What do you think the next kick starter will be?

[Zombie Aladdin]

It looks like some of you are claiming The Addams Family will be cheap to acquire. It won't. MGM is working on a CGI remake that will be out in 2016: http://variety.com/2013/film/news/a...s-animated-movie-at-mgm-exclusive-1200781652/

I'm willing to bet less people still care about a movie from the 90's based on a TV show from the 60's.

Don't forget that the TV show from the 60's was in turn based on the single-panel New Yorker comics drawn by Charles Addams from the 30's. Not that that has any relevance to the discussion at hand, as the pinball machine was based solely on what I think was the first live-action movie.

The problem with Simpsons Pinball Party is that, while I understand that it's good, it's a modern Stern -- you don't encounter too many modern Sterns in pinball arcades, so many people wouldn't have the foggiest of how it plays.

The Addams Family was *everywhere* in the early 90s. Best selling pin, and a very well rated pin overall. It doesn't have the speed, mode depth, or insane multiballs of some of the later pinball machines, but (MHO) TAF sort of "set the stage" for any of the pinball revival era features (doubly so since TAF allowed Lawlor to create TZ).

I'm sure SPP would sell well, but I doubt as well as TAF.

Either times have changed or things are different in Los Angeles, because Stern machines on location here in LA overwhelm the other companies', ESPECIALLY The Simpsons Pinball Party. In fact, of the 323 machines discovered in Los Angeles's Pinball Map, there are 27 Simpsons Pinball Party machines (about 8.4% of all on-location machines). Here's a rundown of it and the other most numerous machines on-location in Los Angeles, as well as some fan-favorites:

The Simpsons Pinball Party (Stern, 2003): 27
Pirates of the Caribbean (Stern, 2006): 20
Shrek/Family Guy (Stern, 2006): 11 (6 Family Guy machines, 5 Shrek machines)*
The Addams Family (both versions) (Bally, 1992/1994): 9
The Lord of the Rings (both versions) (Stern, 2003): 9
South Park (SEGA, 1999): 7
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (Williams, 1991): 7
Metallica (all versions) (Stern, 2013): 6
Spider-Man (all versions) (Stern, 2007): 6
Elvis (Stern, 2004): 5
The Sopranos (Stern, 2005): 5 (compare to Monster Bash below)
Star Wars: Episode I (Bally, 1999): 5
Transformers (all versions) (Stern, 2011): 5
Austin Powers (Stern, 2001): 4
Doctor Who (Bally, 1994): 4
Fish Tales (Williams, 1992): 4
The Getaway: High Speed II (Williams, 1992): 4
TRON: Legacy (both versions) (Stern, 2011): 4
Attack from Mars (Bally, 1995): 3
Indiana Jones (Stern, 2008): 3 (not a fan-favorite by any means, but compare to IJ: The Pinball Adventure below)
Jurassic Park (Data East, 1993): 3
Revenge from Mars (Bally, 1999): 3
Scared Stiff (Bally, 1996): 3
Twilight Zone (Bally, 1993): 3
AC/DC (all versions) (Stern, 2012/2013/2014): 2
Creature from the Black Lagoon (Bally, 1992): 2 (the machines are less than 1/4 mile apart)
Elvira and the Party Monsters (Bally, 1989): 2
Monster Bash (Williams, 1998): 2
Star Trek (Stern, 2013): 2
Theatre of Magic (Bally, 1995): 2
White Water (Williams, 1993): 2
World Cup Soccer (Bally, 1994): 2
Black Knight (Williams, 1980): 1
Funhouse (Williams, 1990): 1
Indianapolis 500 (Bally, 1995): 1
Judge Dredd (Bally, 1993): 1
Medieval Madness (Williams, 1997): 1
Star Trek: The Next Generation (Williams, 1993): 1
Tales of the Arabian Nights (Williams, 1997): 1
Black Knight 2000 (Williams, 1989): 0
Cactus Canyon (Bally, 1998): 0
Cirqus Voltaire (Bally, 1997): 0
High Speed (Williams, 1986): 0
Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure (Williams, 1993): 0**
The Wizard of Oz (all versions) (Jersey Jack, 2013): 0

* These two machines have identical playfield designs and rules and are essentially palette swaps of each other. I think Los Angeles is the only location to have more Family Guys than Shreks. This may tie into the absurd quantity of Simpsons Pinball Parties here.

** While not exactly Los Angeles, Disneyland did have a Pinball Adventure machine on display, albeit turned off. It has since been removed, alongside Stern's Indiana Jones.

I haven't checked numbers for other maps, but you could probably do the same if you live in a major North American metropolitan area. I do know Simpsons Pinball Party is not nearly as prevalent anywhere else, though neither is Family Guy. Still, I do get the impression that it's the license that operators are attracted to the most, especially considering that Stern machines, by virute of being newer, are more expensive than most other machines. In fact, I know many of these Simpsons Pinball Parties used to be other things (and Family Guy machines). For instance, the Regency Theatres in North Hollywood currently has a Family Guy, but it used to be an Addams Family. QT Chicago Dogs, over 2013, went from The Avengers to Shrek and it's now a Simpsons Pinball Party. AMF Valley View Lanes used to have an AC/DC Premium, but it turned into Simpsons Pinball Party.

It appears to me that The Simpsons Pinball Party is a certain profit-maker, and in Los Angeles, that I keep seeing Simpsons Pinball Party replace other pinball machines, leads me to believe that it is the ONLY one certain to turn a profit. People walk up to the machine, see that it's Simpsons, and plunk in some quarters. They see a Twilight Zone and dismiss it as old stuff. They see a Theatre of Magic, they never heard of it and are thus not interested.

A general trend I notice is that the themes most attractive to operates are family-friendly themes and animated sitcoms. Except for Data East's The Simpsons (whose LA count is a big fat goose egg), every pinball machine with an animated sitcom license is a comparatively common sight. By contrast, science fiction, which tends to be popular with pinheads, are not very alluring for operators. As for distribution by company, Stern definitely dominates the list, with a few particularly popular machines from other companies. The three most popular non-Sterns are Addams Family, South Park, and Terminator 2, three machines so well-known that even people who know nothing about pinball have heard of them; these machines can turn a profit based on their reputation alone.

Those are my two cents. I may add more if other thoughts surface though, and I am definitely curious to hear how Addams Family or Simpsons Pinball Party is seen in other places.

 

[Kolchak357]

Interesting post Zombie. Thanks and welcome to the forum.

 

[soundwave106]

Either times have changed or things are different in Los Angeles, because Stern machines on location here in LA overwhelm the other companies', ESPECIALLY The Simpsons Pinball Party.

Hmm, my wording was poor here.

What I meant was that the "times have changed" in that pinball has, by and large, disappeared from many arcades. If there was pinball in arcades, sure, Stern would dominate (and it's interesting to see TSPP lead in LA). But there isn't a lot of pinball in arcades anymore, and I get the impression (wrong or right) that a large portion of Stern sales are to private collectors.

It would be interesting to see how other areas are, but this is my experience based on my town. I live in the St. Petersburg FL area.

Around here, in the early 1990s, a lot of places -- bowling alleys, bars and music venues, arcades, etc. -- had a pinball game. One of the ones you saw in a lot of places was, indeed, The Adams Family. (I remember seeing a lot of others that seemed to be everywhere, such as World Cup Soccer, Road Show, Jurassic Park...)

Starting in the late 1990s, they slowly started disappeared, being replaced by other video games (hunting games, golf games, etc.). A lot of the older style arcades as a whole have disappeared too, with the Gameworks / Dave and Busters style dominating.

If I wanted to play real playball, I know one place instantly that would have them: an old-school arcade called Treasure Island Fun Center that I know has pins, TSPP included. They've had pins since I've known them. Elsewise? I would have to use the Pinside map to find the *10* places in this county that still have a pinball. (There was a *lot* more than 10 locations to play pinball in this county in the 1990s, I could walk into a random bowling alley and probably find one back then. I can't do that now.)

This is the breakdown in St. Petersburg. There is a lot of Stern but not a lot of duplicates:

Monopoly (x2)
Avengers
Lord of the Rings
Cyclone
South Park
Attack from Mars
Elvira and the Party Monsters
Funhouse
Simpsons Pinball Party
Family Guy
World Poker Tour
Addams Family
Class of 1812
Terminator 3
Fishtails
Elvis

It's even sadder across the bay in Tampa. There are *4* places to play pinball, most in one bowling alley. The breakdown:

Time Warp
Simpsons Pinball Party
Wheel of Fortune
Lord of the Rings
Pirates of the Caribbean
Sharkey's Shootout
Sopranos
World Poker Tour

(I was at Cigar City Brewery today where the Time Warp is. Great brewery, but the pin itself is broken and out of order. )

So the point was more that TAF has had more exposure than TSPP, and that says nothing about the value of the pins but more the state of the industry. I will say that while I think TAF *would* sell better, if TAF is such a prohibitively expensive license, TSPP is not a bad choice as The Simpsons are well recognized as a franchise. I wonder if it would pass a Kickstarter (T2 barely did after all) but maybe it wouldn't even need one, or the Kickstarter would be cheap enough that it would be worthwhile.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

Okay, I see what you mean now. Pinball used to be everywhere in Los Angeles as well, but it was largely before my time. I do at least remember frequenting an arcade in the San Fernando Valley called All Amusement Fun Center that had 12 pinball machines including The Addams Family. It closed in the mid-2000s and reopened in Burbank, but the only machines it currently has are The Lord of the Rings and--you guessed it--The Simpsons Pinball Party. It's dwindled ridiculously in Los Angeles as well but seems to be making a slow comeback. I'm not sure if Pinball Arcade has any bearing on it, but I'm sure it must have at least a little bit, as smartphone games are very popular here. (As an idea of how pathetic the pinball scene in Los Angeles is, LA is the second most populous city in the United States, but the Los Angeles Pinball League sent only one person to Pinburgh, who was quickly eliminated. The Orange County Pinball League and the Inland Empire Pinball League each sent 5 by comparison.)

I actually spent quite the while trying to figure out what happened, because the dropoff in public pinball in Los Angeles seems more extreme than in most other cities, and it happened sooner (around 1995). I then found out it's a combination of waning interest (I'm sure everyone here understands that), Los Angeles culture working against the nature of pinball (everyone is in a hurry around here), competition with mobile gaming (mobile gaming can pass the time waiting for things which pinball was once used for), and most importantly, the rise of private collectors who buy up as many pinball machines in public as they can afford (some of whom, but not most, think they're doing a favor by "rescuing" these machines from the abusive masses).

I think The Simpsons Pinball Party will sell well. There is no doubt about that. Based on what I see just hanging out at locations where there are multiple pinball machines, people passing by WILL gravitate to The Simpsons Pinball Party first. They recognize Bart and Homer and such on the machine artwork and want to give it a try--they like The Simpsons, so this must be good, right? This machine could even become Pinball Arcade's killer app. There is one major hurdle though: The license for the show. While viewership is now pretty small compared to the likes of Family Guy or The Venture Bros., it is still a very familiar and well-liked franchise for most people, and FOX is going to wring as much money out of such a deal as it can. FOX knows The Simpsons Pinball Party will succeed. If there's going to be a massive amount Farsight needs to cough up for The Addams Family, it's chicken feed compared to The Simpsons Pinball Party. I'd guess it would be in the millions of dollars.

That being said, The Simpsons Pinball Party would be something I would want to see show up on Pinball Arcade the most. The rules are designed to be played at home, where you can play again and again. It's really beginner-unfriendly (I watch people who haven't played much pinball play this game, and they are done within 60 seconds--they wind up frustrated, but that's another issue), meaning you have to play a lot to do decently at it. Its wizard mode is extraordinarily difficult to reach. Lastly, the machine is full of mechanical parts that can break down, even more so because of its popularity: Most Simpsons Pinball Party machines I see on-location have weak flippers, unresponsive flippers, stuck flipper buttons, a stuck captive ball, broken switches and/or inserts, a nonfunctional garage door, a weak plunger, worn down artwork, a damaged DMD, broken kickouts, vandalism and graffiti, or most often, some combination of the above. Considering the sheer difficulty of its wizard mode, which requires everything to be in perfect working order (as you have to activate everything on the playfield several times), I don't see any Simpsons Pinball Party machine NOT needing maintenance along the way. It would be perfect to be able to play on one that will never break down.

Given no limitations, the other machines I'd like to play on Pinball Arcade are very recent machines: AC/DC Limited Edition, Star Trek (Stern), and The Wizard of Oz. I know this cannot be done right now though.

Incidentally, as I'm waiting for the Wii U version to come out, I would also love to see a pair of Wii U exclusive tables: Gottlieb's Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros.: Mushroom World. If Nintendo helps promote these tables, it would help sell the rest of Pinball Arcade by itself. The Wii U userbase right now is rather small, but by the looks of things, Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. 4 will come out before Pinball Arcade, and the userbase will expand dramatically by then.

By the way, arcades themselves have been dying out around here, leaving mostly chains. There are also far more Chuck E. Cheese's type arcades around here remaining than Dave & Buster's. Chuck E. Cheese's seems to have some interest in putting pinball on its locations though. I'm not sure why Dave & Buster's doesn't. (Or Boomers, for that matter.) Public pinball in Los Angeles now seems to be played mostly by either curious people or small children, which may explain why The Simpsons Pinball Party and Pirates of the Caribbean dominate. Pinball, without arcades to be at, has moved largely to bars, bowling alleys, laundromats, movie theaters, and pizza restaurants. Regency Theatres, a local chain, is in fact a PAPA sponsor and has at least one pinball machine at every location. Round Table Pizza is also a big supporter of pinball with a machine at about half of its locations.