What's Better, TPA or VP?

[Punisher]

Great work. Looking forward to playing it. How about a dutch pinball version

All of my this. Their setup's amazing.

Also, for me, I tried Tron Legacy on VP 9.9. It lagged SO hard. Anone know what the problem could be? I know I have a 7-year-old graphics card, but still.

 

[Eric Qel-Droma]

I tend to think of VP as a PC and TPA as a console: They both have their strengths. For the casual player, TPA is the way to go, hands-down: buy a table, download it, it runs. Sure, there are occasional bugs, but the program overall is "plug-and-play." VP can be a bear to set up, but the freedom and choice one gets is really its own reward. I, for one, have been so glad to edit a table and block the outlanes just to cheat the heck out of a "tough" table and see all the modes in action that I can't explain it to those who don't care about pinball.

I'm glad we have both choices and I hope both VP and TPA have many more tables to give us. Especially Big Hurt Frank Thomas. I seem to be the only fan of that table around here, but there it is.

 

[The loafer]

All of my this. Their setup's amazing.

Also, for me, I tried Tron Legacy on VP 9.9. It lagged SO hard. Anone know what the problem could be? I know I have a 7-year-old graphics card, but still.

What are your PC specs? IMHO the issue is more due to you running a Stern SAM table than a vp9.9.0 issue. SAM tables are certainly pushing the needed specs up a tad. Still, there are a couple of settings that can assist you under the preference menu, I think For VP9.9, try FPS vsync limiter set at 120 or 60 or 0. Also try setting max prerendered frames to 1 or 0

 

[alexb]

thanks for the tips guys i haven't got round to trying again as just changed the motherboard to an asrock 980de3/u3s3, i did the long winded installation previously with folders etc as admin and i had a lot error messages in windows and as you say you need to follow instructions to the letter! its always frustrating when your pc does something unexpected I will have another go soon just building up to it...

 

[Anderz]

TPA you can have one application installed on four different devices:your Ipad, your samsung phone, your gaming console and of course on your computer.

VP you need to have three installments of the main .exe for the older tables to work correctly on one device only...

 

[pinsam]

TPA is definitely the "plug and play" of the two, and it's even better when it's on a game console. Just pick a controller and play. VP is quite difficult to install, and if you want a simple "launcher" (frontend), that's another thing you have to do...

VP is probably at its best in one of those two-screen cabinets as a pinball experience. The desktop versions just seem kind of flat.

I´ve only recently started playing VP, and the quality between the different recreations varies wildly.

I agree, and there are some people in the community who do amazing, hi-res, totally pro quality stuff (for free!).

TPA is much more consistent for making the shots. On most VP tables, the shots wont go where they logically should go off the flipper. Some shots are impossible to make. Anything not off the tip of the flipper seems to angle in an odd direction.

I agree, VP does seem to sometimes have erratic, strange physics issues, even in VP9.90.

 

[lio]

The more the merrier... VP/FP/Unit3D/TPA...
These days I mostly play TPA though... it's just convenient, all in one GUI, no different executables for different tables to get them to play right and usually they at least look better as well (also I prefer the realtime rendered 3D nature of it).
VP has great potential and it can create really nice looking tables that play fantastic but it's a mixed bag - some tables have multiple recreations or are optimized to be played with a certain version of VP so you will always have to invest a bit more time to get things right.
I love the community around it and the fact that it's not just a "player" but also a creation tool and it's always cool to see the workarounds people come up with to get around certain limitations of the program and it's great to see that there is still life in it after all these years (I have been following VP for around 15 years now)
I really like all of the creation tools for different reasons and I think they can peacefully co-exist.
However don't forget that TPA is the only one that does it right in terms of licensing and being legit about what they do - also they can reach a far greater audience due to supporting so many platforms and I really like them for what they do by bringing pinball recreations to the masses - so even if a certain tables might be better in some other pinball player I think it's certainly worth supporting TPA by buying their product.

 

[Iguana]

VP help request:

I'll start with the bottom line:

Can anyone out there recommend the hardware and system requirements needed for me to play Visual Pinball (on a laptop)?

My goal is to buy a used laptop and use it more or less exclusively to play (no interest in creating) VP tables.

I've always used Apple hardware, but around 12 years ago I was gifted an HP laptop (which was soon ungifted due to a divorce). Since then, my only experience with Windows computers has been simple data entry at my job.

When I had the laptop all those years ago, I enjoyed the hell out of playing VP and would love to have access to it again.

I currently play all of the TPA and A.S.K. (Zaccaria) tables on my iPad... Love it, yet it sure would be a pleasure to go down memory lane and play some EM's.

I'm acquainted with a guy who has a fairly large PC shop (used hardware and repairs), and my plan is to let him know precisely what I need to get back on the VP bandwagon.

I've done a little research, and the following is what I found (from the VP site, as I recall):

Operating System: Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000

Processor: Pentium 166 or above

Graphics: 16-bit color or above

RAM: 16 megabytes (32 or more recommended)

Anything else?

-------------------------------------------

Again, I need the specs for a laptop. An advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Crawley]

Can anyone out there recommend the hardware and system requirements needed for me to play Visual Pinball (on a laptop)?

My goal is to buy a used laptop and use it more or less exclusively to play (no interest in creating) VP tables.

Operating System: Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000

Processor: Pentium 166 or above

Graphics: 16-bit color or above

RAM: 16 megabytes (32 or more recommended)

Anything else?

I imagine those requirements are out of date - like something from 1999. Here's my spitball requirements:

Operating System: Win 7 / Win 8.1
Processor: Intel Pentium i5 (any model should do)
Graphics: GeForce 660M/760M or equivalent (not sure what the AMD equivalent is). A GeForce 650M/750M may work fine as well but not 100% sure if you get slowdown.
RAM: 8gig

That shouldn't break the bank so to speak. And would likely play the upcoming VP10 iteration. You also of course want at least a 17" monitor on there, unless you are displaying on an external monitor.

But that's just spit balling. People here can probably give some real world laptop setups they have.

 

[lio]

I think 8GB is a bit excessive for VP - more than 4GB is pointless for VP, probably even 2GB are enough.
The CPU requirements may be enough for pure VP to run but as soon as you want to run tables with VPM emulation you will need at least a more modern ~1.6ghz CPU (faster is certainly better) - I remember running VP on an Athlon 1.1ghz many years ago with VPM and it was working so-so - but any more modern 2-core CPU should do.
In terms of GPU it's hard to tell right now - VP has just recently introduced support for 3D models and the more those become common and the more VP is updated those requirements will probably go up.
Right now "any" videocard with at least 512mb (1GB preferably) and a memory interface of 128bit will do (stay away from 64bit memory interface cards like the geforce 610/620 or even the mobile 8400M - at least go with a 8400M GT - a rule of thumb with nvida certainly is to stay away from xx40 and lower 650/750/850 and above is when gaming starts to become enjoyable).
I used to have a core2duo with 4gb ram, windows 7 and a geforce 8800gts (512 mb) and it ran VP perfectly fine however the 512mb of video memory became more and more of an issue with more recent tables.

 

[TNT]

If it is Windows 8 you are going for I have no problems whatsoever running VP.

I have Windows 8 but I had followed the recommendation on VP on setting compatibility mode to Windows XP. Is this not necessary?

 

[TNT]

After not playing VP for about six months and just getting back into it again both have their + and -. I think the physics on both TPA and VP are good. It seems that VP tables usually have a slightly increased virtual slope so the ball "drops" faster. However on something like F-14 TPA table slope feels the same. Maybe it's the Steve Ritchie tables? The ball drops fast. I have noticed, for me at least, it's tougher to place shots in VP (haven't tried physmod yet). It may have something to do with I am still relatively new at tweaking VP tables and their parameters. Graphically even though VP is making great strides tables still don't look as 3-dimensional as they do in TPA. Setting VP up can be somewhat of a nightmare. In fact I was ready to give up when I first tried it as I couldn't get it to work and the tutorials are quite long. If it wasn't for Jeff here on this site and his simplified instructions I most likely would never have gotten it to work before I gave up. Obviously TPA is great for plug and play. And has been mentioned the quality of tables in VP varies dramatically. The best tables are awesome but the worst tables are low in quality.

The best of both worlds is playing both.

 

[vikingerik]

Graphically even though VP is making great strides tables still don't look as 3-dimensional as they do in TPA.

This has to do with camera tricks. TPA brings the camera down and in extremely close to the table and flippers, with a very wide-angle field of view. This produces a high degree of foreshortening between the bottom and top of the playfield and that drastic 3d look. Measure the ball on your screen - it's more than twice as wide at the flippers as up at the bonus rollovers. Most viewpoints in TPA are unrealistically low and close compared to standing at a real table, as low as six inches above the flippers, but it works for TPA's purposes to produce that 3d effect on a flat screen.

VP puts the camera up where your eye level viewpoint would be on a real table, which is more true to reality but less dynamic on a flat screen. (Disclaimer, I haven't really played VP, just judging from some screenshots on google.)

 

[invitro]

A quick note: many players, including myself, often lower their head way down so their eyes are not much above the playfield. I haven't measured, but 12 inches above sounds about right. I don't know how high the VP camera is, but if it's as high as eyes are when standing straight up, that's actually less true to reality than six inches above would be .

 

[Nate]

I have vp991 physmod5 and vpx beta and none of them require compatibility mode, I also play with both altho I find that as TPA's collection grows I play vp less and less, VP wins when it comes to authentic mechanical and ball rolling/collision sounds and I like being able to tinker with the rom as I cant justify paying for pro upgrades on TPA....VP wins for table selection and physmod 5 physics are really a lot better but still rather wonky and still incapable of live catches as we have now been given the ability to do within TPA with its recent physics update, and I imagine now that farsight's deal with stern has a new a whole new catalogue about to get released that VP will be played less and less as the months go by especially if Farsight gets it together and does some sort of basic cab support that isn't based around a mod a player made for us (its really quite good), shoot if that EVER happens I may end up right clicking on my VP folder and selecting delete....

 

[SilverBalls]

The TPA live catches are ridiculously unrealistic. I perform more in 10 mins in TPA than I have in my whole life on a real table. I appreciate they maybe hard to implement but for them to keep happening without trying is crazy. For that reason VPX/Physmod physics still reign as supreme. Some VPX authors have really nailed the tuning of the new engine.

 

[Robert Misner]

I've found that VPX taxes my system beyond the usability point on some of the sample tables I've tried( frame rate dips below 30 alot probably averaging 60 tho).
But Its beta and I expect as tables makers optimize things it wll get better.
Silverball what are some of the VPX tables you most recommend?

 

[SilverBalls]

I've found that VPX taxes my system beyond the usability point on some of the sample tables I've tried( frame rate dips below 30 alot probably averaging 60 tho).
But Its beta and I expect as tables makers optimize things it wll get better.
Silverball what are some of the VPX tables you most recommend?

Hi Robert
I had a GTX480 (which is similar in performance to a 750 ti). I used to set the VP AA off and Amb Occlusion off and with nVidia FXAA set ON and I was I getting around 200fps on a heavy hitting tables using b2s too. I tended to limit frames to 120 to get smooth play. I never turned on VSync as that caused stuttery play for me. I just upgraded to a GTX 970 and am getting about 450-500 fps now, and can switch some other stuff on now in nVidia.

I am not sure why you get low fps like that- seems really low for your card/setup. Do you force VP10 to specific cores? I used to do this with VP9, but with VP10 I found it better not to do this - VP is definitely using multiple cores.

The tables I like are some of the EMs which look great darker. I tend to slide the lighting down. The modern tables I really like are Tommy, Star Trek 2013, Genesis, TX Sector. Rolling Stones looks great but the table becomes quite annoying. Rescue 911 looks pretty impressive too.

I took some FPSs before upgrading and here they are: GTX 480 1.5 GB vs GTX 970 4gb Gaming. I have an old Core i7 860 32-bit Win7 with 3.5 GB RAM.

Star Trek 2013 : 165 vs 480
Tommy : 215 vs 550
Rescue 911 : 150 vs 470

Might be worth seeing what you get with your setup for the above.

 

[Robert Misner]

my video card is ok with gtx 570 but my pinball rid is still a core 2 duo ..its probably processor dependent vs gpu

 

[SilverBalls]

my video card is ok with gtx 570 but my pinball rid is still a core 2 duo ..its probably processor dependent vs gpu

Right that might be it. How many cores - I think some had 4? As I said earlier I can see VP utilising 4 at a time and I have 8 with HT switched on so maybe by spreading the load it helps. Something maybe to try is using b2s as an EXE and force it to one core. Then force VP to the remaining (probably you need at least 3). This used to give me better results under VP9 because I understand the Pinmame emulation runs in the b2s core, whereas when not using b2s you can't force the Pinmame to a different thread so it might Hogg the VP cores. Probably makes a difference with emulation of SAM, etc. even more so.