Williams: getting my arse kicked

[MBeeching]

I see...My understanding was that Classic Single Player was basically PFX2 mode (with no levelling up), and that the Arcade mode meant the traditional PFX physics, and that it was the Tournament mode that brought the new physics...

I suspect most players would agree it's illogical at the moment, this issue was raised during the initial Williams beta. If Zen add a realistic physics mode to their existing fantasy tables they should take the opportunity to define these choices clearly in the menu.

Single Player Mode
Physics: Standard / Advanced
Wizard Powers: On / Off
Table Setup: Standard / Tournament

There probably a more sensible way to label the above suggestions but Single Player & Single Player Classic is ineffective and needs scrapping. This sort of setup would also allow players to choose Zen's easier physics but disable Wizard Powers, any options unavailable for a particular table can be simply greyed out.

 

[Gorgias32]

On Android, I have unlocked all three new tables for level 1 challenges. This morning the one-ball challenge on Champion Pub came up. I got the 5-star level after a few tries, but now for the 10-star I am basically getting nowhere - highest I have gotten it is to 6 stars in probably 10 attempts.

I can safely say that the right outlane is not as drainy as in TPA, but it is still plenty drainy, and nudging on mobile is really hard to do so once it gets over in that area you are pretty much toast.

 

[The loafer]

I think nowadays "arcade" is often associated with "casual" so there could still be confusion as to what to call their "sim" physics... which is exactly why I would call it "sim" if I was them. IE: Physics "Zen" and physics "sim"

 

[Crazy Newt]

I love pinball, both real and digital tables. I was born in the '60s, so I have been around a while and played quite a few tables in my time. I'm sure that my feelings on the matter are a rarity, by I don't consider real pinball tables to be the superior version of the game that I enjoy the most. I am a digital pinball fan, and while I do appreciate real tables, they are a distant second to the virtual tables when it comes to my enjoyment. Real tables are noisy, they require maintenance, and they do not have a consistent play over time and especially from one machine to the next.

I prefer playing in a comfortable chair with a perfect machine where I can adjust volume levels to allow me to listen to music or follow a sporting event in the background without having to damage my hearing or bother anyone around me. I can pause the game for any number of reasons (at my age that reason is typically for "operation golden flow"), and I can compare my scores to thousands of other players from the comfort of my home in various types of challenges and tournaments that are not practical with real pinball machines.

With all of that said, the problems I have with digital pinball is how easy the tables become and there is no sense of challenge. Pinball FX3 and their Williams tables are a welcomed improvement. I thoroughly enjoy the tournament setups. The games are quick and competitive, and those goals/shots that were easily achieved before are now worthy of excitement and exhilaration when accomplishing them now.

I'm having an absolute blast with these new Williams releases and playing on a nice rig always helps.

i7-8700K cpu
32 GB DDR4-3200 ram
GTX 1080 video card
32" LG G-Sync monitor 2560x1440 @ 144 Hz
Xbox One controller with thumbstick extenders to allow more precise table nudging

Time to play some pinball. I'm going to enjoy the butt-kicking I am about to receive. Bring it on!

 

[shutyertrap]

Real tables are noisy, they require maintenance, and they do not have a consistent play over time and especially from one machine to the next.

Yep, machine maintenance sucks. I have 2 machines, one which has been in pieces for years now, the other has a triggering target problem I can't chase down with my limited knowledge of these things. Even new machines are full of gremlins to eliminate eventually. Nothing beats playing a real machine, but I do love the stress free existence of having a large digital pinball collection!

 

[dave950lam]

Operation Golden Flow !?!

 

[Crazy Newt]

Operation Golden Flow !?!

It was a reference to an old US Navy joke about a random drug screening, where a select number of sailors were required to pee in a cup. We always called it Operation Golden Flow. I sometimes refer to the act of urinating as Operation Golden Flow as one might call it going number one. It is stupid and childish, but those qualities represent me very well.

Edit: Curious to know where the term may have origninated from, I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Golden_Flow

 

[ZREXMike2]

It was a reference to an old US Navy joke about a random drug screening, where a select number of sailors were required to pee in a cup. We always called it Operation Golden Flow. I sometimes refer to the act of urinating as Operation Golden Flow as one might call it going number one. It is stupid and childish, but those qualities represent me very well.

Edit: Curious to know where the term may have origninated from, I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Golden_Flow

yep, a guy made a train derail with a tugboat, brought alot of new rules, regs and requirements across the board for all USCG licensed people. pee tests were going on way b4 that tho, i think.

 

[gameaddict4life]

Everybody here says that Farsight's tables are too easy but for me they aren't. I've beaten a few sure, Scared Stiff, Big Shot, etc. but many others I haven't. I've gotten close on Medieval Madness and Attack From Mars but no cigar. Now I'm playing the Vol 3 tables on FX3 on the old Zen physics and they are as hard if not harder. I can only get through two boxers on Champion Pub for instance. What a nasty right outlane. I've gotten a few magic tokens on Safe Cracker but haven't put up a great score and I've done ok on Theater of Magic but haven't completed all the tricks yet. This is on the "easy" Zen physics. The ball at times seems destined to drain. I play a control style not flow so maybe I'm trying to force things too much. I don't get it. Maybe it's easier if you've played a lot of real life pinball. I've only played one real machine, South Park, so maybe that's it.

 

[shutyertrap]

Everybody here says that Farsight's tables are too easy but for me they aren't. I play a control style not flow so maybe I'm trying to force things too much. I don't get it. Maybe it's easier if you've played a lot of real life pinball. I've only played one real machine, South Park, so maybe that's it.

I'm gonna recommend a couple of courses of action for you to try, see if we can't nudge you in the right direction.

First, pick a table to concentrate on. For the purposes of this post, let's say Fish Tales. You are going to play Fish Tales for a week in Classic Single Player using only Arcade physics. This does two things; it allows you to really get used to the timing of shots on one table, thus creating solid muscle memory, and by playing with Arcade it'll build up your reaction time and ball awareness as well as get a feel for how the ball should really move around the table as opposed to how it does with TPA or Zen physics.

It's important to understand that during this week, you are not trying for high scores or beating wizard modes. You are simply learning the physics and shots. With Fish Tales, first things first is figuring out how to control the ball and getting it cradled on your flippers. Dead flips are going to become your new best friend. Once you have that, start figuring out how to consistently hit the right orbit. When you can nail it on cue 70% of the time, make the adjustment of flipping slightly earlier in order to hit the ball lock. Once that becomes second nature, start practicing the left orbit.

To be clear, when I say practice a shot I truly mean that. If you find the ball on your right flipper, figure you how best to get it over to the left flipper so you can go back to attempting that shot or vice versa. This is how you'll get used to the physics and be able to control better.

Allow yourself to play a proper game now and then to break up the monotony, but mostly suffer with lots of drained balls and failed shots and keep at it.

After a week of this, go play a match in basic Single Player. You should have superb control now over the ball, the table is much more forgiving on shots so you'll be able to progress much easier, and the whole things will feel slower to you.

Essentially this is using the old theory in sports that if you truly want to get better, you need to compete against players that are much better than you. In this instance, it's playing with physics that are much more demanding.

 

[Cloda]

Everybody here says that Farsight's tables are too easy but for me they aren't. I've beaten a few sure, Scared Stiff, Big Shot, etc. but many others I haven't. I've gotten close on Medieval Madness and Attack From Mars but no cigar. Now I'm playing the Vol 3 tables on FX3 on the old Zen physics and they are as hard if not harder. I can only get through two boxers on Champion's Pub for instance. What a nasty right outlane. I've gotten a few magic tokens on Safe Cracker but haven't put up a great score and I've done ok on Theater of Magic but haven't completed all the tricks yet. This is on the "easy" Zen physics. The ball at times seems destined to drain. I play a control style not flow so maybe I'm trying to force things too much. I don't get it. Maybe it's easier if you've played a lot of real life pinball. I've only played one real machine, South Park, so maybe that's it.

I come from a different background; I have no real pinball experience, got pretty good at Pinball FX2 and never played Pinball Arcade due to the weird floaty physics. When Williams Pinball came out (I'm on Zen Pinball 2, Mac) I really struggled to get anything right and it felt impossible. I'm a systematic kind of person so I started plugging away at it, only playing Classic Arcade physics, and I am now enjoying my pin-balling more than ever because these tough, short games fit my lifestyle. I also play control style and feel it is worth it in the end. Here, if interested, are some thoughts and tips from me on how to approach skilling up going from Zen physics to classic arcade physics.

 

[dmil666]

I'm gonna recommend a couple of courses of action for you to try, see if we can't nudge you in the right direction.
...
and so on...

Excellent advice. I try to practice like this, it can be hard to stick with (It can get frustrating) but it really seems to help. I need to do it more often, but my butt gets sore from being kicked so much. I don't know if I could hack it for a week straight on one table.

 

[gameaddict4life]

Thanks for the advice shutyertrap. Now I just bought Vol 2 on sale so picking just one table to stick to for a week is going to be hard. I will try to just play on Arcade physics for a while. It makes sense that doing this will make Zen mode a piece of cake, like playing in slow motion. I did start out on Arcade but for some reason the friend scores I had to beat were only on regular single player so I kept playing on that. I did notice that the ball was a lot less bouncy on Zen physics as opposed to arcade. Easier to catch the ball as the approach it took to the flippers was more predictable. What really gets me in Zen is the reversed nudging compared to Farsight and the fact that the nudge responds more realistically, aka you can't save a center drain at the last second or perhaps at all. I always felt that Zen doesn't allow you to nudge enough though. Way too many tilts for my liking. I understand multiple nudges on the same ball but I think it's given me a tilt with just one nudge on a new ball. Seems a bit much to me.

 

[gameaddict4life]

Don't know if this is the right place to put it but I was wondering if that new commercial machine that Zen has been working on will feature the censored console versions of the tables or the uncensored PC versions? Since they are or going to be in public places I wonder if Zen will use the "family" versions? I don't know if the mobile versions are also censored so if there is connectivity it might make sense that the tables would be the same version.

Also good work on the podcast. I've been listening since the Wild West days when you had multiple co-hosts on. One thing I think the show is missing is more console talk. I know you guys are on PC and Jared used to be on mobile but I wonder how FX3 is doing on the consoles. Has it sold more on the consoles than the PC/Mobile versions? Has there been any talk at Zen about allowing cross play support on the PS4 version? Plans for the PS5/next console version? Will there ever be a Pinball After Dark app on the consoles that might let us import our purchased Williams tables over to it in their uncensored format?

 

[shutyertrap]

Don't know if this is the right place to put it but I was wondering if that new commercial machine that Zen has been working on will feature the censored console versions of the tables or the uncensored PC versions? Since they are or going to be in public places I wonder if Zen will use the "family" versions? I don't know if the mobile versions are also censored so if there is connectivity it might make sense that the tables would be the same version.

Also good work on the podcast. I've been listening since the Wild West days when you had multiple co-hosts on. One thing I think the show is missing is more console talk. I know you guys are on PC and Jared used to be on mobile but I wonder how FX3 is doing on the consoles. Has it sold more on the consoles than the PC/Mobile versions? Has there been any talk at Zen about allowing cross play support on the PS4 version? Plans for the PS5/next console version? Will there ever be a Pinball After Dark app on the consoles that might let us import our purchased Williams tables over to it in their uncensored format?

Jared doesn't have a console at all (though he keeps threatening to get a Switch), while I have both the Switch and PS4. The problem for me is two-fold; I don't buy packs for either console and those tables I do have suffer a slight flipper lag on my TV. Trust me, I turn off all the post processing on my TV, so that's not the issue! Strangely enough, when I play in 3D on Zen, no flipper lag.

As for how the game is doing on consoles, Zen is very much like FarSight in that respect; they don't release sales numbers. I did at one time get someone from FarSight to admit that the PS4 was their 2nd best sales platform (behind only mobile I think), and I'd bet for Zen it might be the same, if not number one. Makes sense as though most people own a home computer of some sort, those that have a rig to handle gaming is significantly fewer. Meanwhile anyone with a console (millions and millions of people) is guaranteed a good gaming experience. When you say 'cross play support', do you mean having scores or interactions with Xbox and Switch? That's entirely up to Sony I believe as Zen has put no such restrictions in place. Next gen console will probably go the same route that the transition from PS3 to PS4 went, in that your purchases will carry over. Mel even mentioned that in his interview, how Zen didn't charge for that. But no, there's been no word yet. Finally, and I couldn't believe I was hearing the words considering how much an inside joke it's become for all of us on the forum, he did mention "pinball after dark" but I think they'd sooner go through the effort of being re-rated than creating a whole new platform.

 

[gameaddict4life]

Strange issue with the flipper lag on your tv. Is it 4K? That might have something to do with it. Who knows. Yep, that's what I meant by cross play support. I know other games have gotten it but I suppose there isn't much of an uproar being that it's the "niche" market of digital pinball. I wondered if Zen could petition Sony to allow it though. Also any info on what version of the tables those commercial machines are running?

 

[shutyertrap]

Yes, it’d a 4K 65” LG 3D tv.

 

[gameaddict4life]

Strange issue with the flipper lag on your tv. Is it 4K? That might have something to do with it. Who knows. Yep, that's what I meant by cross play support. I know other games have gotten it but I suppose there isn't much of an uproar being that it's the "niche" market of digital pinball. I wondered if Zen could petition Sony to allow it though. Also any info on what version of the tables those commercial machines are running?

After doing some tournaments it turns out that there is cross play in the PS4 version. Just hosted a one day tournament on The Party Zone. People on platforms other than PS4 have a silhouette for their avatar. Not sure what other platforms are supported but there's cross play.

 

[gameaddict4life]

In fact I remember competing in a tournament with shutyertrap on Zeus many moons ago.

 

[shutyertrap]

In fact I remember competing in a tournament with shutyertrap on Zeus many moons ago.

PS4 can play with Steam, but not Xbox or Switch (if I understand correctly)