Williams' Collection Volume 5 guesses

[Moosebox]

If we are getting alphanumerics, just give me F14 Tomcat, then give MM the newest physics and I will be a happy man.

Yes, the all the Williams tables need the new physics as soon as possible, I don't see why it's taking so long. I played an hour of Creature the other night and then jumped into Attack from Mars, the difference in physics is night and day, such a great improvement that I almost don't even want to play the older Williams packs now.

From the last twitch stream it doesn't even sound like they started on implementing the new physics to the old tables. Zen is really slow at fixing issues and updating old tables, they seem to just want to push forward with more releases, which is fine, but they really need to support their old tables. I'm happy they were able to sort out the Monster Bash performance issues so quickly though.

 

[skyway73]

...I played an hour of Creature the other night and then jumped into Attack from Mars, the difference in physics is night and day, such a great improvement that I almost don't even want to play the older Williams packs now.

Yep, that's how I feel. Struggling to enjoy the older packs now, desperate for them to be updated!

 

[Scared Stiff]

Yep, that's how I feel. Struggling to enjoy the older packs now, desperate for them to be updated!

I still like the older ones, though I must say between the physics and lighting, Creature has quickly become my favorite table in Williams collection. Which considering that Creature is a game that I never liked in the arcade, and never liked in TPA, that’s really saying something! Never would have thought that possible. But AfM and MM will always be right up there too for me. Both arcade and digital.

Although, if they ever release long wanted games for me which were never commercially digitized before like Flash, Vector, or Hotdoggin my favorites could change! I want to see those made so bad!

 

[pinfan7]

Maybe it is because I'm Afrikaans speaking and English is my second language but nobody seems to understand my basic point ;-). Before Universal Monsters the game was too difficult (on Classic Arcade that I mostly play), but not because of the ball speed being too fast, after Universal Monsters the game is too easy compared to real life because the ball speed has been slowed down too much and the gameplay is too predicatable (relatively speaking off course). Looking at MB, in real life going for Frankenstein is taking your life in your own hands and you can't even think about doing it from the right, in the game it is a relatively non issue. Another example is dealing with the ball being ejected from the scoop, in real life it is a struggle to bring the ball under control, while in the game you can safely rinse and repeat the same trick. Here is another example showing how much of a struggle it is to bring the ball under control in the real game... none such issues in the game. In Creature from the Black Lagoon you hit the snack bar on demand from the right flipper while in the real table it is too risky. So yes, I want it as realistic as possible compared to the real deal and at the moment they have made it too predictable and controllable relative to the real thing. I really enjoyed the challenge for Ruler of the Universe on Classic Arcade but that is not realistic and is way too hard - only 6 players have managed to beat it on Classic Arcade and none on tournament.

I fully agree that they need to lock it down and update the previous tables (really looking forward to MM and AfM), but while they have not done so yet, there is an opportunity to make the points like I did above so that Zen / Deep can either agree or disagree and tweak the physics some more.

Cloda has a point here and I agree, also he backs it up with videos. The unpredictability is what makes Pinball special, which is one of the main variables as ball speed is also, that creates the feeling of tension in the air (of losing the ball) and thrill (of struggling to control the table) as it was obvious in Deadflip's Real vs. Zen's arcade table, where he was in tension playing the real table but relaxed playing Zen's version. If you take those away then you are not playing pinball -or at least you don't play the real tables' pinball and you could stick to Zen fantasy physics-, and I agree that Deep has to look into it a bit more.
Problem is I don't have the Universal pack so I can't judge how it plays in Tournament Setup, as I believe this is the mode where the setting that controls the unpredictability inside the ROM is being used.

Regarding the AfM gameplay (and MM, FT, fall also in that category), although I also prefer the flipper physics of Vol.4 and on and I want them in those tables as well, going back to it is a very refreshing "feeling alive " experience like a soft breeze, due to the speed of the ball and the unpredictability, a thing that I'm very missing from Vol.3 and on. It just feels like the real beast as it was designed to be against the "been there-done that" feel of every new table after Vol.2. If I had to make a compromise though to please everyone, I'd choose ToM & WH2O 's physics + speed, WH2O is incredibly well done, there's no need for further nerfs.

When talking about physics we should take in consideration the ball speed on the one hand, which is relevant to slope and friction, and which is easier to "physically model" and on the other hand the "material constants" of every item in the table with which the ball impacts, which are responsible for the momentum, angular momentum and impact (elastic/semi-elastic) in the laws of physics. It's the latter that should be tweaked and being more physically correct and not the ball speed. Nerfing the ball speed is just an easy way "hiding" the lack of implementing real physics that obey to the physic laws, as it was the case with TPA and nobody wants that, it failed.

 

[Cloda]

Cloda has a point here and I agree, also he backs it up with videos. The unpredictability is what makes Pinball special, which is one of the main variables as ball speed is also, that creates the feeling of tension in the air (of losing the ball) and thrill (of struggling to control the table) as it was obvious in Deadflip's Real vs. Zen's arcade table, where he was in tension playing the real table but relaxed playing Zen's version. If you take those away then you are not playing pinball -or at least you don't play the real tables' pinball and you could stick to Zen fantasy physics-, and I agree that Deep has to look into it a bit more.
Problem is I don't have the Universal pack so I can't judge how it plays in Tournament Setup, as I believe this is the mode where the setting that controls the unpredictability inside the ROM is being used.

Regarding the AfM gameplay (and MM, FT, fall also in that category), although I also prefer the flipper physics of Vol.4 and on and I want them in those tables as well, going back to it is a very refreshing "feeling alive " experience like a soft breeze, due to the speed of the ball and the unpredictability, a thing that I'm very missing from Vol.3 and on. It just feels like the real beast as it was designed to be against the "been there-done that" feel of every new table after Vol.2. If I had to make a compromise though to please everyone, I'd choose ToM & Whitewater's physics + speed, Whitewater is incredibly well done, there's no need for further nerfs.

When talking about physics we should take in consideration the ball speed on the one hand, which is relevant to slope and friction, and which is easier to "physically model" and on the other hand the "material constants" of every item in the table with which the ball impacts, which are responsible for the momentum, angular momentum and impact (elastic/semi-elastic) in the laws of physics. It's the latter that should be tweaked and being more physically correct and not the ball speed. Nerfing the ball speed is just an easy way "hiding" the lack of implementing real physics that obey to the physic laws, as it was the case with TPA and nobody wants that, it failed.

I've been playing FX2 since 2010 (and FX1 before that) and thoroughly enjoyed it for quite a couple of years until it became too easy and ball time became too long (my longest game was 15 hours on Paranormal ). The Williams tables on Classic Arcade / Tournament will never play that easy but my game time on e.g. Creature (Classic Arcade) is creeping up towards an hour again and in the FX2 days I would have pushed on until I exhausted the table, but I don't have the desire anymore. That is basically where my concern comes in with the easier physics but I accept I'm in the minority. I thought Zen had the perfect setup with Zen physics for the casual crowd and Classic Arcade / Tournament for the players wanting a recreated experience; that is also why I'm so vocal about Classic Arcade / Tournament playing easier now and why I'm surprised that there are only a few players that are concerned about it. But yes, I made my peace now and am celebrating Zen and Deep's amazing work.

 

[lettuce]

I would gladly push or sacrifice Jack bot and Who Dunnit for faster access to Taxi, Diner, Funhouse and so many others or any licensed games (or Stern??!?) faster.

You missed Mousin Around

 

[pinfan7]

I would have pushed on until I exhausted the table, but I don't have the desire anymore. That is basically where my concern comes in with the easier physics but I accept I'm in the minority. I thought Zen had the perfect setup with Zen physics for the casual crowd and Classic Arcade / Tournament for the players wanting a recreated experience; that is also why I'm so vocal about Classic Arcade / Tournament playing easier now and why I'm surprised that there are only a few players that are concerned about it. But yes, I made my peace now

Sounds to me like a resign and defeat rather than (forced) peace and I don't like seeing you who has put so much effort in constructive critisicm having to swallow the bitter pill. If we as fans can't talk about our favorite game and stand critical about some aspects of it who will? Zen as you 've said has 2 target groups, one of them was not really covered with TPA, as it was pseudo-sim, and the plan is to support both of them, so simulation needs proper love and attention too, and I'm sure [MENTION=7660]deep[/MENTION] listens. Otherwise FX3 could end up like TPA, Williams giving the license to someone who could REALLY simulate the real physics, and we sim fans having to buy the tables again and Zen losing a good portion of their pinball business. That makes the role of us as fans important, as well as Zen's role about taking constructive criticism seriously, no matter if it belongs to a minority.

 

[Gorgar]

I must say that I was really taken aback by the easiness of classic arcade mode in the universal pack. These pinball machines are certainly no where near that easy in real life. Classic tournament mode is okay, but it is probably how classic arcade should be tuned. The easy mode should be restricted to the zen physics mode, no need to dumb down classic arcade. I hope when they update the physics on the older tables that they don’t make classic arcade this easy. And if they do this, they better not erase the leaderboards. They should only be erased if it’s made harder.

 

[Citizen]

I'm also in the group who feels that classic arcade and classic tournament don't need/never needed to be slowed down, made more predictable, or otherwise made easier. All of the other physics improvements so far (such as flipper tricks) are great, but overall the level of challenge has been less satisfying with the Monsters pack.

I understand accessibility and all, but why have 3 sets of physics but then tune all 3 of them to the tastes of 1 group? Let the people who want easy pinball have their physics, let us have ours. I kinda thought that was the point in the first place.

 

[mystman12]

I haven't played the Universal pack, but I gotta say I'm very concerned with it becoming too easy as well from what I'm hearing. I definitely agree that the ball speed was a bit too fast in the previous packs, with some machines being particularly bad (Party Zone for example is insanely fast), but slowing the ball down too much as a response is going to create new issues. And I've said this before, obviously I'd love for the physics to be as realistic as possible, but if I had to decide between them being a bit too fast or a bit too slow, I'd go for too fast because at least then I know I'll be consistently challenged. I don't want to end up having marathon games every time I play like with TPA.

 

[yespage]

A comment from the non-god like pinball players, I've had one great game in Monsters Bash. Granted, I might have the feel for the table's timing now.

 

[jaredmorgs]

Release date 10th December as Jared gave us the strong hint at.

And that was purely a guess. I actually had no idea of the release date at that point. Go me!

 

[Scared Stiff]

Pack 5 is out now!

Unfortunately as of this writing the challenges on mobile are not. So unless I pay for it all I can do is look and not touch. I can’t tell much from just looking, but at least on the attract screen, the ball and neon on Circus Voltaire seems to always be green and I don’t see it going on or off in attract mode.

But all three tables look nice. That much I can tell. But I don’t feel compelled to spend real money this time. Not for just 2 star tables. So I guess I will wait and grind it out. At least they are giving a nice 14 days to decide rather than 2 days like they have sometimes!

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Android is available and so are its challenges.

1 part for clearing + 2 cards (tickets), and an optional 1 coin for 1 extra part for the special challenges. Monster Pack tables now added as part of the daily free part.

 

[Lykaion23]

I must say monster seems to be included cause I got one Part for Monster Bash, but I find it very stupid that I only can get the parts from there in daily no parts, so unlimited time to just Upgrade one table

 

[Scared Stiff]

Okay, finally had a chance to play a challenge on each table on mobile iOS version. NGG doesn’t look quite as good as I hoped but that’s not a facorite table anyway and still looks better than TPA’s version. So much for transparent blue ramps not being able to be done on mobile.

Love that on TOTAN I can see the Genie’s white eyes light up really vividly. It looks great.

But the best I have saved for last. CV looks absolutely spectacular. The neon is perfect and looks like neon. Still only have seen green, so I don’t know if other colors are there or not, but wow, the green looks amazing.

 

[shutyertrap]

Okay, finally had a chance to play a challenge on each table on mobile iOS version. NGG doesn’t look quite as good as I hoped but that’s not a facorite table anyway and still looks better than TPA’s version. So much for transparent blue ramps not being able to be done on mobile.

Love that on TOTAN I can see the Genie’s white eyes light up really vividly. It looks great.

But the best I have saved for last. CV looks absolutely spectacular. The neon is perfect and looks like neon. Still only have seen green, so I don’t know if other colors are there or not, but wow, the green looks amazing.

Other colors are there. Use left flipper before launch to select color, select it with right flipper. And by the way, there is an extra part available under the Z coin card of the limited time challenge. Still cannot earn Monster Pack parts in regular daily challenges though.

 

[MadScience2006]

Other colors are there. Use left flipper before launch to select color, select it with right flipper

Excellent tip! Thanks! Is this documented somewhere or was it stumbled upon? Great tip regardless!

 

[shutyertrap]

Excellent tip! Thanks! Is this documented somewhere or was it stumbled upon? Great tip regardless!

Read the DMD before launching ball. Says it right there.

 

[MadScience2006]

If it had been a snake, it would've bit me