Will Farsight allow us to transfer our tables to the PS4 version when the time comes?

[PiN WiZ]

If you bought a movie from PSN to play on your PS3, would you expect to be able to play it on your PS4?

I'm referring to overhauled next generation versions of the tables in The Pinball Arcade, not straight ports that have to be emulated on the new hardware. I've also already stated that I agree we should get to port our tables to the new hardware free of charge if they are indeed straight ports, but these will not be straight ports which means development costs will become a factor.

 

[Jeff Strong]

If you bought a movie from PSN to play on your PS3, would you expect to be able to play it on your PS4?

Yes, but that would be the exact same content on both devices/consoles. TPA on PS4 will not be the exact same content it they totally overhaul the graphics.

Edit: what PW said I was still on the last page when I replied.

 

[Tabe]

Yes, but that would be the exact same content on both devices/consoles. TPA on PS4 will not be the exact same content it they totally overhaul the graphics.

In a roundabout way, what you're saying is that we should be able to play our PS3 versions of TPA (and DLC) on the PS4. And I completely agree with you.

Despite what Mark has said above, backward compatiblity is not impossible. If Sony wanted to do it, they could (via hardware chips added to the PS4 or software emulation), they've just chosen not to.

 

[spoonman]

Didn't mean to open the can of worms so soon, but this topic will be more prevalent as the PS4 release draws nearer.

When people who own both the PS3 AND PS4 will have to decide... "Do I buy the newest Pinball Arcade DLC for my PS3 and have it join all the others
or do I buy it for the PS4 version of TPA and have to switch between the PS3 and PS4 in order to play different tables?"

It's as much a matter of convenience as it is a monetary issue.

Also, I really believe Zen Studios will let us transfer our PS3 DLC to the PS4 version. I would be very surprised if they said no.

Came in here to say this.

Don't expect them to overhall 42 tables to a new and improved engine and not have to pay them for the work. This isn't going to be a copy and paste, they'll have to redo the graphics for each and every table and that takes time and costs money. Noone should be complaining about this.

And if it bothers you than dont upgrade noone is forcing you to.

I don't expect them to overhaul 42 tables. I expect them to make a new version of TPA that is B/C with their existing table code.
If it can run one TPA table it can run ALL TPA tables. I would expect them to add some new T&L features.

They actually just commented on this (about not being able to comment on this)
From FACEBOOK

The Pinball Arcade We can't comment because we don't know at this point. We are still investigating what we can and can't do and what Sony will let us do.

 

[PiN WiZ]

spoonman, I see absolutely nothing wrong with this topic and I agree that it's a good way for FarSight to see what their consumer's concerns and expectations are for The Pinball Arcade on the next generation of hardware. Even though I have my own opinions on the subject, I still respect everyone else's opinions.

 

[pinbot-76]

If FS really had to painstakingly reproduce these tables, I'd rather they leave them alone for the PS3 and move onto new titles. They probably won't do that though, because the heavy lifting has already been done and it will be an easy port, even with whatever graphic enhancements they can muster.

 

[smbhax]

They actually just commented on this (about not being able to comment on this)
From FACEBOOK

Ah so they are still figuring out if it's possible. Thanks for passing that along!

 

[shutyertrap]

Been gone all day, so haven't been able to comment...

Okay, with regards to a director's cut of a movie coming out a year later. This is actually going to be the case with The Hobbit, which I just bought yesterday. There will indeed be an extended cut come December. Knowing that, I had to decide if I wanted to wait or go ahead and purchase now. I was able to make an educated decision. I get what is being said, that the studio is not going to upgrade my disc for free, nor are they even going to offer me a discount. Well, actually they probably will in terms of including 'movie cash' for the next Hobbit which will release at that same time.

Anyways.

The same argument can be made for Angry Birds. If you want it for the iPad in HD, you have to re-buy it. You want Star Wars Angry Birds, or Space, that's a whole 'nother purchase. I get it, I truly do. But then, those are really only going to set you back $10 total, so it's no big deal.

Back to the movie analogy though. What pisses me off, and turns me off from a studio, is when they release a movie and then 6 months later release it again with all sorts of bells and whistles. Miramax / Weinstein had a whole leaked memo about this, where that was their strategy. Hate them for that. Because of that I tend to wait a while on their releases. They split up the Grindhouse movies, didn't buy. Waited for the true Grindhouse package to be released, and it was eventually. Still waiting on the Kill Bill Whole Bloody Affair release. Well, I bought on DVD before that was even a known property, but I refuse to buy it on Blu till they do it proper. Haven't bought Nolan's Batman trilogy 'cause you just know an uber box of it will come out soon.

So you see? I just want to make informed buying decisions. There are exceptions to the rules in every format in terms of what is given away and what isn't. Just look at 'game of the year' editions of games, where they are packaged with all the dlc maps for free. You gotta weigh whether you wanna play it now, or wait a year when you know it'll inevitably be packaged that way. As much as I love God of War and as much as I'm gonna wanna play 'Last of Us', I think I'm gonna wait for the inevitable GOTY editions. I didn't do that with Uncharted 3, because I just plain couldn't wait.

 

[DrainoBraino]

Sony execs were asked directly about this issue. Here's the video of the response:

 

[dtown8532]

Above video = Priceless!

I don't if it's been brought up yet but what about the TZ and ST:TNG licenses for the next gen consoles. Meaning if FarSight recreates the tables again for thr PS4 and Xbox whatever do they need to pay the license holders again? Will they need another Kickstarter? Was there already a deal worked out to include future platforms or maybe FarSight has the license rights for the next couple years? Ideas?

 

[Mxyzptlk]

Personally I would prefer the Wii-U model. Small upgrade fees for tables already purchased on the PS3. However, knowing very little about the PS4 and how Sony will handle PSN purchases made on the PS3 means I have no idea if this is realistic or not. I won't be picking up a PS4 for a few years, so hopefully both platforms will continue to be supported.

 

[brakel]

Above video = Priceless!

I don't if it's been brought up yet but what about the TZ and ST:TNG licenses for the next gen consoles. Meaning if FarSight recreates the tables again for thr PS4 and Xbox whatever do they need to pay the license holders again? Will they need another Kickstarter? Was there already a deal worked out to include future platforms or maybe FarSight has the license rights for the next couple years? Ideas?

I think they pay an upfront blanket fee and then a per unit sold fee. I don't think the license holders care what platform it is sold on as long as they get their per unit sold fee.

 

[Mark W**a]

In a roundabout way, what you're saying is that we should be able to play our PS3 versions of TPA (and DLC) on the PS4. And I completely agree with you.

Despite what Mark has said above, backward compatiblity is not impossible. If Sony wanted to do it, they could (via hardware chips added to the PS4 or software emulation), they've just chosen not to.

Of course it's possible. But neither Sony nor MS is doing it.

But it's moot anyway. Because even if BC were in, there's a difference between running the PS3 version of Pinball Arcade via BC and running the all new PS4 version. A version that was built on a PS4 dev kit (that costs money) that is rewritten code to take advantage of the hardware (costs money) that they have to get 40 tables working with (costs money).

I'm referring to overhauled next generation versions of the tables in The Pinball Arcade, not straight ports that have to be emulated on the new hardware. I've also already stated that I agree we should get to port our tables to the new hardware free of charge if they are indeed straight ports, but these will not be straight ports which means development costs will become a factor.

I agree. If they are just intending on slapping the same exact PS3 tables in there with no graphical improvements and calling it a day, I will raise major hell. But, Farsight is on record saying that is not the case. Let's hope they aren't BSing us. The least I expect from the PS4 version is, new lighting engine for all tables, and improvements and some improvement in IQ. New lighting is more than just "slapping in PS3 tables boom new lighting works", it requires them to go back and do it on a table per table basis.

At most I'm expecting "the works", high levels of AA, AF, improved geometry (that's wishing but I hope), improved textures (they have 2K assets on iPad already), and hopefully a full 1080P stereoscopic 3D mode, and a lighting slider since PS4 can do real time lighting. We'll see what we actually get.

Regardless my whole point is, this is PS4 is an entirely new platform with it's own set of challenges and work. Just like every other platform. The problem is people don't realize that iPhone 4 and 5 are the same platform, PS3 and 4 are not.

 

[Mark W**a]

Reading threads like this convinces me there is a video game crash coming.

Anyways. Most of this is the same rhetoric, and can be answered very, very simply.

Research the difference between Backwards compatibilty and a port of a video game.

They are not the same. That covers about 80% of the arguments I'm reading.

Wow. Super insulting/condescending tone. Have to retort your argument. You seem to be stuck on the notion of "free". I'm not talking about free. If Farsight get's a $1.50 upgrade free for each table, then based on just the tables released so far, if someone rebuys them all (as I think many would at a reasonable upgrade cost like that) they'd make something like $39. What did those PS2-to-PS3 HD-remake games/collections cost from Sony? $40 right? Argument defeated. They aren't getting screwed, and neither are we if they do so. And all the "it won't work" and "Sony won't allow it" BS is just that, none of you know jack yet about what Sony will or won't allow/do, and my money says that flexibility in matters just such as this is a place that Sony might just be looking to get a leg up on MS's horrible policies. Look at how Nintendo has changed their tune.

BTW, let's all stop pretending they are developing Uncharted 4 over here. It's pinball. It doesn't even have that great of graphics (as of now). Just because they are rebuilding the engine for PS4 (which due to architecture has like a 99% chance of just being a modified version of their PC graphics engine anyway) doesn't automatically mean they are spending $100 Million on TPA for PS4, or that it's going to be 100% photo-realistic perfection.

Couple other points: 1. There is more to the Wii-to-Wii U Virtual Console ports than you are mentioning, not a lot, but enough to have value to some (MiiVerse, not having to change the orientation of the picture on your TV, etc.). 2. The 360-to-PC because it's MS argument is ridiculous, and one no-one is making, though there are probably a ton of people who would take them up on it if offered as an apology for the debacle that has been the 360 TPA experience. 3. The whole DMC with receipts joke doesn't hold water either because those games where not available as digital downloads when new. "The game" is different when you take the brick-and-mortar (and the disc/box) out of the equation. It just is. The digital download media world has different expectations from consumers. Ask Apple. If you buy a new computer, do you plan to re-buy all the music/video you have in iTunes? It's not a perfect analogy, but it's at worst as good as the one's you were using, and even more to the point, remember iTunes Plus upgrades to DRM-Free, higher quality audio versions of all the songs everyone bought in the earlier days of iTunes? It's the same song you already bought, just better. Better graphics on pinball tables you already own, is a lot more like that to a lot of people (and I'm talking especially beyond the kind of core fans who post here) than you seem to think. I bet Zen is going to do an upgrade path if Sony/MS will let them, or if they don't intend to upgrade all their tables, they'll probably at least make sure they make it to where you can get all your (already purchased) tables at their existing PS3 quality (maybe with any little bugs worked out) on your PS4. Why wouldn't FS?

Paragraph 1: I'm not opposed to a discount program. Sure, why not. Tie it in with PlayStation Plus? If Farsight chooses to do this it would be a nice, good-will on their part. But they aren't required to do so. And you're not entitled it.

Paragraph 2: Everything is a modified version of PC code. That's how game development works. 360 version is the lead but it's still built on a PC first. That doesn't mean "automatic PC version" either. Doing a PC version itself requires work, as well. A lot of work, to make a version that will be compatible with most PC rigs. All of this porting to different platforms requires lots of work and man hours.

As far as saying the game doesn't look good, I wholeheartedly disagree with that. The console version have a high level of geometry and good lighting, render at 1080P, and run a full clip 60 frames per second. They look fantastic. They aren't perfect, but considering the hardware they look great.

Paragraph 3: 1, nope. Wii U has full hardware backwards compatibility. Running old WiiWare and Virtual Console stuff requires little to no work on Nintendos part. It's simply not comparable and you're uninformed to think it's the same as porting a game to a new console and engine. 2, no it isn't. It points out the entitlist stupidity pretty well. It just goes to show that you can't look past the fact that you feel owning PlayStation 3 version entitles you to own the PlayStation 4 version for free or discounted, despite the fact that, just like the PC version, it's a completely different platform. Again, I blame Apple for this mentality. I agree, it would be really nice if they offered the first 10 tables free or discounted to 360 owners on PC and considering what we are still going through, it would be a great goodwill on their part, but they don't have to. 3,

"The game" is different when you take the brick-and-mortar (and the disc/box) out of the equation. It just is.

This is your counter argument? "It just is". Wow, amazing. You must have won tons of debates in college. You are seriously going to sit here and compare downloading a higher bit rate version of an MP3 with a port of a video game to a new platform. Seriously. If you honestly think that's a valid argument, then I don't know what to tell you. Just stop. 4, I have no idea how Zen is going to handle their inevitable PS4 version. If I had to guess, I would think that they are going to wait. They will probably do a Zen 3 on PS4 with an entirely new engine. If they are just porting their crappy PS3 engine over but upping to 1080P that's a huge mistake. But we'll see. Let's not speculate on what other companies may or may not do, until we, you know, actually know.

If you bought a movie from PSN to play on your PS3, would you expect to be able to play it on your PS4?

If you bought a DVD does that entitle you to the Blu Ray version for free.

For the rest of you:

Backwards compatibility would be like running a DVD in a Blu Ray Player and upscaling it.

A completely new Blu Ray Movie encoded at 1080P would be like a movie company "porting" a film (by re-encoding, etc.) to Blu Ray. Not a perfect analogy at all, because porting a game to a new platform and creating a new graphics engine is a TON more work than a movie studio doing a Blu Ray version of a film! Which underscores my points in a big way!

 

[Mark W**a]

TL;DR points:

iPhone 3G, 4, 4S, and 5 are the SAME PLATFORM.

Sony PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4 are NOT THE SAME PLATFORM.

Backwards compatibility IS NOT THE SAME as porting. Not even close to the same thing.

Digital Distribution is the EXACT SAME THING as Physical Distribution except for the fact that one is physical the other is, well, digital!

Porting a video game requires lots of work, time, money, and resources. Expecting to get this work for free is entitlist and immoral!

Willy Wonka GOOD DAY SIR!

 

[shutyertrap]

Gee Mark, thanks so much for regurgitating all the same points without bothering to address any of the specific points that have been brought up. You sure put us in our place. Way to debate. Learned that from the last elections I bet, where you just ignore anything the other person says and instead lump everything together so it can be debated with 'talking points'.

My face is so red from embarrassment.

 

[DrainoBraino]

I think we're getting our signals crossed here.....

The original question: "Will Farsight allow us to transfer our tables to the PS4 version when the time comes?"

NOT: "Will Farsight give us the PS3 version on the PS4 for free?" ALSO NOT: "Will Farsight give us the option to upgrade to the PS4 version for a discount?"

See that's 3 separate things that have been debated in this thread:

1- Upgrade PS3 version to PS4 version with no charge.
2- Transfer PS3 version to PS4 with no charge.
3- Upgrade to PS4 version for a discount.

Then there's more that came up:

4- Transfer PS3 version to PS4 for a charge.
5- Stream PS3 version on PS4. (whatever that means)
6- Buy PS4 version. (aka- "You get nothing...you lose")

Ok I'm dizzy gonna go make a root beer float.

 

[karl]

Fair points from both sides but I agree with PIN WIZ on this.
Anyway I just can't stop thinking about this when I read this thread. No offense to anyone

 

[shutyertrap]

No way. Monty Python is always the appropriate tonic to what ales you!

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Karl wins the argument...or abuse...or complaining...what were we doing in this thread again...?