TPA versus your average Real Life Machine

[Bowflex]

Anywhere I go, I always try to find real machines to play on. I use the pinfinder app and I always peek in to the game room for pizza places or movie theaters that might have them. I have been on assignment to a hotel in Maryland for the last couple months and they recently had a convention called Magfest. They converted an entire ballroom into an arcade and even had about 10 pinball machines. I am accustomed to finding issues with pinball machines, even at places like the Pinball Hall of Fame in Vegas, but this was just a reminder of how good The Pinball Arcade is. Of the games they had, 2 never even functioned, at least 4 or 5 had one or more flippers not working (and you thought black hole was unforgiving when it works normal!) and other major problems on all the other tables. They had a STTNG and launching probes were not possible. Dr. Who may have been working but I swear I saw the same guy every day playing on it. Another interesting thing is that the physics problems that "never happen on real machines" were very prevalent. I saw balls do amazing things to defy the laws of physics, most likely from the playfields being warped and/or the tables not being level.

It might be the first time I just could not really enjoy myself playing pinball. It was refreshing to know how we don't have to put up with all the maintenance required to keep our virtual tables running smoothly and while they are not perfect and have some glitches, tables not cared for in real life are far more problematic and just not enjoyable.

 

[Carl Spiby]

Ah yes but virtual tables are 'too perfect'.

Real tables do get air-balls occasionally, ball running over plastic where it shouldn't but on the whole, a well loved machine should be just as reliable.

Also you don't get the 'english' or 'spin' in TPA as you do on real tables.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

I was playing propinball yesterday and BRUSA has an adjustment for wear and flipper strength and pitch.

 

[fenderbendr]

I was playing propinball yesterday and BRUSA has an adjustment for wear and flipper strength and pitch.

Also, the ball spin is very present in BRUSA and Fantastic Journey. If only TPA could implement spin...

 

[superballs]

Spin would be awesome. I'll keep quiet on that until flipper mechanics are ironed out.

I was playing some High Roller Casino or some-such game that i'm not too familiar with and it had a bank of drop targets on the right and i could regularly hit the bank twice with each shots (bank faces mostly downwards). Was really cool i would smack a target and the ball would bounce down toward the flippers an inch or so and then roll back up to hit another target.

As a bowler i love seeing stuff like that. Reminds me of one of my bowling balls, which drilled in a certain way (as it is) leaves my hand rotating sidewards and as it works down the lane you can see the rotation actually speeding up like the ball is winding itself up before it hits the dry part of the lane, it's really quite unreal to see. The axis even changes by about 8 degrees while the ball skids through the oil as it finds it's prefered roll axis.

Seems off topic but the two closely relate. The same as a really strong topspin on a cueball, where the cue ball stops dead after contact with another ball and then just boogies forward.

As far as the latter two Pro Pinball tables, the ball even has decals on it to show it's spin. Very advanced modelling for the time of release and even now.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

After a good waxing of my table Iget crazy spins like you described superballs, oh and I wax the balls. Sooooo FAST!

 

[night]

I was playing propinball yesterday and BRUSA has an adjustment for wear and flipper strength and pitch.

Oh man, I can't wait to see Pro Pinball back on the Mac and iPad: http://www.pro-pinball.com

 

[Richard B]

Also, the ball spin is very present in BRUSA and Fantastic Journey. If only TPA could implement spin...

Now this deflates some of the arguments of the recent FS studios tour. If Silverball could pull this off , why cant FS over a dozen yrs later?

BTW how is Silverball doing on their kickstarter?

 

[Carl Spiby]

BTW how is Silverball doing on their kickstarter?

Starts this month for Timeshock Ultra.

 

[Mark W**a]

We have a pretty beat Party Monsters out here in Pittsburgh.

Now disregarding strange things that happen (such as SDTM drains because the ball takes a weird angle due to warped/old wood), it plays nearly identically to the PBA version. They even programmed how the kicker from the BBQ Bonus hole has trouble getting the ball to the pops, and how the ball sometimes but not always does a swirl coming off the Monster Slide. That is what you call attention to detail!

Our MM is too screwed up to do a proper comparison. The kickouts are all over the place, Merlins hole is screwed up. But the ramps/loops and castle shots all feel identical to the PBA version.

As for Twilight Zone, go watch the new PAPA Pinball uploads on Youtube right now. They had a finely tuned TZ machine and the kickout at the slot machine was so perfect, they were able to abuse it just like you can on Pinball Arcade. As a result two guys were shots away from Lost in the Zone on a 3 ball, no extras game. With a machine that well tuned (minus the diverter issues they were having in the second video), it plays extremely close to the PBA version.

 

[smbhax]

Spin would be sweet. I was reminded of it watching videos at pinball.org, and in retrospect it sort of surprised me that TPA doesn't have it.

 

[Jeff Strong]

All of the machines I've played on location here in Appleton, WI are in pretty rough shape. It makes me miss my old town in Michigan, as the pins are more maintained up there. Thankfully I'm only a couple hours away and still get up there regularly.

 

[Bowflex]

All of the machines I've played on location here in Appleton, WI are in pretty rough shape. It makes me miss my old town in Michigan, as the pins are more maintained up there. Thankfully I'm only a couple hours away and still get up there regularly.

Those cheesehead sconies have no love for keeping tables in shape. ;-)

Nothing is more disappointing than seeing a table that has been rendered unplayable due to neglect though.

 

[budtki@verizon.net]

hey bowflex,

i recently experienced the same situation, since enjoying farsight's TPA, i got hungry to go play some real machines, i located a pinball arcade near allentown, Pa.- via the PINBALLSPOT web sight(cool sight, try it), the place was called the pinballparlour, they have a web sight listing their machines(50+)-the web sight is "THE PINBALLPARLOUR"- anyway, i think it was 20$ to play all machines for about 3 hours, i was stoked, we got there, and even though a lot of there machines were in good shape, it just wasn't the same as i had remembered, it was kind of a bummer, the real machines seemed crude and to mechanical... i wonder if it's just because i've gotten acclimated to playing the video versions? i really can't explain it, all i know is that TPA rules!!!!

 

[Pinballfan69]

just wasn't the same as i had remembered, it was kind of a bummer, the real machines seemed crude and to mechanical... i wonder if it's just because i've gotten acclimated to playing the video versions? i really can't explain it, all i know is that TPA rules!!!!

Well that is most likely the reason. I've been finding some pins here and there and the experience of a real machine is so much different than TPA. Real machines are really designed to lose your balls as fast as possible so you put more money into the machine.

 

[monty22001]

I went and played some real games at Nickelrama in Garland. Cheap way to go. 2.95 entrance and then 20 cents per game. Anyway, I haven't played a real machine in probably 15 years or so and it really is quite different. They had Spider-man, Transformers, AC/DC (broken sadly, that's the one I really wanted to mess with), the new Indiana Jones, Avatar, and Batman. They real thing is quite a bit different than TPA or other video pinball of course. The ball seems much 'bigger' and certainly has a lot more mass and momemtum when coming down the center. I had a lot of center drains because the balls just don't act the same. Another thing I noticed is that it can be a lot harder to get up ramps than in video. Usually if you make the angle on a video game, the ball will have the force to make the ramp. In the real deal, you had to be a lot more aware that there's a good chance it's coming back down at you.

Overall I really had a great time though. I hadn't played any of these games before and I got a few multiballs. Ramp shots were a pain though. It's a lot easier to miss them by a fraction than in video I think too. Different beasts but both great.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Well that is most likely the reason. I've been finding some pins here and there and the experience of a real machine is so much different than TPA. Real machines are really designed to lose your balls as fast as possible so you put more money into the machine.

I would say that's an exaggeration. Yes, they are designed to bring in a profit, but not to drain your balls as fast as possible. There's a balance. The machines also have to be fun and worthwhile, as well as beatable, otherwise pinball would've died off decades ago. Some are certainly more challenging than others, but pinball machines in general have gotten easier over time in terms of game length when you look at the addition of features such as ball savers and kick backs.

But if you haven't played real pinball in awhile and are very accustomed to TPA or especially Zen, then yes, real pinball is going to seem harder because it is...but that has more to do with the fact that virtual pinball is just easier, and less to do with the design of the pinball machines.

 

[Kolchak357]

hey bowflex,

i recently experienced the same situation, since enjoying farsight's TPA, i got hungry to go play some real machines, i located a pinball arcade near allentown, Pa.- via the PINBALLSPOT web sight(cool sight, try it), the place was called the pinballparlour, they have a web sight listing their machines(50+)-the web sight is "THE PINBALLPARLOUR"- anyway, i think it was 20$ to play all machines for about 3 hours, i was stoked, we got there, and even though a lot of there machines were in good shape, it just wasn't the same as i had remembered, it was kind of a bummer, the real machines seemed crude and to mechanical... i wonder if it's just because i've gotten acclimated to playing the video versions? i really can't explain it, all i know is that TPA rules!!!!

I really like going to the Pinball Parlour. I try to get there at least once a month. As much as I enjoy TPA, it just can't match the excitement and sound of the real thing. The only thing about the Pinball Parlour is that they don't have any modern Stern pins. Since you are local to me, is there anywhere you have found to play more modern Sterns? The only one I know of is Volpe's Sports Bar in Emmaus which has a Monopoly (not positive it is even still there).

 

[dtown8532]

I really like going to the Pinball Parlour. I try to get there at least once a month. As much as I enjoy TPA, it just can't match the excitement and sound of the real thing. The only thing about the Pinball Parlour is that they don't have any modern Stern pins. Since you are local to me, is there anywhere you have found to play more modern Sterns? The only one I know of is Volpe's Sports Bar in Emmaus which has a Monopoly (not positive it is even still there).

The Pinball Gallery in Downingtown has Spider-Man. They also have a Wizard of Oz on order. They're currently closed till February while moving to a new location. They will be merged with an ice cream shop just a couple blocks away.

 

[Richard B]

I would say that's an exaggeration. Yes, they are designed to bring in a profit, but not to drain your balls as fast as possible. There's a balance. The machines also have to be fun and worthwhile, as well as beatable, otherwise pinball would've died off decades ago. Some are certainly more challenging than others, but pinball machines in general have gotten easier over time in terms of game length when you look at the addition of features such as ball savers and kick backs.

But if you haven't played real pinball in awhile and are very accustomed to TPA or especially Zen, then yes, real pinball is going to seem harder because it is...but that has more to do with the fact that virtual pinball is just easier, and less to do with the design of the pinball machines.

This is true. The idea is to keep game lengths relatively short to increase profit, but keep the experience fun and substantial enough so you'll want to play it again. This is one of the reasons TZ was not popular with average players when it was initially released. I only played it once myself.