What is the most overrated table in TPA?

[vikingerik]

Don't judge T2 by the post-TAF DMD era of pins, it's really not on that level. It's much more like the alphanumeric games like Funhouse or Whirlwind - get multiball, get jackpot/millions, get a sequence of awards that includes an EB (mirror/cellar/escape route). For its era T2 was perfectly excellent. Nowadays we're all used to all sorts of stacked-up modes, but in that day Payback Time during multiball was a colossal rush.

White Water is just fun though it's hard to express why. On its face, it shouldn't be: deadly bumpers, repetitive grindy shots for the rafting, unbalanced scoring, underwhelming wizard award. Yet the real machine always somehow makes me want to keep playing it.

Yes, Medieval Madness is overrated. It does everything superbly, but except for the one really sore sticking point of the Multiball Madness stacking. It's not fun to have to avoid the saucer and lose out bigtime on an accidental bounce into it. And fail to stack Trolls/Troll Madness properly and you have to go all the way around through Royal Madness for another try to be able to get Master of Trolls.

RBION is the most underrated, although most TPA players have warmed up to it by now. It's closer to TZ's spiritual heir than anything else, with a metric crapton of stuff going on. If only TPA hadn't botched it, with the game-killing lost ball and idol bonus bugs and the hacked-to-hell leaderboard.

I'd also call Monster Bash underrated. It belongs right up there with AFM and MM and TZ and TAF among the titans. It's highly rated by the numbers, but never quite seems to enter into these discussions. It gets unfairly neglected for being "AFM 3" and for rehashing overused monster/horror themes (CFTBL, BSD, Scared Stiff), but really what it does is perfectly blend them.

 

[Bowflex]

Don't judge T2 by the post-TAF DMD era of pins, it's really not on that level. It's much more like the alphanumeric games like Funhouse or Whirlwind - get multiball, get jackpot/millions, get a sequence of awards that includes an EB (mirror/cellar/escape route). For its era T2 was perfectly excellent. Nowadays we're all used to all sorts of stacked-up modes, but in that day Payback Time during multiball was a colossal rush.

White Water is just fun though it's hard to express why. On its face, it shouldn't be: deadly bumpers, repetitive grindy shots for the rafting, unbalanced scoring, underwhelming wizard award. Yet the real machine always somehow makes me want to keep playing it.

Medieval Madness does everything superbly except for the one really sore sticking point of the Multiball Madness stacking. It's not fun to have to avoid the saucer and lose out bigtime on an accidental bounce into it. And fail to stack Trolls/Troll Madness properly and you have to go all the way around through Royal Madness for another try to be able to get Master of Trolls.

RBION is the most underrated, although most TPA players have warmed up to it by now. It's closer to TZ's spiritual heir than anything else, with a metric crapton of stuff going on. If only TPA hadn't botched it, with the game-killing lost ball and idol bonus bugs and the hacked-to-hell leaderboard.

I actually don't compare any games based on display. While that feature may enhance a game, I like tables based on the layout and fun factor more than anything. T2 is just an unenjoyable game for me and I would never compare it to classic masterpieces like Whirlwind, Funhouse or many other alphanumerics as it just doesn't measure up to those.

 

[vikingerik]

Funny, I think T2's layout and fun factor are perfectly fine. It's almost identical to AFM (skull = saucer) that everyone loves. Pounding the ramps for Payback Time is always satisfying. It's T2's rules that are shallow compared to everything post-TAF and usually what folks complain about.

Actually, yeah TPA didn't get T2's ramps as smooth as on the real machine. That could be a significant source of dissatisfaction with the TPA port.

 

[Zorgwon]

Don't judge T2 by the post-TAF DMD era of pins, it's really not on that level. It's much more like the alphanumeric games like Funhouse or Whirlwind ...

White Water is just fun though it's hard to express why. On its face, it shouldn't be: deadly bumpers, repetitive grindy shots for the rafting, unbalanced scoring, underwhelming wizard award. Yet the real machine always somehow makes me want to keep playing ...
I'd also call Monster Bash underrated. It belongs right up there with AFM and MM and TZ and TAF among the titans. It's highly rated by the numbers, but never quite seems to enter into these discussions. It gets unfairly neglected for being "AFM 3" and for rehashing overused monster/horror themes

MB is ranked #3 and #4 and that should be it. There's too much MB in the game and just shooting what blink's will do it.

 

[DrainoBraino]

I don't think any of them are over rated.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

It's T2's rules that are shallow compared to everything post-TAF and usually what folks complain about.

This. I own an AC/DC, which has a nearly identical playfield to T2 (compare the two online if you don't believe me), but of course AC/DC's ruleset is more complicated than rocket science.

 

[invitro]

BS isn't highly rated. It's rather underrated if you take ipdb as a reference.

Slick Chick (a bumper yard with a gobble hole) is overrated. There are many good and complex EMs but Slick Chick isn't one of them. 3 inch flippers are more fun to play and thus the shorter ones disappeared from the market. Same happened with gobble holes.

I think Big Shot is highly rated on this forum. I believe there is a poll somewhere that could be checked. I find playing it to be dreadfully boring. But I'm just having a little poke at it.

I played Slick Chick a lot on that PC sim that had it... Microsoft Pinball, maybe? Some program with like 7 Gottliebs, including HH, Spirit of 76, Knock Out, Humpty Dumpty, maybe Baffle Ball. Slick was my favorite of them, I thought it was lots of fun.

But this is the real reason why I'm posting: can you list some of the complex EMs? I want to like EMs more, but the ones I've played seem to get real old real quick. But I haven't played many of them.

 

[Zorgwon]

I played Slick Chick a lot on that PC sim that had it... Microsoft Pinball, maybe? Some program with like 7 Gottliebs, including HH, Spirit of 76, Knock Out, Humpty Dumpty, maybe Baffle Ball. Slick was my favorite of them, I thought it was lots of fun.

Then Central Park is also fun? It's also highly rated.

But this is the real reason why I'm posting: can you list some of the complex EMs? I want to like EMs more, but the ones I've played seem to get real old real quick. But I haven't played many of them.

Joker Poker, Royal Flush, Big Indian, Fast Draw, Capersville, Buckaroo/Cow Poke, Happy Clown(Dancing Lady better?), Paul Bunyan, Capersville. None of these compare to a mode based modern table but those are actually few.

 

[kinggo]

well, EM's should have been a lot bigger to be more complex. There was no place for few hundred relays there.

 

[invitro]

Then Central Park is also fun? It's also highly rated.

Central Park seems just random to me, but I haven't played it much. I don't consider it to be lots of fun, but more fun than at least Big Shot and HD.

Thanks for the EM list, I will look at those on IPDB.

 

[Echeos]

For me Twilight Zone is also the table I think of when the word overrated comes up. I've never played the real table so I'm just talking about TPA here. For me, it lacks flow and has unfair drains. I still do play it as it's challenging and I like trying to work out the rules (I think I read them once but I mostly forget them). It's not a bad table just overrated.

Medieval Madness is another one I really want to like (AFM is my favourite table) as it should suit me and has a great sense of humour. But the ball seems to go down the outlanes a lot more frequently than other tables and I find the trolls annoying rather than amusing.

For me, the appeal of Big Shot, which I do rate is the simplicity and quiet of the table. It's a welcome relief from the later, busier tables, and hitting the bank of targets on either side is a fun challenge. There's not a lot going on but what's there is satisfying and you can really savour the sound of the ball rolling on that wood without any distractions. It just captures a particular atmosphere really well and it's a table I go back to a lot.

 

[Father Time]

T2. If it wasn't for the "now or never" licensing, I don't know if there would have really been that much urgency for it. Not sure if it is overrated since nobody really seems to love it and the demand wasn't that high before it came out.

After reading through the rules and remembering most of them I really like it. Definitely top 10 for me (or around the top 10)

 

[Richard B]

The old formula still seems to be working:

1989 - present = Great
1986-1988 = Good
1980-1985 = Okay
1979 and earlier = crap

Add the TPA modification:
Scripted = automatic crap.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

Maybe it'd be better if I understood any of the references. I have seen the Twilight Zone but I'm fairly certain I haven't seen any of the episodes it's referencing, except maybe the one with the rocket. Certainly not the gumball machine, or camera, or the piano etc.

The gumball is original to the pinball machine, as is the Powefield pyramid. Everything else is from at least one episode from the original Rod Serling series though.

You get more out of understanding the references...or perhaps less, as I personally feel they were rather haphazardly put in. The doll that gives the Extra Ball, for instance, is very out of character.

This. I own an AC/DC, which has a nearly identical playfield to T2 (compare the two online if you don't believe me), but of course AC/DC's ruleset is more complicated than rocket science.

is it really that similar? The bumpers are in different locations, Terminator 2 lacks a central lane (let alone one that ends in a dead end, has a scoop on the left AC/DC doesn't have, has a kickback that AC/DC doesn't have, etc. What the two have in common are a left ramp that leads to the left inlane, a right ramp that will sometimes lead to either a cannon or the right inlane, and the standard bottom third that all modern machines have.

Attack from Mars and Austin Powers have layouts that are closer to each other than Terminator 2 has with AC/DC, if you ask me.
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As for the topic itself, as far as tables I don't like much that other people seem to really like, they would definitely be Centaur and Gorgar. They feel like you-had-to-be-there experiences, and they are before my time. They are very tied to their decade, at least as far as artwork goes. I really do not like trends in artwork in science fiction and fantasy in the '80s, and that reflects in how while I love most cartoons, I really cannot stand most action cartoons made in the '80s (though their corny writing helped me like them less). When it comes to DMD tables, it is undoubtedly Tales of the Arabian Nights. I liked it at first, but it got tiresome fast, as all I was doing was shooting either the genie or the ramp most of the time and the music has no contrast. In addition, the sound in John Popadiuk's tables all started to feel the same for me as he used the same voice actors again and again who seem to have no range.

As far as tables that have been put in The Pinball Arcade that are highly esteemed that I don't understand why they are as such, the first one that comes to mind is FunHouse. Rudy is creepy (though I'm sure that's intentional), Rudy shots are hard because it's difficult to see the ball traveling down the left orbit, I find myself constantly shooting things that send the ball to the lower scoop (this goes for the real thing too) so all I'm doing is holding the right flipper half the time, once 11:30 hits the game forces you to do just one shot and one shot only, and I am absolutely lousy at it. I struggle to even reach 3 million points sometimes, yet people say this is a really easy table.

I initially thought the backglass portrayed Rudy pointing a gun at the machine. Considering how frustrating and repetitive it is for me, it took me a while to realize he WASN'T pointing a gun at the machine.

 

[Father Time]

Wait was that the doll that kills people? Talking Tina or whatever her name was?

 

[Zorgwon]

In addition, the sound in John Popadiuk's tables all started to feel the same for me as he used the same voice actors again and again who seem to have no range.

I think you are pretty alone with that opinion. Voiceovers and sound make the Popadiuk tables top. Are they really the same actors (The ringmaster, the magician and the genie)? The worst one is the stupid genie ("You never defeat me").

 

[Espy]

I think you are pretty alone with that opinion. Voiceovers and sound make the Popadiuk tables top. Are they really the same actors (The ringmaster, the magician and the genie)? The worst one is the stupid genie ("You never defeat me").

The lady in TOM and CV sounds like the same person.

 

[Kolchak357]

Wait was that the doll that kills people? Talking Tina or whatever her name was?

Spoiler alert: Yes, that is her. She kills Kojak! Who loves ya baby!

 

[soundwave106]

The lady in TOM and CV sounds like the same person.

Sounds that way to me. The voice actors of TotAN and Cirqus Voltaire are known and there isn't a person in common at first glance. However, to my ears it sounds to me like a couple of the voice actors are the same between CV and Theater of Magic. Unfortunately there's no credit sheet for ToM that I'm aware of...

Unrelated, I found an interview with Tim Kitzrow; I guess he's more known for his sports video game callouts, but it's interesting to find out he's done voice work for *tons* of pinball games, including at least three in Pinball Arcade: Junkyard, Attack From Mars, and the "Rod Serling" in Twilight Zone. So reusing a voice actor is a pretty common thing I guess.

 

[Bowflex]

Sounds that way to me. The voice actors of TotAN and Cirqus Voltaire are known and there isn't a person in common at first glance. However, to my ears it sounds to me like a couple of the voice actors are the same between CV and Theater of Magic. Unfortunately there's no credit sheet for ToM that I'm aware of...

Unrelated, I found an interview with Tim Kitzrow; I guess he's more known for his sports video game callouts, but it's interesting to find out he's done voice work for *tons* of pinball games, including at least three in Pinball Arcade: Junkyard, Attack From Mars, and the "Rod Serling" in Twilight Zone. So reusing a voice actor is a pretty common thing I guess.

Not to mention a couple of characters in the Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars and Who Dunnit.