What if TPA doesn't get more rights to Williams tables?

[Lord Boron]

I'll throw in another vote for Sorcerer.

Definitly!

 

[netizen]

I'll throw in another vote for Sorcerer.

A ROM controlled version with the new lighting on PC/PS4 will look awesome!!

 

[Rudy Yagov]

Sorcerer and Jive Time weren't included in the PS2 or 3DS versions of PHOF, and they were shoved into the "back room" on the PS3 and 360.

Might show how little they really cared for them.

I don't mind either one, really.

 

[Bowflex]

In regards to license renewal...one more point that I don't recall being brought up was the random release of T2. It was probably likely that Farsight exhausted whatever the number of tables that WMS would allow them to publish after Champion Pub and Whirlwind. There seemed to be evidence that after Goin Nuts/Flight 2k released that Tee'd Off was the next pack and the next packs after Tee'd Off/Haunted House were also to be all Gottlieb. T2 just pushed through in the middle of that. So either they still have tables left or they were able to get WMS to sign off on that table. Another reason not to be too concerned about negotiations going through.

 

[heddhunter]

I didn't realize that's what they still did.

Do you think there's ever a chance they might get back into the pinball world? Slot machines doesn't seem too far off.

You should watch "Tilt: The Battle To Save Pinball" to see what happened with WMS and pinball and why it is incredibly unlikely they will ever re-enter that market.

http://www.amazon.com/TILT-The-Battle-Save-Pinball/dp/B00A6KOV0E

It's a really good movie if you're at all interested in the business side of pinball. Interviews with George Gomez, Pat Lawlor, Larry De Mar, etc. I met the guy who made it at California Extreme last year. Nice guy.

 

[RetroDude]

I'd love me some Sorcerer action in TPA!

 

[goo_back]

I'll throw in another vote for Sorcerer.

Me too.

 

[brakel]

In regards to license renewal...one more point that I don't recall being brought up was the random release of T2. It was probably likely that Farsight exhausted whatever the number of tables that WMS would allow them to publish after Champion Pub and Whirlwind. There seemed to be evidence that after Goin Nuts/Flight 2k released that Tee'd Off was the next pack and the next packs after Tee'd Off/Haunted House were also to be all Gottlieb. T2 just pushed through in the middle of that. So either they still have tables left or they were able to get WMS to sign off on that table. Another reason not to be too concerned about negotiations going through.

They had to release T2 when they did because of the Terminator license. With the reboot movie coming up the Terminator people didn't want to license anything related to the original movies. They finally agreed but gave FarSight a really small time-frame. So it was make the T2 table right then or never.

 

[smbhax]

Farsight has stated that Playboy and Strikes and Spares will not be coming (although that is a reversal of having previously announced Strikes and Spares). After Ace High, the last reissue will hopefully be Sorcerer. Without the WMS license, the game would probably just migrate away from table reissues. Unless they can start making modern Stern/JJP games, I wouldn't see Gottlieb/older Stern tables driving adequate sales. They would still be able to keep selling WMS tables that are currently out until whatever they have contracted expires, and then all of them would disappear.
I could see them moving to original tables if the license was lost but who knows how they will sell. Fortunately it should be a non-issue as I am sure the relationship has been good up to this point and I imagine both sides wish to continue.

From the last podcast interview, it sounded like Bobby did have some idea that the number of profitable table conversions they have left will run out after--I forget exactly what ballpark figure he threw out, maybe two or three more seasons?--and did discuss the idea of a pinball construction kit for players to make their own tables, as well I think as doing original tables themselves. While I do wish they'd continue on with seasons of old (70s and earlier) Stern Electronics, Gottlieb etc tables, it *is* hard to see them selling enough of those to make it worth their while.

If they do hit that point then I kind of hope they can make a new, higher-spec game with conversions of real pinball games from this century--the newer Sterns, Jersey Jack, and whatever else might come along, even having digital releases coinciding with real-world table releases. Did Bobby mention something like that as vaguely a possible avenue? Huh can't remember for sure now, I should just go re-listen to that podcast. : P

 

[Bowflex]

They had to release T2 when they did because of the Terminator license. With the reboot movie coming up the Terminator people didn't want to license anything related to the original movies. They finally agreed but gave FarSight a really small time-frame. So it was make the T2 table right then or never.

While that is true, it is a totally different point. It seems that they may have already run out of tables by WMS to produce. The t2 license could have been useless if this was the case. So they either still had (maybe still have) tables left in their contract or they were able to at least get a one table deal negotiated while still in larger contract renewal negotiations.

 

[shutyertrap]

From the last podcast interview, it sounded like Bobby did have some idea that the number of profitable table conversions they have left will run out after--I forget exactly what ballpark figure he threw out, maybe two or three more seasons?--and did discuss the idea of a pinball construction kit for players to make their own tables, as well I think as doing original tables themselves. While I do wish they'd continue on with seasons of old (70s and earlier) Stern Electronics, Gottlieb etc tables, it *is* hard to see them selling enough of those to make it worth their while.

If they do hit that point then I kind of hope they can make a new, higher-spec game with conversions of real pinball games from this century--the newer Sterns, Jersey Jack, and whatever else might come along, even having digital releases coinciding with real-world table releases. Did Bobby mention something like that as vaguely a possible avenue? Huh can't remember for sure now, I should just go re-listen to that podcast. : P

Yes, I think the figure that was thrown out was essentially 3 more years of tables. Doing modern Stern and JJP tables would require all platforms being up to the task (Bobby jokingly said "iPad 10") for it to be profitable to consider. Ideally they would like to have an agreement with these manufacturers to have TPA included in their licensing contract as that would save FarSight from having to run kickstarters, as every table would need one.

While that is true, it is a totally different point. It seems that they may have already run out of tables by WMS to produce. The t2 license could have been useless if this was the case. So they either still had (maybe still have) tables left in their contract or they were able to at least get a one table deal negotiated while still in larger contract renewal negotiations.

FarSight had been planning on doing a kickstarter for T2 as far back as April. There is a game company that bought the exclusive rights to do Terminator video games, and that was the deadline FarSight was up against. Bobby had told me a year ago that they were leaving a slot open for TAF should they have a breakthrough in getting the licensing for that, but obviously it didn't happen this cycle. T2 essentially filled that hole.

 

[Sumez]

Do you think there's ever a chance they might get back into the pinball world? Slot machines doesn't seem too far off.

On the business side of things, it's incredibly far off. I know of 7 or 8 publicly accessible pinball machines in my entire country. In comparison, just about every pub has a bunch of slot machines, not to mention all the gloomy gambling "arcades" all over the city, or in the back rooms of convenience stores.

 

[Shaneus]

Think about it... how else are the Williams license holders going to make any money nowadays? Between TPA and the MM repro they're not exactly a cash cow. I don't think they will want to axe one of their only ways of milking the brand.

The Williams license holders are making money by making this:

 

[Espy]

The Williams license holders are making money by making this:

Which is mentioned specifically in what you quoted

 

[jbejarano]

I'm sure the Williams negotiations will end positively. They have before and they will again. Without that, The Pinball Arcade's future is greatly diminished so FarSight needs to get it done. And, the Williams rights holders are monetizing licenses that would otherwise mostly lie fallow (the odd Medieval Madness re-creation notwithstanding), so they need to get it done. I genuinely don't want to think about that license not getting extended.

I'll add one more vote for Sorceror so long as it doesn't reduce the likelihood of High Speed I & II, Black Knight 2000, F-14 Tomcat, Red & Ted's Roadshow, Earthshaker, Cyclone, or Jack*Bot being made.