The Future of TPA

[Peter NYC]

I agree with the prior post.

Also worth noting is that iOS and other mobile gaming platforms have become a major market that did not exist when the last generations of consoles were released. Many publishers find these platforms appealing because the development cost is generally cheaper and there is less risk associated with publishing for those platforms than for a console.

Consumer expectations are lower on these platforms because they are not full fledged hardware devices dedicated to gaming. The next generation of consoles will have more power, and it will be more costly to develop for them than the current generation.

Part of the reason so many shooters are released for current consoles is because there is a built in audience for those types of games. Developers and publishers are less inclined to do anything different on a big budget title.

The last console game I played that was innovative was Portal in 2007 or so, and that was a low budget game packed in with other games in The Orange Box.

 

[Richard B]

Portal was originally supposed to be a downloadable game, but the file size was too large (at the time), and they wouldn't allow it (sound familiar)? That's why they packaged it in the Orange Box.
Once MS removed the size restriction, they added it to the marketplace, along with exclusive content (Still Alive).

 

[Sean]

I'm sure the consoles will always be playing catch-up because I cannot imagine that most sales aren't happening on the iOS and Android platforms due to lack of overhead and a speedier publication timeline.

As long as they can afford the dev kits and port their engine I expect to see this on home consoles. In the recent Nintendo Life interview Jay says that future retail releases are also a possibility, so even if they decided not to proceed with DLC on consoles I think we'd likely see a disc release. Given we're clearly moving to a download-only future, I expect that we'd have download and retail "best of" collections side-by-side.

I'm not worried about any of this. As long as they can stay in business offering this title they will. I think the company's future is probably more secure publishing Pinball Arcade than it would be doing Game Party. Developing new IP isn't easy; whoever at Farsight had the idea to digitise real pinball machines was a genius!

 

[goforthewall]

In the recent Nintendo Life interview Jay says that future retail releases are also a possibility, so even if they decided not to proceed with DLC on consoles I think we'd likely see a disc release.

The interview is here:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._studios_pinball_on_wii_u_3ds_and_kickstarter

 

[Franky]

there are many good points so far and yes, maybe the next generations are backward compatible but the main problem still exists - is farside really able to survive with tpa?

in my opinion - NO - i don't think farside will make it very long, not with this product. As i said before, pfx2 is way more popular and way more appealing to the casual player and it's around for a long long time now. the pfx series startet when consoles where on it's peak and no other pinball game was around. Now at the end of the lifespan tpa shows up with "just" original tables (which are very boring to a non pinball addict), bad support and at the same time asking for money. it took almost 5 years till pfx finally had its breakthrough. 5 years is a long time, to be honest, i don't think tpa will continue releasing tables for the next 5 years.

many of you guys write - "the games is amazing", "they are genius to digitalize real tables" and on and on - but don't forget, we're all pinball addicts, we've played the real tables back then, we have a connection between tpa and the real machines ... but for the majority it's just a more boring game than pfx - so why should they buy another and less attractive pinball game? a fair question.

and it's the majority, the non pinball playing people who really counts - it's not us, we don't count - farside could never survive with just a few pinball nerds buying their game. they HAVE to get the "i'm-not-interested-in-pinball-people" into the boat otherwise there is no chance that this pays off.

 

[bavelb]

You have an insight into how many people play their game and pay for stuff? And into their macro-economic model on how many of those they need to be selfsustainable?

All I know is 3 million downloads 1 month ago (before PS3 demo became available and TPA was Editors choice on Appstore), a facebook page with just as many likes as Zen's, a kickstarter that got funded prior to the halfway point, the most subsequent members online on this forum the day of 1 platforms DLC release and a fanforum that sees it's members grow faster on a week to week basis.

You are essentially saying "Pinball fx is very big therefor a smaller company can't turn a profit". How big Pinball FX is has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with how viable Farsight is as a company. Farsight is 20 years old, making games since the NES, I have a hunch they know what they are doing.

 

[The Doctor]

Sony has already said the PS4 will not be backwards compatible...

(citation needed)

 

[PiN WiZ]

The Pinball Arcade is rising in popularity much quicker than Pinball FX did when it first came out, will be available on at least 10 platforms by the end of this year, will have over 40 tables by the end of next year (a feat that by that time will have taken Pinball FX(2) over six years to accomplish), has unprecedented support and dedication by a Development Team that is FULLY focused on it, a core user base that is willing to pitch in and help bring the biggest licensed tables of all time and will have Android, iOS, Mac and PC to get it through the transition from The Pinball Arcade to The Pinball Arcade 2 on next generation consoles.

The Pinball Arcade is just getting started and I've already seen more buzz for this game than I've ever seen for Pinball FX(2) (and that game is considered a huge success) and I don't see any reason why anyone should think otherwise.

 

[Franky]

You have an insight into how many people play their game and pay for stuff?

no, of course not - but come on, computer pinball is and always will be a niche product or why do you think tpa is available on a zillion platforms? just because the whole thing pays off in the end.

How big Pinball FX is has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with how viable Farsight is as a company.

i didn't say something like that, i say for a niche product like computer pinball it's quite hard to survive if a) a popular game is already out and b) it has nothing more to offer than nostalgica in a perfect form. So if someone is not really a pinball oldskooler the pfx tables offer way more excitement whilst tpa is on one hand a perfect recreation for people who KNOW the original but on the other hand is boring and more frustrating to new folks.

I too hope that all work out well but this are things to consider as well - often the brightest flame burns quickest.

and btw. a lot of "buzz" and "likes" means nothing.

 

[Bonzo]

So if someone is not really a pinball oldskooler the pfx tables offer way more excitement whilst tpa is on one hand a perfect recreation for people who KNOW the original but on the other hand is boring and more frustrating to new folks.

I think I am living proof that you are wrong. I have played a lot of virtual Pinball ever since David's Midnight Magic but I rarely had the opportunity to waste money on real pinball machines. Still I prefer the simulation of a real machine (even if it has never been built, like the Pro Pinball tables) to one that has a video game feel to it. I guess it's comparable to racing games, some like Need for Speed-style arcade racers and others prefer games that are closer to being a simulation like GranTourismo. Nonetheless both franchises are huge...

 

[BonzoGonzo]

besides, a (large?) chunk of people that bought zen/pinballfx are oldschool pinballheads, that never had a better option

i know i really dug pinballfx(2) untill tpa came out... and i just cant play non-tpa pinball anymore at all

well, besides real pinball

 

[bavelb]

i say for a niche product like computer pinball it's quite hard to survive if a) a popular game is already out and b) it has nothing more to offer than nostalgica in a perfect form. So if someone is not really a pinball oldskooler the pfx tables offer way more excitement whilst tpa is on one hand a perfect recreation for people who KNOW the original but on the other hand is boring and more frustrating to new folks.

I've played a total of 10, maybe 20 games of pinball in my life. Space shuttle, world cup championship, red and ted....and thats about it. we didnt have arcades here, it was all videogames with 2/3 pinball machines and I played those. I only got " hot" for pinball after playing Williams collection on PSP. I still prefer real tables and their rulesets over the floaty physics and "videogamey" pinball. I appreciate what it tries to do, but if I want to play videogames, I play videogames, when I want to play pinball, I want to play real pinballmachines or the next best thing.

Strangely enough my 6 yr old far prefers TOTAN and Black hole over any Zen table as well.

I think the market is far bigger then you assume.

 

[Dutch Pinball ball]

edit

wrong topic

 

[Matt McIrvin]

Pinball fans like to have more pinball. Fantasy pinball doesn't particularly grab me, but I've been tempted to buy Pinball FX just to have more tables on my XBox. I'd guess the reverse would also be the case.

(And most of the tables in PHoF and TPA were actually new to me, though if/when they get Twilight Zone and ST:TNG out, they'll be old friends.)

 

[RetroDude]

I like PINBALL.
Real pinball.

Fantasy pinball, with animation and effects not possible on real machines? Not so much.
I did like (and still DO like) Pro Pinball, but that was because it was the best and only option around short of buying my own machines.

There simply are not very many real machines available to me within a day's driving distance.
I'd be willing to pay a hell of a lot more than FarSight is currently selling their tables for, just to get such a good play value.

In comparison to playing real machines, the cost is dirt cheap.
Currently, the cost for these tales is real cheap to attract a general audience.
It seems to be working.

If in the future, popularity and sales dropped and it became much more of a niche market just catering to real pinheads, they could probably increase their cost on a per-game basis to support just that niche.

Unfortunately, I'm a PC only person, so I've been unable to support them through purchases yet, but you can be assured that I will buy every table they release.

I have a personal feeling (but not the backup evidence to support it) that I'm not the only one that's willing to pay a lot more to get accurate representations of real machines.
Niches can certainly work, but we're not there yet.

 

[BonzoGonzo]

damn, i guess i'm really lucky that i still have at least 3 pinball machines (they are located in a pool/billiards place), that are always kept in good, if not excellent working order, some 15 minutes away from me... and thats going with my bicycle

the last time i played there, they had No Fear, Fish Tales and Demolition Man, and they keep changing them, so you never get too bored...

used to be a lot more places like that 5-10 years back here in Ljubljana, Slovenia, but what can ya do

 

[mmmagnetic]

All this Next gen talk began the day after the Ps3 released, seriously. In this economy , with the big 3 console manufacturers hitting all time LOWS in profits. Bonus cuts, CEOs taking salary cuts, ect. The time to introduce a another wave of NExt generation hardware is FAR AWAY . The tepid successs of the Vita is evidence of it. The Wii U , was also panned by many at E3 this year. The rumours of NG machines that dont allow used games also P.o.d alot of prospective buyers , and gettting them back wont be easy . Sony PS3 and 360 are here to stay until the economies of Japan and North America dramatically get better.

I absolutely agree.

Also, don't forget that whenever the next wave of consoles comes out, people won't suddenly dump their existing systems out the window all at once. The PS2 had ridiculously long legs, and the PSP occasionally outsold the Vita in Japan.

We've seen this E3 that MS and Sony are willing to milk their existing consoles for as long as they can. And I'm perfectly fine with that - well, I'm biased because I got my 360 today In any case, I'm sure that even after the next consoles come out, a lot of people will be fine with their 360s and PS3 for at least another year or two, just like Apple devices have a longer life than some people pretend they have.

 

[mmmagnetic]

I think I am living proof that you are wrong. I have played a lot of virtual Pinball ever since David's Midnight Magic but I rarely had the opportunity to waste money on real pinball machines. Still I prefer the simulation of a real machine (even if it has never been built, like the Pro Pinball tables) to one that has a video game feel to it. I guess it's comparable to racing games, some like Need for Speed-style arcade racers and others prefer games that are closer to being a simulation like GranTourismo. Nonetheless both franchises are huge...

Same here. I can't stand fantasy tables anymore, and just started to develop a taste not only for Pat Lawlor tables, but also these oldschool tables like Firepower and Sorcerer. I have almost never played real pinball before, and yet I absolutely adore the whole genre. A good game is a good game - even if it has poorly digitized speech and only an alphanumeric display. You can really tell that industry veterans have designed these games, and their appeal survives even the transition into the digital realm.

 

[Ark Malmeida]

Strangely enough my 6 yr old far prefers TOTAN and Black hole over any Zen table as well.

I could never get my 12 year old to take a break from playing Halo to play some Pinball FX2 with me, but he's actually asked me to play TPA several times, with his favorite table at fist being Black Hole interestingly enough (although I think he's switched to TOM now). Really can't wait to show him all the new DLC tables when they make it to the 360!

 

[bavelb]

I could never get my 12 year old to take a break from playing Halo to play some Pinball FX2 with me, but he's actually asked me to play TPA several times, with his favorite table at fist being Black Hole interestingly enough (although I think he's switched to TOM now). Really can't wait to show him all the new DLC tables when they make it to the 360!

Black hole is her favourite too. I think its the clean table layout. Her second favourite is pin*bot on phof, similar deal with the playfield.