Williams' Collection Volume 4 guesses

[Citizen]

So in beta, have you noticed any significant change in ability to pull off flipper tricks with the new physics?

 

[Striker]

About the only ones I can see them having troubles with are the two you mentioned in NBA Fastbreak and Rollergames and then Playboy really. If Zen and Stern start collaborating together then you will have a bunch of tables that will probably never see the light of digitized day with Sega/Data East/Stern having a ton of big licensed tables.

Interesting. Why Rollergames? It was only on TV for one season.

 

[shutyertrap]

Because tracking down who actually owns the rights is apparently very difficult. FarSight had it narrowed down to two individuals; one wasn’t interested, the other they never could get ahold of. They even toyed with the idea of releasing it and seeing if anyone came calling. They were planning on Festering out the soda and other sponsor logos. Ultimately it was too risky for a table they themselves weren’t even that fond of.

Now I have no idea how much of that all came down to their licensing abilities, detective work, and desire, but sometimes these little shows get split and passed around so much, no one knows who owns what because no one really cares. Call it bad bookkeeping that isn’t worth the cost of lawyers to figure out. I hope that’s not the case, but that’s the story as we know it.

 

[shutyertrap]

So in beta, have you noticed any significant change in ability to pull off flipper tricks with the new physics?

I’ve never been good at tricks, but the way the ball moves around looks very much like you’d expect to see on an actual table. There’s supposed to be a video coming from Zen soon that will show just how much effort and research Deep put into this. The only adjustment needed was at first the flipper was absorbing too much of the ball energy. Turns out Deep suspected as much but wanted our impressions first. Next day it was tweaked and working great.

 

[shogun00]

Now I have no idea how much of that all came down to their licensing abilities, detective work, and desire, but sometimes these little shows get split and passed around so much, no one knows who owns what because no one really cares. Call it bad bookkeeping that isn’t worth the cost of lawyers to figure out. I hope that’s not the case, but that’s the story as we know it.

It's worse than that, because the Roller Games company itself wasn't responsible for the TV show. The main company was only responsible for traveling live performances and they been around since the 70s.

 

[1adam12]

Just arcade mode

I'll take it. I tried to play again for the first time in a while. I played party zone on Zen and TPA last night.

Watching the ball just sit and die when it made contact with the flipper was one of the reasons it felt like I was playing with a rock. No bounce. No movement. I still think a lot of the bounce in Zen is lacking, too. The ball just doesn't carom off things the way it should.

I'm a little happier than I was before with the Zen table, but I just feel like there's some hurdle it needs to get over to really play well.

-- this is all on mobile, which may be a much different experience.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[trash80]

I'll take it. I tried to play again for the first time in a while. I played party zone on Zen and TPA last night.

Watching the ball just sit and die when it made contact with the flipper was one of the reasons it felt like I was playing with a rock. No bounce. No movement. I still think a lot of the bounce in Zen is lacking, too. The ball just doesn't carom off things the way it should.

I'm a little happier than I was before with the Zen table, but I just feel like there's some hurdle it needs to get over to really play well.

-- this is all on mobile, which may be a much different experience.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Mobile is completely different. And in the mobile app the new physics are called "Pro" which you must unlock and/or purchase outright. Though it sounds like access to the new and improved mobile physic is something that Zen is going to look into making easier to at least try out and experience in the mobile platforms.

I'm not sure that the new flipper physics are coming to mobile.

 

[shutyertrap]

Hey, just got word from Mel and need to update a bit of info from the podcast.

Regarding new flipper physics, they are only going to be included for the Volume 4 tables at this point.

I think what Zen wants to do is use this pack to get all your feedback regarding these new physics. It's easier to parse through all the comments when it's purely related to only 3 tables, make changes, and then apply that to all the other tables. Or at least that's my guess. Personally I don't think anything needs to be changed from what I've played in beta. So yes, eventually all the tables will get this update and I'm hoping it will be by Volume 5, but we'll see.

 

[trash80]

Hey, just got word from Mel and need to update a bit of info from the podcast.

Regarding new flipper physics, they are only going to be included for the Volume 4 tables at this point.

I think what Zen wants to do is use this pack to get all your feedback regarding these new physics. It's easier to parse through all the comments when it's purely related to only 3 tables, make changes, and then apply that to all the other tables. Or at least that's my guess. Personally I don't think anything needs to be changed from what I've played in beta. So yes, eventually all the tables will get this update and I'm hoping it will be by Volume 5, but we'll see.

I understand this may be a couple months before it is applied to the previous WMS tables.

However, if the game play is different enough with the new flipper code, it is just going to further frustrate the player base much like how many of us feel about the Zen original tables not having the updated WMS style physics. The one aspect that Zen had nailed (Before WMS) was a unified experience across all the tables, now not so much, and it makes me wonder if we are going to see incremental (but substantial feeling) differences periodically as new tables (and IP) come out without making any adjustments to previously released tables.

 

[shutyertrap]

I understand this may be a couple months before it is applied to the previous WMS tables.

However, if the game play is different enough with the new flipper code, it is just going to further frustrate the player base much like how many of us feel about the Zen original tables not having the updated WMS style physics. The one aspect that Zen had nailed (Before WMS) was a unified experience across all the tables, now not so much, and it makes me wonder if we are going to see incremental (but substantial feeling) differences periodically as new tables (and IP) come out without making any adjustments to previously released tables.

I warned Akos, the community manager, of this very thing when first alerted to the flipper physics coming. Specifically that as soon as people experience them, it will only create a compare and contrast with those that haven't been adjusted yet. This happened with TPA, caused all sorts of problems, from people thinking physics were changed when they weren't to people not liking the new in comparison. I stressed that it is important to unify everything as quickly as possible to avoid this headache. Because yeah, I know this forum!

 

[Lroy]

Are we going to be entering “leaderboards need resetting” territory if they apply the new physics to existing tables?


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[shutyertrap]

Questionable. I'm a fan of resetting leaderboards at the drop of a hat, but I don't really think this is as significant as when TPA had tables re-tuned, removing certain railroads and such. This new flipper fix technically should allow you to achieve better scores as now you can manipulate the ball better.

 

[trash80]

Are we going to be entering “leaderboards need resetting” territory if they apply the new physics to existing tables?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. New physics being retrofitted to original Zen tables has always been considered as an ADDITION to, not a REPLACEMENT of. But if you are concerned about leader boards, they haven't reset them after serious bug fixes and other updates. And if you were to factor in that not everyone uses the same hardware setup (Steam, some other platforms), the idea of "accurate" global leader boards is meaningless.

Now... if you watched the Mel interview from yesterday, global leader boards populated from Zen cabinet play sounds like an incredible possibility for pinball league play and other tournament type settings where we can be assured that all scores are from identically calibrated machines located all over the globe.

 

[shogun00]

Are we going to be entering “leaderboards need resetting” territory if they apply the new physics to existing tables?

I doubt they will ever reset them again. The last time they did a reset (Plants vs Zombies table), they got a lot of backlash including a high number of death threats.

 

[Lroy]

Thanks for the info fellas. I’m not good enough to care about my own leaderboard placing but just curious as I know some folks will call for them to be reset if a table is modified in terms of game-play.


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[warh0g]

You have probably seen it, but they posted a demonstration video of new flipper physics on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10161832035420788&id=427673505787&sfnsn=mo

 

[Scared Stiff]

You have probably seen it, but they posted a demonstration video of new flipper physics on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10161832035420788&id=427673505787&sfnsn=mo

It looked good. I love their attention to detail! Can’t wait for this pack!

 

[Pete]

dead bounces are in it now! it's gonna be sweet!!!

 

[shutyertrap]

Uh, they’ve been doable all along. Now the just bounce more true to life.

 

[Pete]

cool, i guess i just never trusted it enough to try em' ...but hey now they look super legit. i'm excited!!! on another note was just looking at the current ps4 sales and it doesnt effect me since i already have them but if anyone needed to catch up on vol 1-3 they are 33% off so snag them up now