TPA Has 17 Tables Made Before 1985 And 58 Made After 1985

[HotHamBoy]

That's nearly 40 years of flipper-based pinball being completely ignored and forgotten.

Don't get me wrong, I get the appeal of the more "exciting" and feature-packed tables, but there are quite a few good games from the 70's and early 80's that shouldn't be neglected.

I think Eight Ball Deluxe is an awesome game that is more fun to play than a lot of the newer games from the last two seasons. I'd like to see Farsight dig a little deeper. Strikes n Spares! Fathom! Seawitch! Flash Gordon! Mata Hari! Alien Poker! Spirit!

I mean, SORCERER! You already made it once!

But, uh... Give me those System 11's too, yeah?

 

[Kolchak357]

I totally agree with you. I assume newer pins probably sell better and that's why we see more of them. We can't forget that FS is a business. But I love when we see an older classic like 8BD. For me, they seem to have more replay value. I never tire of them.

 

[invitro]

That's nearly 40 years of flipper-based pinball being completely ignored and forgotten.

I call BS. First, the longest period you could be talking about is 1947 to 1971: that's 24 years, a far cry from 40. Secondly and more importantly, the 1990's dominate TPA because the 1990's dominate pinball. Every large poll or survey (or list of most valuable machines, or machines most used in major tournaments, etc.) that I've seen picks 1990's games at about the same rate as all other decades combined, and often by a few multiples. For example, every single one of the top 12 tables on IPDB are 1990's tables, and that includes EM's with 15 or more ratings. The next highest-rated eras are 2000-present, then the late 1980's. This is exactly how tables are represented in TPA, and that's how it should be.

I concur with liking EBD (a lot), but let's get a grip here, people. I challenge anyone to find some objective measure that says that the 1990's are not far and away the Golden Age of pinball. (And remember that while one individual's poll vote is subjective, the result of a large poll that adequately samples the population is objective.)

 

[relaxation]

Less than 1% can play this game strictly enough to score well, which games do you suppose the masses would want to play on?

 

[invitro]

Less than 1% can play this game strictly enough to score well, which games do you suppose the masses would want to play on?

I guess the smbhax survey answers that question?

 

[BStarfire]

The 90's represented a great resurgence of pinball after video games had marginalized them for several years.

However, nothing can compare with the 70's, which was the Golden Age of pinball. The pinball industry made more money than the movie industry and there were vastly more machines produced. They were everywhere...gas stations, laundromats, grocery stores. Mainstream America was familiar with pinball.

Addams Family had 21000+ production? If you count the variations (2 player, four player, aab) many machines were between 10-20 thousand in the 70's, but with many more titles per year from a larger number of manufacturers.

The 90's were a great time for pinball, but does not come close to the impact pinball had in the 70's.

 

[Gorgar]

I call BS. First, the longest period you could be talking about is 1947 to 1971: that's 24 years, a far cry from 40. Secondly and more importantly, the 1990's dominate TPA because the 1990's dominate pinball. Every large poll or survey (or list of most valuable machines, or machines most used in major tournaments, etc.) that I've seen picks 1990's games at about the same rate as all other decades combined, and often by a few multiples. For example, every single one of the top 12 tables on IPDB are 1990's tables, and that includes EM's with 15 or more ratings. The next highest-rated eras are 2000-present, then the late 1980's. This is exactly how tables are represented in TPA, and that's how it should be.

I concur with liking EBD (a lot), but let's get a grip here, people. I challenge anyone to find some objective measure that says that the 1990's are not far and away the Golden Age of pinball. (And remember that while one individual's poll vote is subjective, the result of a large poll that adequately samples the population is objective.)

1. He is clearly talkin about the period from 1947-1985
2. The majority of TPA players vote for 90s tables because they are nostalgic for this era, which doesn't necessarily mean they are all fun. Would it make more sense for Farsight to pay for an auxiliary license for Rescue 911 because a few people that are nostalgic about it really want it or to just do a classic like Paragon?
3. I agree that the 90's tables are the most wanted and have most of the best tables (although even WMS has a few duds). However, Farsight puts an emphasis on mobile platforms. Mobile games are for killing time while taking a crap at work. I don't have time for a multiple hour game of Scared Stiff while pooping. I really wish Farsight released much more poop friendly games.

 

[Kolchak357]

Depends on how you define golden age.

Pinball machine models by decade per IPDB
1950's 495
1960's 518
1970's 840
1980's 518
1990's 220

I agree that pins from the 1990's are the most popular with people playing TPA today. But golden age of pinball, not to me.

 

[karl]

I totally agree with you. I assume newer pins probably sell better and that's why we see more of them. We can't forget that FS is a business. But I love when we see an older classic like 8BD. For me, they seem to have more replay value. I never tire of them.

As always, wise words from you, Sir

 

[invitro]

The pinball industry made more money than the movie industry and there were vastly more machines produced. They were everywhere...gas stations, laundromats, grocery stores.

The 90's were a great time for pinball, but does not come close to the impact pinball had in the 70's.

I'd like to see a source for your claim that pinball made more money than movies in the 1970's.

Weren't there about twice as many more machines made in the 1970's than in the 1990's? I can't find my Daina Pettit graph, but I remember it being about that. I don't think there were any more titles per year in the 1970's than the 1990's, but I suppose it's worth checking.

Pinball machines were everywhere in the 1990's, at least where I lived and every place I visited, all over the US from San Diego to New York City and most points in between.

 

[invitro]

1. He is clearly talkin about the period from 1947-1985
2. The majority of TPA players vote for 90s tables because they are nostalgic for this era, which doesn't necessarily mean they are all fun. Would it make more sense for Farsight to pay for an auxiliary license for Rescue 911 because a few people that are nostalgic about it really want it or to just do a classic like Paragon?
3. I agree that the 90's tables are the most wanted and have most of the best tables (although even WMS has a few duds). However, Farsight puts an emphasis on mobile platforms. Mobile games are for killing time while taking a crap at work. I don't have time for a multiple hour game of Scared Stiff while pooping. I really wish Farsight released much more poop friendly games.

1. I don't think so; the 1972-1985 period is obviously not "completely ignored" by Farsight.

2. That is bullsh1t. You don't know why TPA players vote for 1990's tables. Can you explain why the (top of, at least) smbhax list is virtually identical to the IPDB list, or the Pinside list, or the list of most valuable tables, or the list of tables most used in major tournaments? Is it a requirement to be nostalgic about the 1990's to be allowed to express your opinion of pinball tables on all of those websites, to be allowed to purchase a pinball machine, or to play in a major pinball tournament? And everyone agrees that R911 was a rotten choice. But we're not talking about R911; we're talking about the entire decade of the 1990's. And Paragon is not a classic by any objective measure. It was only the 4th best selling Bally of 1979, and is ranked only #124 on IPDB.

3. Farsight doesn't put any more emphasis on mobile than it does on PC.

 

[invitro]

I agree that pins from the 1990's are the most popular with people playing TPA today.

Do you agree that they're the most popular with any group of people who have publicly expressed their opinion in a poll or survey? Well, you'd have to, as it's a fact.

 

[Kolchak357]

Many folks find pins from the 90's to be the pinnacle in pinball design. Nobody's opinion is wrong when it comes to their favorites. My two favorite pins are Addams Family and AC/DC, but my favorite pin era is from around 1975 to about 1985. Played them a lot as a kid and enjoy the rules and play of pins for that era. So I get excited when a pin from that era is added to TPA. But I'm not trying to bash modern pins by saying I love 8BD and pins like it. I actually enjoy most types of pins, other than those flipperless things.

 

[BStarfire]

And while I'm thinking about it, since this was my area of study, a poll is only significant with a correct sample size but most importantly, a random sample. Any polls or surveys that have voluntary participation have no statistical significance to the population at large, though they may be interesting or useful in other ways. Also, a survey, poll, random poll...all have different interpretations.

Of course, with surveys here on TPA there is no goal to represent the larger population...it is a voluntary vote which serves its purpose. Just don't confuse it with statistically significant.

 

[Jeff Strong]

The 70's were the golden age of pinball in terms of popularity and availability. Arcades WERE pinball in the 70's and everyone, I mean EVERYONE played it because that's all there was to play lol. Plus pinball machines were in every bar, every restaraunt, every mom and pop shop, etc.

The 90's would be a 2nd golden age in terms of the quality of the gameplay, but not even close to the 70's in terms of popularity and quantity. Most arcades that I went to only had a couple pins by this time (there were exceptions but they were rare) and many arcade goers didn't even play them, but went straight for the fighting games and whatever else was hot at the time.

With that said, it makes sense that the majority of the pins in TPA are the newer stuff since they're the most popular and have deeper rulesets, more eye candy, and what not. I prefer the older stuff too, but I definitely get it.

 

[BStarfire]

That's right...TPA is representing what sells best now, which seems to be 90's and later, partially because everyone today knows the 90's machines but not everyone today knows the earlier ones.

So I don't have any issues with the majority of tables being newer, but I'd like to see a couple early 80's a season and a couple EM's.

 

[DanBradford]

I think they have it about right. The older the game, the simpler and less complex the rules (good or bad depending on your viewpoint) but also the older are the fans of that game. Sad to say it, but I don't think FS are chasing the silver surfers as (I'm assuming) they play less video games and care less about 'screen time' than younger folks. I'm in my forties, most of my pinhead buddies in the UK are in our 40s, this means that most of us were first able to go to pubs and clubs in the period from 1985-1995. I think FS is just appealing to the most common type of pinhead, an overweight middle aged man.

 

[invitro]

Many folks find pins from the 90's to be the pinnacle in pinball design. Nobody's opinion is wrong when it comes to their favorites.

It's not many folks. It's most folks. I honestly don't understand how this can possibly be remotely controversial.

I'm not claiming 1990's pinball is better, or that any individual opinion on the quality of a machine or era of pinball is right or wrong, or that every (or even most) 1990's machine is good, or that not many 1970's machines are as good as many 1990's machines. Here's what I am claiming:

1. The pinball machines from the 1990's are, on average, much more popular than those of any other decade. In particular, they are vastly more popular than machines of the 1970's, and this notion is clearly supported by numerous measures (and every measure I know of).

2. @HotHamBoy's claim that TPA has "completely ignored and forgotten" pinball machines from 1972 to 1985 is utter nonsense. What can be said: they are less represented than pinball machines from 1986-1999, which is good and just, as they are much less popular.

 

[Gorgar]

1. I don't think so; the 1972-1985 period is obviously not "completely ignored" by Farsight.

2. That is bullsh1t. You don't know why TPA players vote for 1990's tables. Can you explain why the (top of, at least) smbhax list is virtually identical to the IPDB list, or the Pinside list, or the list of most valuable tables, or the list of tables most used in major tournaments? Is it a requirement to be nostalgic about the 1990's to be allowed to express your opinion of pinball tables on all of those websites, to be allowed to purchase a pinball machine, or to play in a major pinball tournament? And everyone agrees that R911 was a rotten choice. But we're not talking about R911; we're talking about the entire decade of the 1990's. And Paragon is not a classic by any objective measure. It was only the 4th best selling Bally of 1979, and is ranked only #124 on IPDB.

3. Farsight doesn't put any more emphasis on mobile than it does on PC.

1. Did you not read the name of this thread?
2. Xenon won a poll for pre 1980 table (and it isn't even a pre 1980 table). The only logical conclusion I can draw from this is that people either voted for it because they remember it or because of the nice flashy lights (which doesn't necessarily make for a good table.)
3. Farsight also emphasizes PC, probably more than mobile due to the ease of them release table updates. However, for me, I buy a season pack on console and a few tables on mobile that I know I can play while pooping. If Farsight doesn't want my pooping money, fine. I'll save a few bucks. But I would prefer if my popping experiences can have more of a variety.

 

[wolfson]

The 70's were the golden age of pinball in terms of popularity and availability. Arcades WERE pinball in the 70's and everyone, I mean EVERYONE played it because that's all there was to play lol. Plus pinball machines were in every bar, every restaraunt, every mom and pop shop, etc.

The 90's would be a 2nd golden age in terms of the quality of the gameplay, but not even close to the 70's in terms of popularity and quantity. Most arcades that I went to only had a couple pins by this time (there were exceptions but they were rare) and many arcade goers didn't even play them, but went straight for the fighting games and whatever else was hot at the time.

With that said, it makes sense that the majority of the pins in TPA are the newer stuff since they're the most popular and have deeper rulesets, more eye candy, and what not. I prefer the older stuff too, but I definitely get it.

Jeff totally agree,as long as they throw a couple of oldies every season,i`m very happy !!!