Will Farsight allow us to transfer our tables to the PS4 version when the time comes?

[spoonman]

I'm sure it's no surprise to anyone that the PS4 will be in our hands in a mere 8 months*
*According to Guerrilla Games & Sony
Many of us are buying up every table DLC on the PS3 and many will also make the upgrade to the PS4.

So the big question is, will they allow us to transfer our tables, much like how Zen allowed us to import all of our existing purchases to Zen Pinball 2? I know it was the same platform, but I'll use it as an example anyway.

Surely Farsight will improve on certain aspects (1080p 60fps locked even in 3D, less lag, etc...) as well as including all of the new social features the PS4 is being touted for, but will that be enough to make us buy them all over again so soon?

I'm sure this will be a tough decision for Farsight, but if they want to win over players, I think they already know the answer.

 

[DarkAkatosh]

we might be able to stream the ps3 version on ps4, thats about it.

 

[Gorgar]

we might be able to stream the ps3 version on ps4, thats about it.

What exactly does streaming entail? I know streaming is already implemented on the vita, but something about it sounds laggy. Very, very laggy.

 

[DarkAkatosh]

Games are stored on a cloud server and you connect to said server and play them from there. Like streaming Netflix except your playing a game.

 

[spoonman]

we might be able to stream the ps3 version on ps4, thats about it.

Sony has already stated that they will have all of our past purchase information so I don't think the logistics would be the problem here.

It would pretty much be up to Farsight afaik.

 

[PiN WiZ]

Personally, I would rather FarSight spend the extra time to fully upgrade and optimize every released table to fully take advantage of the PS4 and new Xbox (720?) hardware to make the presentation and gameplay of the tables as close to the real tables as possible. Of course this would come with a price tag which I would gladly pay to play next generation versions of the tables we have now and to further support FarSight so that they can continue to bring us new tables throughout the next generation of consoles.

The way I see it, if you want to play your currently purchased tables, then keep your last generation hardware.

Before anyone brings up Pinball FX and Zen Pinball...Zen allowed you to transfer your previously purchased tables because their updated engine ran on the same hardware as their previous engine.

 

[shutyertrap]

Before anyone brings up Pinball FX and Zen Pinball...Zen allowed you to transfer your previously purchased tables because their updated engine ran on the same hardware as their previous engine.

And yet you still had to download the tables again. Mike just posted that the way DLC currently works, you'd have the old version of the table and then the newly updated version would be included as well, thus the larger file size that carries over each time. I think what Zen did was a HUGE coup in terms of public relations, just spreading massive good will.

The conundrum is this though. Do I continue to spend for DLC on a platform that won't let my purchase carry over to the next gen? 'Cuz I know I won't be buying any next gen for at least 2 years, meaning that by the time I do jump on board, there might be this library of tables that will put me back north of $200 by that time. I know I'm now giving serious thought to the PC build when that comes about for that very reason.

But I have a solution that could make consumer and manufacturer happy.

You notice that with most Blu-Ray discs released now, a DVD copy is packaged with it. As a Blu-Ray owner, I could care less about it. But for a little while I wasn't a Blu-Ray owner, and the sole reason I bought my first disc of it was because it came with the DVD, yet only cost $3 more than the DVD only package. Knowing I'd be upgrading eventually, that is what I bought. So maybe once FarSight can actually talk about next gen (could you hear Bobby dancing around that topic?) and IF it comes about that we'll have to purchase anew, how 'bout doing kinda what they're doing with the Pro packs? I'm on PS3, I pay a buck more for the table, PSN knows my purchase, and when I upgrade to the PS4 that new version of the table will be waiting for me?

There's always talk of how software and hardware sales slow once a new system is announced, due to people not wanting to be stuck with obsolete. My solution, like what the movie software people are obviously aware of, allows us to feel good about purchasing now, while on the other side of the coin, the studios get to secure sales for a system people may not even buy for a few years.

 

[Metalzoic]

My question is: Why should they?

Any tables/games you already purchased, you bought to play them on the current hardware. As far as I know they never promised any future compatibility, so I'm not sure why anyone would feel entitled to it.
If they offered something like that or even a discount then that would be very cool of them, but they absolutely don't owe it to anyone.

 

[PiN WiZ]

My question is: Why should they?

Any tables/games you already purchased, you bought to play them on the current hardware. As far as I know they never promised any future compatibility, so I'm not sure why anyone would feel entitled to it.
If they offered something like that or even a discount then that would be very cool of them, but they absolutely don't owe it to anyone.

My point exactly...new hardware means more development costs for FarSight. Can someone please name one game they purchased on the PS2 or original Xbox that carried over to the PS3 or Xbox 360?

 

[spoonman]

My question is: Why should they?

Any tables/games you already purchased, you bought to play them on the current hardware. As far as I know they never promised any future compatibility, so I'm not sure why anyone would feel entitled to it.
If they offered something like that or even a discount then that would be very cool of them, but they absolutely don't owe it to anyone.

There are reasons why they should.

As shutyertrap stated, public relations.
It would make them look like developer of the year among it's customers. Many of us have spent hundreds of dollars on DLC.

There are many ways this can be looked at.

I personally see table DLC much like I see Rock Band/Guitar Hero DLC, or SingStar DLC.
With Singstar, Sony designed it so you can insert a PS2 disc into your PS3 and import the songs to the PS3 version.
This makes the customer feel better about DLC purchases.

Also, yes, we can continue to play these on the PS3, but how long will Farsight continue to release DLC tables for the PS3 version after the PS4 hits in December. A few months? Maybe a year. Then what.. We will have to switch back and fourth between consoles to play tables? With they continue to allow us to compete on the PS3 version or will they shut down the servers like other companies do?

As someone who has bought WPHOF on the PS2, PS3, Xbox, Wii, PSP, then many of the same tables on TPA I'd be a bit hesitant to do the same a 3rd time without at least a discount or something.

This is just my opinion. Sure some people will agree with me, while others will just buy everything over and over again without question.

 

[spoonman]

My point exactly...new hardware means more development costs for FarSight. Can someone please name one game they purchased on the PS2 or original Xbox that carried over to the PS3 or Xbox 360?

That's not really a fair argument though since these consoles have set a new precedent for how we purchase and use DLC.

That being said, Singstar PS2 disc content can be imported to the PS3 version.

I'm sure there will be others as well. It would really surprise me if Zen doesn't let owners of the current tables bring them over to their PS4 version of Zen Pinball (3?)

Also, the PS3 does play just about every PlayStation 1 disc, and original models played all PS2 discs as well.
Sure it's a little different than DLC, but not so much when you really think about it. Weather downloaded or on a plastic disc. It's still a game that we purchased for an older system with no system in place for "future proofing" in which we were allowed to move to the new console.

And finally, to address the part about new hardware meaning more dev costs for Farsight, do you not think they plan on supporting the PS4?
They are releasing for just about every platform known to man.
Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if they announced a port for the Nokia N-Gage.

Of course they are going to release TPA on the PS4. They probably already own an Orbis devkit.
All they would have to do is move the current tables over to the new engine much like Zen has done with ZP1 tables to the Pinball FX2 engine.

 

[Nik Barbour]

Which is exactly what makes me so happy with my Nexus 7.
Plays as fluidly and smoothly as the current xbox version.
Has many view and control advantages over console (if you're prepared to root - still great if not).
Is bleeding edge up to date dlc wise - and the platform will evolve as opposed to die and be replaced, without replacement purchase of dlc needed for each new format. (PiNWiZ - how many formats you lined up for now? Android (phone), Xbox, PS3, WiiU, PC - $$$)

Consoles are so retro! - buy a Tablet

 

[shutyertrap]

This is a different situation though, different times. I honestly have the same question for Rock Band, though since they're not putting out retail games anymore it does kind of make the point moot. The PS2 did not have an online store and DLC.

Maybe if I explain the logic in my head, I can build a case for the 'why they should'. Ignore PS3 for a sec, focus on the 360. There hasn't been any DLC for them in a good long while. FarSight has said this is obviously revenue that has been lost to them, but they'd like to see it come back. Hypothetically, let's say it'd be available once again right after E3 when Microsoft has announced the 720. As it stands now, to buy all the DLC available, we're talking about dropping $40+ (I think). But say you had every intention of buying the 720 and you know the tables won't carry over from 360 purchases. If it were me, I'd probably hold off on double dipping since the next gen tables will be so much better. That's just the psychology of commerce at work. Were FarSight to offer me the next gen version in addition to my current gen purchase, for only a little more, they'd actually wind up profiting more from a larger percentage of purchasers.

Remember, not everyone buys these tables for every platform they own. Also, buying 2 tables once a month for 5 bucks is much easier to justify than dropping $60 in one lump sum for the works. I know this personally as I never bothered keeping up with the Zen tables and now if I want them all it's gonna cost. Yes, I could spread it out over time, but then it's like I'm making payments on a game so I can reach the end.

Am I making a lick of sense here?

As for the why, it's culturally what we expect now. We expect our purchases to follow us to different formats. Used to be, you'd buy a DVD with a digital copy, but it'd be limited to one device, or the code would expire. People hated that. And each studio had there own way of doing it. Now that cloud saving has become a normal thing, the studios shifted to UltraViolet. Now you can watch your digital copy on any device of your choosing. And it doesn't matter what studio the movie is from. This has proven much more popular with the public.

I mean, iTunes was barely a thing during the PS2's reign, and look how much that has changed the way we consume our entertainment.

I don't expect FarSight to just eat development costs. I do think there is a way though to earn from what otherwise might be lost. I prefer playing TPA on a big screen tv, through my PS3. Finding out that support for the consoles is going to be fairly anemic while mobile and probably PC will get constant improvements makes me not want to continue with buying for the PS3. Were I to be assured that my purchases would "carry over" to the next gen when I get there, I'd feel much better about making the choice to continue buying for the PS3, and I'd do so willingly paying that little extra surcharge.

So no, FarSight never promised future compatibility. No, they do not owe us anything. I am well aware that my purchases are for my current hardware. The double dips I have payed for, like God of War, they were offered at a discounted price and included multiple games. That was after the old generation though, long after everyone had moved on. Pinball Arcade is a current ongoing property, and this is a way to offer a discount looking forward.

Do I make any valid points?

 

[PiN WiZ]

If you guys are talking about importing TPA tables to the PS4 and new Xbox as is, then yes, I think we should be able to do this free of charge. However, if you're expecting FarSight to allow us to download graphically updated and optimized tables (which is what I want to play on my shiny new system) for free, then I will have to once again disagree. I will gladly pay FarSight for upgrading our current tables as I don't expect them to enhance the experience of these tables for nothing. I for one would actually like to see FarSight continue to release new tables for years to come and giving away enhanced tables for free will cut their development short.

 

[Edan-Grossman]

Given that the PS4 is basically gaming pc. It shouldn't take much effort on Farsight"s end to release a PS4 version of TPA and the tables that go along with it, because they already have a PC version that is working. All they would have to do for the PS4 is to optimize the graphics settings from the PC version and release it on the PS4.

To take advantage of newer hardware, they could add more graphics options for the pc version that can be toggled on/off just like they will do with the HDR lighting. I wouldn't mind paying a small fee to unlock some new graphics or physics upgrades, I'm just not sure that I would re-purchase the game and all of the tables for the full price I originally paid, just for these upgrades.

 

[DarkAkatosh]

If you guys are talking about importing TPA tables to the PS4 and new Xbox as is, then yes, I think we should be able to do this free of charge. However, if you're expecting FarSight to allow us to download graphically updated and optimized tables (which is what I want to play on my shiny new system) for free, then I will have to once again disagree. I will gladly pay FarSight for upgrading our current tables as I don't expect them to enhance the experience of these tables for nothing. I for one would actually like to see FarSight continue to release new tables for years to come and giving away enhanced tables for free will cut their development short.

you're in the minority there. FS is going to end up losing sales to mobiles/PC if they can't allow users to somehow play their tables on the new systems, be it thru importing, streaming, or what have you. If I'm in the market for a shiny new version of TPA, I say screw the consoles and go to PC. That way I know that when the next generations of hardware come along, my money won't be flushed down the toilet and into the bowels of the sewers as what is the most likely scenario for PS3 > PS4 > PS5 and 360 > 720 > whatever.

 

[Crush3d_Turtle]

you're in the minority there. FS is going to end up losing sales to mobiles/PC if they can't allow users to somehow play their tables on the new systems, be it thru importing, streaming, or what have you. If I'm in the market for a shiny new version of TPA, I say screw the consoles and go to PC. That way I know that when the next generations of hardware come along, my money won't be flushed down the toilet and into the bowels of the sewers as what is the most likely scenario for PS3 > PS4 > PS5 and 360 > 720 > whatever.

That is also the mindset I am taking with TPA, especially after hearing about how Sony doesn't allow for updates on DLC. I do feel a bit ripped off considering what we got on the Vita and some of the problems people are having with flipper delay on the PS3, but I take it as a learning experience and moving on the PC version if it does get released on Steam.

 

[brakel]

If you guys are talking about importing TPA tables to the PS4 and new Xbox as is, then yes, I think we should be able to do this free of charge.

This will be largely dependent on Sony though and less so on FarSight. PS3 games are not going to be inherently compatible with the PS4 because the PS4's architecture is going to be such a departure from the PS3. It will depend on how Sony provides any kind of backward compatibility and whether Sony intends to charge for this. If it is to stream the games I'm not convinced they'll be able to do it lag free.

 

[grashopper]

If you guys are talking about importing TPA tables to the PS4 and new Xbox as is, then yes, I think we should be able to do this free of charge. However, if you're expecting FarSight to allow us to download graphically updated and optimized tables (which is what I want to play on my shiny new system) for free, then I will have to once again disagree. I will gladly pay FarSight for upgrading our current tables as I don't expect them to enhance the experience of these tables for nothing. I for one would actually like to see FarSight continue to release new tables for years to come and giving away enhanced tables for free will cut their development short.

Wouldn't they just be changing the lighting pretty much? All of the optimizations they are doing are already being offered free on mobile and may even be in the PC version. I can't imagine they are going to do tear downs on each table and improve the art again. That said that would probably mean they could have higher rez assets laying around already that they nerfed to run on current systems. You would think the PC version should be similar enough to port to PS4 so the work might not be all that bad either if that is running at a proper PC quality.

I don't think the quality will leap as much as it would require to pull out wallets again. I do feel they should get something though. Like Rock Band mentioned, how about their "export codes"? We could "export" our tables to a next gen version for the ones you have bought for 10-15 bucks. That would probably stop people from holding back on current releases. They would also bank a extra few bucks from work they probably already have done on PC and mobile versions.
I would say it would be win win. We wouldn't get screwed having to double buy and they would hold console supporters for the months leading into the next gen systems instead of all waiting it out.

 

[PiN WiZ]

I get what everyone is saying, but updating and optimizing the current tables will be more work than most of you think. FarSight will have to work on evolving and optimizing the current physics system to include ball spin, more sophisticated flipper physics and point lighting where lights would be able to cast their own lights and shadows onto the playfield and surrounding objects in real time. Post processing is nice, but it's very primitive compared to what is possible on high end PCs, the PS4 and Xbox 720. Just what I've mentioned would take a considerable amount of work to do, so it's not as easy to update these tables a some might think.

Also, many of you have brought up the PC version being evolved over time and you are correct...but it's not going to be free. When the PC version does finally come out, we will all have to purchase the PC version and all the tables once again (regardless of how many platforms we have already purchased The Pinball Arcade on) since NONE of our purchases on currently supported platforms will transfer over to the PC. It's funny how many are willing to pony up the cash for the PC version, but are reluctant to do the same for the PS4 and Xbox 720.