcy. All business stops and then everything that's worth anything is sold. At some point during this process the court realized that Crave was worth very little money but could bring in cash flow if allowed to operate. While the court was figuring out Crave's separate restructuring, Microsoft pulled Crave's publishing rights on the 360 probably because Crave hadn't paid them for fees owed. As far as can be figured out with our limited knowledge, Farsight is stuck with a contract that can't be fulfilled. Until they are released from that contract or the contract expires they can't publish on the 360. Once they are out of the contract they will be free to work with another publisher.

 

[MegaDrive (Mark Wyda)]

No way. It would be bad taste not to attempt an XBone version. Was it in bad taste to make a PS4 version when they had made one for PS3?

It's in bad taste the same way as porting Crimson Dragon, a completed Xbox 360 title, to the Xbox One and canceling the 360 version, just to pad out the launch portfolio was.

Obviously Farsight isn't doing it for that reason, but still it just stings for 360 customers.

After the year plus 360 fiasco doing an Xbox One version while the 360 is -still- in limbo is a slap in the face, IMO. If they can get the 360 version out than by all means do an XB1 version but until then I stand by my words.

All the tables are on PS3. If you chose, you can upgrade to PS4 and get them on that. It's you're choice. 400$ for the unit, 15$ -30$ bucks for Season 1 if you chose.

Not all tables are on 360. Not even close. So if the only way to get them is to shell out 500$ on a forced upgrade. Yeah, I think it's in bad taste. I think a lot of people would agree and I think it's one of the reasons Farsight is holding off on Xbox One.

Maybe it doesn't matter or is viewed as petty to Xbox One owners, but for the millions or 360 users who don't want to upgrade or don't want an Xbox One period, it's not.

 

[Joz]

Farsight is stuck with a contract that can't be fulfilled. Until they are released from that contract or the contract expires they can't publish on the 360. Once they are out of the contract they will be free to work with another publisher.

This is what I don't understand. If somebody can't fulfill their end of the contract (Crave in this situation), then how can the other party be binded to the contract? They didn't fulfill their end of the contract, contract was broken, right? That should be end of story and Farsight moves on. I thought that's how contracts work, but maybe somebody that's more legally inclined here can correct my "crazy" interpretation.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

This is what I don't understand. If somebody can't fulfill their end of the contract (Crave in this situation), then how can the other party be binded to the contract? They didn't fulfill their end of the contract, contract was broken, right? That should be end of story and Farsight moves on. I thought that's how contracts work, but maybe somebody that's more legally inclined here can correct my "crazy" interpretation.

Contract isn't the only issue. Getting a new publisher is harder than it seems. Microsoft only gives out a certain number of XBLA slots to publishers based on how many printed disc games they get. Most publishers aren't willing to use their slot for a Pinball game.

As for the contract/assets. Creditors sue to get ownership of assets (Pinball Arcade would be an asset), so it makes it hard to do anything with it.

It's not uncommon in bankruptcies for a publisher to file for bankruptcy, but continue to pay a developer (or developers) to make games. Then later the publisher collapses, and the creditors sue all the developers for the money they were paid while the publisher was in bankruptcy. That can be financially devastating to a small development company.

Unfortunately the only people who benefit from bankruptcy are the lawyers who suck up all the money on all sides.

 

[brakel]

Unfortunately the only people who benefit from bankruptcy are the lawyers who suck up all the money on all sides.

That and class action lawsuits. Five years later some laptop manufacturer had to pay out millions of dollars to settle a class action lawsuit and I got a coupon for $5 off my next laptop from them!

 

[diablomozart]

no disrespect intended but it sure would be nice to get a disc based version of tpa to complement my williams greatest hits lol...sorry i'm old school...i've got all the ones released for the 360 but i definitely like a physical product too...d.m.

 

[Joz]

Well thanks Mike for the insight there. Little tidbits like that are all that's needed to shed at least some light as to what's going on, and allows us frustrated fans to understand the situation more, and not be mad at you guys! I appreciate it.

 

[Joz]

...and btw, in that case most publishers are being silly because Pinball Arcade I would think to be a pretty hot XBLA title to use a slot on, compared to a lot of the stuff I see on there.

 

[Gordon]

Contract isn't the only issue. Getting a new publisher is harder than it seems. Microsoft only gives out a certain number of XBLA slots to publishers based on how many printed disc games they get. Most publishers aren't willing to use their slot for a Pinball game.

As for the contract/assets. Creditors sue to get ownership of assets (Pinball Arcade would be an asset), so it makes it hard to do anything with it.

It's not uncommon in bankruptcies for a publisher to file for bankruptcy, but continue to pay a developer (or developers) to make games. Then later the publisher collapses, and the creditors sue all the developers for the money they were paid while the publisher was in bankruptcy. That can be financially devastating to a small development company.

Unfortunately the only people who benefit from bankruptcy are the lawyers who suck up all the money on all sides.

I don´t understand.

Quote from Newsletter Dec 2012

We are happy to announce that we've selected a new publisher for the Xbox 360 version of the Pinball Arcade! We are in the final stages of contracting, and we will make an announcement when we know when new tables will be released for the Xbox 360. Thanks for your patience during this transition!

 

[brakel]

I don´t understand.

Quote from Newsletter Dec 2012

We are happy to announce that we've selected a new publisher for the Xbox 360 version of the Pinball Arcade! We are in the final stages of contracting, and we will make an announcement when we know when new tables will be released for the Xbox 360. Thanks for your patience during this transition!

I would assume that the final stages of contracting did not lead to a final agreement based on Mike's comments.

 

[MegaDrive (Mark Wyda)]

Mike, you say that publishers don't want to touch a disc release , what about recent ps4 disc?

Why is it cool for ps4, not cool for 360?

I know you sort of touched on it, but can you elaborate further? Is Microsoft truly this awful with Indy devs, and is that why Xbox One version isn't being talked about?

Btw in regards to the thread in general, my advice to 360 owners is to invest in another platform. I can't recommend PS4 version enough it's fantastic, playing on iPad is incredible, almost as good as console, PC version looks great and looks great on low end hardware, a graphics card capable to run it or a ps3 can be had for under 200$ if you shop around, hell even am Ouya for under 100$ isn't so bad. I'm simpły making this post for people still suffering and holding out; there are a plethora of options and as bad as it sucks at least there -are- options. I just want everyone to enjoy the game.

 

[Joz]

Btw in regards to the thread in general, my advice to 360 owners is to invest in another platform. I can't recommend PS4 version enough it's fantastic, playing on iPad is incredible, almost as good as console, PC version looks great and looks great on low end hardware, a graphics card capable to run it or a ps3 can be had for under 200$ if you shop around, hell even am Ouya for under 100$ isn't so bad. I'm simpły making this post for people still suffering and holding out; there are a plethora of options and as bad as it sucks at least there -are- options. I just want everyone to enjoy the game.

Yehhh... ehhhh... see it's like this: Me and my wife like playing this game a lot. We kinda discovered it together, and we like to play together or watch each other play on the TV. So, tablets, phones, and PC are not gonna work. Ouya: ooohhh... yeah... graphics degradation, controller issues, not looking to take a big step backwards. PS3: flipper lag. PS4: yeah, close, but quite buggy at the moment, and my favorite table has weird DMD issues. So... PS4 is best hope, but doesn't seem to be quite there yet. Of course, not to mention having to shell out $400 to play the game.

 

[superballs]

It's in bad taste the same way as porting Crimson Dragon, a completed Xbox 360 title, to the Xbox One and canceling the 360 version, just to pad out the launch portfolio was.

Obviously Farsight isn't doing it for that reason, but still it just stings for 360 customers.

After the year plus 360 fiasco doing an Xbox One version while the 360 is -still- in limbo is a slap in the face, IMO. If they can get the 360 version out than by all means do an XB1 version but until then I stand by my words.

All the tables are on PS3. If you chose, you can upgrade to PS4 and get them on that. It's you're choice. 400$ for the unit, 15$ -30$ bucks for Season 1 if you chose.

Not all tables are on 360. Not even close. So if the only way to get them is to shell out 500$ on a forced upgrade. Yeah, I think it's in bad taste. I think a lot of people would agree and I think it's one of the reasons Farsight is holding off on Xbox One.

Maybe it doesn't matter or is viewed as petty to Xbox One owners, but for the millions or 360 users who don't want to upgrade or don't want an Xbox One period, it's not.

It's not in bad taste. The example you made above with crimson dragon is invalid as the company making the game decided not to release it for 360 and pushed it to another console.

Farsight can do absolute dick all about the 360 situation. They aren't holding it back they simply can't release it. It's out of their hands and if they intend on releasing it for the xbox one it's hardly any more a slap in the face than releasing it for just about any other system.

Yehhh... ehhhh... see it's like this: Me and my wife like playing this game a lot. We kinda discovered it together, and we like to play together or watch each other play on the TV. So, tablets, phones, and PC are not gonna work. Ouya: ooohhh... yeah... graphics degradation, controller issues, not looking to take a big step backwards. PS3: flipper lag. PS4: yeah, close, but quite buggy at the moment, and my favorite table has weird DMD issues. So... PS4 is best hope, but doesn't seem to be quite there yet. Of course, not to mention having to shell out $400 to play the game.

Why can't you play the pc version together? There's a setting for more than one player and if you have an hdtv you should be able to connect your pc to it via hdmi or even vga.

If you don't have an hdtv then you won't have flipper lag on the ps3 and the lag is only present at 1080p which leaves 720p an option.

Hell I guess having no tables to play is a step up from some minor bugs

 

[Joz]

Why can't you play the pc version together? There's a setting for more than one player and if you have an hdtv you should be able to connect your pc to it via hdmi or even vga.

If you don't have an hdtv then you won't have flipper lag on the ps3 and the lag is only present at 1080p which leaves 720p an option.

Hell I guess having no tables to play is a step up from some minor bugs

Well, for the PC version to TV, it's just an additional cable that I gotta run into it, which doesn't sound like a big deal, but to get to the TV from the PC, it's gonna take some work to route/hide said cable to not make it look like a disorderly random cable running across the ground to the TV. Then I guess I'd use an Xbox 360 controller with a PC receiver (another thing to buy)... but then how to go about switching it from controlling the PC to controlling the Xbox 360... then gotta go over to the PC to start up the game/change controller settings maybe?... it's just inconvenient/a hassle to setup. I hear bad things about graphics at 720p on PS3 so, again, not looking to take a step back in quality.

The thing to do is bite the bullet and get the PS4, but it's really just an issue of being poor at the moment. This was just a rebuttal to the enthusiastic "really you should switch platforms!" post. I wanted to show how for some switching platforms has limited (expensive) options.

 

[McGuirk]

I have no immediate plans to buy an Xbox One or a PS4. I play my current 360 so little as it is, that another console would be a waste of money with my work schedule. I don't think you can "sell" a next-gen console based on a pinball game, so that's certainly not going to make a dent in changing my decision.

I have two Android devices and I'm happy to play on both, but I want to be able to take advantage of the graphics and lighting those early 360 tables had. This is an across-the-board failure, from Crave, Farsight, and the justice system.

 

[brakel]

This is a lot like discussing the pricing structure of TPA on other sub forums. Either TPA is worth whatever you need to do to play it or its not. Any player's willingness to or unwillingness to not do what they need to do to play TPA will have no effect on the fact that FarSight has very little, if any, control over whether they will ever be able to get TPA published on the 360.

 

[MegaDrive (Mark Wyda)]

I have no immediate plans to buy an Xbox One or a PS4. I play my current 360 so little as it is, that another console would be a waste of money with my work schedule. I don't think you can "sell" a next-gen console based on a pinball game, so that's certainly not going to make a dent in changing my decision.

I have two Android devices and I'm happy to play on both, but I want to be able to take advantage of the graphics and lighting those early 360 tables had. This is an across-the-board failure, from Crave, Farsight, and the justice system.

I bought PS4 just to play pinball. Why not? Its my most played game now 2 years running. Just because it wasn't developed with a 50 million dollar budget doesn't mean it's not one of the best games out on the system. It's the only game I own and I don't regret the purchase one bit. Well worth it.

My next game purchases will be Metal Gear Ground Zeros and Deep Down. Best versions of multiplatform games all gen is incentive enough for me. I also don't see a significant price drop for a very long time as 400$ is affordable. Why wait?

I am still interested in 360 version obviously as I've been posting here. I have 100 games on it so the system isn't going anywhere.

 

[superballs]

The fact is, that an average staples computer with a 60$ graphics card will play TPA, if you want a low overhead platform to play it on, then it's there. This is in no way a failure on Farsight's part. They didn't manage Crave's finances and by the looks of it they were one of the few aspects of Crave that were making any money whatsoever.

Tragic but seriously, if it doesn't come out for 360 it's not worth being bitter about. If you want to hold out and hope that's great, but the sheer majority of us are having fun playing pinball.