Its perhaps what i need to do, just do a little every day and not rush it. I playing like i need to get all table right now at lvl 2 and because im stressing to get that im playing poorly, like i repeate 3 time White Water easy challenge at like 70 millions? , normally i do that very easily. Perhaps doing just a little i wont feel as burn as im feeling atm. I just got 2 table left to rank at lvl 2, and after that im done. I need to take it easy lol.
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Welcome Back to Digital Pinball Fans - please read this first
Williams Pinball App Data Collection
- Thread starter shutyertrap
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Scared Stiff
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- May 18, 2019
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Yay. Now I am happy again. All I wanted was a path forward. Was that so hard?
Look, I get that it’s a new app, but Zen is not a new developer. If they wanted to experiment, they should have done focus groups before release. That’s the part that bothers me about all this the most...feeling like a guinea pig. I don’t like being experimented on. I just want stability.
Great! Now with patience and without stressing, finally manage my way to get both three latest tables to two stars! Im finally happy. Now im just wondering if its still cost Zen coins to promote lvl 3 tables to lvl 4, if i remember when it started, was is like 125-150 coins to upgrade lvl 3 to lvl 4? I was confuse seeing that, cause it was costing as much as buying a 3 table pack on console, so after lots of time, efforts, you only ended up getting to pay same price as console to upgrade them to lvl 4. Is it still the same price to upgrade?
- Mar 14, 2012
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- Thread starter
- #284
It’s 3000 tickets and 50 parts for Level 3, 100 coins and 100 parts for Level 4
It didnt change then. It still cost a bucket of 350 coins, same price as buying a pack on other platforms.
Scared Stiff
New member
- May 18, 2019
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With the latest change, I was able to get the remainder one star tables I had (White Water and Roadshow) to two stars in only a couple of days. So yeah, I am not just happy but VERY happy now. That’s all they had to do. I don’t mind grinding out the rest for the extras. Particularly on these tables as I don’t really care about them as much as i did on earlier tables.
Thank you Zen. I hope you won’t make too many more abrupt changes and hope you will communicate better in the future because it seems a little one way right now as to what exactly is going on.
Thank you Zen. I hope you won’t make too many more abrupt changes and hope you will communicate better in the future because it seems a little one way right now as to what exactly is going on.
Its a good news for sure that we can finally get the tables to a playable level. Only little concern i got at the moment is for the next pack. If the game follow the same pattern, getting randoms parts will be split between 6 tables and not 3 if the current one we have are not maxed. I got around 425 parts to get in order to max them to lvl 4. If as example the pattern Shutyertrap claim by doing daily challenge give us 28 parts per day considering we do all 4 challenges once a day, its about a 3 weeks job to do. Guess we got plenty of time to max them at lvl 4 with the 100 tickets needed for each tables. But i think the last two challenges are harder to do, and repeating challenge 1 and 2 two, three time a day will be a bit faster.
The thing is its a part i dont enjoy much, but for getting them for free is the task we need to do. And im on the side i think the part video should not be just a once a day thing. It should be on the same two hours clock as the tickets. If they want to make use watch adds, why not boost that. And the video in the challenge reward also should give us a part, im just pilling up these flippers and balls skins.
The thing is its a part i dont enjoy much, but for getting them for free is the task we need to do. And im on the side i think the part video should not be just a once a day thing. It should be on the same two hours clock as the tickets. If they want to make use watch adds, why not boost that. And the video in the challenge reward also should give us a part, im just pilling up these flippers and balls skins.
twopossums
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- Apr 14, 2019
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I know nothing but I would think that the plan would be to always section off the new three tables. So when the next pack comes out you’d be given a week or whatever the time frame was to just play those tables and earn parts for them. Then they’d drop into the regular rotation.
This is good for us that have caught up and maxed but I would think any people starting now will have a progressively harder time unlocking older tables. If you started fresh today you’d have 13 tables to work for. Even level 2 would take a bit. And we have at least 2 more packs of 3 coming soon plus a Halloween surprise. They are still going to have to change things. It’s fixed for us but going forward new players are going to find this more and more unplayable.
- Mar 14, 2012
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- Thread starter
- #290
I really hope this is the new model going forward, having the new tables cordoned off for a week. That should allow any player, new or old, to 2 star all 3 in that frame*.
On Twitter I asked if the timed event tab would get more use in the coming weeks. It is a perfect spot for doing short trials while then giving specific concentrated parts rewards. Do a week of Vol 3 tables using the Pro physics, with parts rewards for those. That will let people that have never touched the new physics know what they are missing. Do a mega points challenge where each time you beat the challenge, the score requirement gets harder but the rewards get greater. For example, AFM 1 ball on Basic Easy is currently 700 million, but by the time you get to Premium Hard, it's 8 billion. Similarly you'd start with 1 part given as reward but the reward for Premium Hard would be say 8-10 parts. Do that for a weekend (3 days) and you can't cycle the challenge until you beat it. Encourages people to play furiously in order to earn a huge bonus of parts.
See I don't think Zen should give up their mobile pricing model, but I do think they need to give people opportunities to make leaps in their collecting. If you keep the player engaged, they'll keep coming back to it. I played TPA for 2 or 3 years solid, no other game got my attention. Eventually I got worn out of doing the same play pattern month after month. A Gottlieb table would appear and I'd barely attempt to collect the standard and wizard goals. I'd mess around with the WMS tables, but I stopped obsessing over figuring out every scoring variation I could. The game held my interest, but I was now playing lots of other stuff too. You could see it in the forum, the enthusiasm just sort of wilting as it was the same ol' same ol' every month.
It was no better for FX2, worse actually. Long spurts between releases only for it to be yet another Marvel or Star Wars table. It'd be fun for a week and then I wouldn't touch the game for months.
Then came FX3, and the custom tournaments were like a revelation. The idea of playing against other players, not just leaderboard chasing, using rules that were potentially different each time, that got me reinvigorated. It's the same thing of sorts with the Daily Challenges in the Williams app. It's a reason to play, to gain rewards. If I no longer need rewards, I no longer play daily. We've all done it, being obsessed over some mobile app only to stop playing for whatever reason, and next thing you know it's been a month or two since you touched the app and you wonder why you're even wasting storage space on it.
I obviously would have no way of seeing such data, but I'd argue the player attrition rate of the Williams app as is much less versus if they had it just being a standard one time payment model. On top of that, you have significantly more ACTIVE players in this current model. That's my guess, and I'll see if I can't get Zen to answer that in some way, because I guarantee they've got that data in comparison to their other apps.
* I used 250 of my coins to open up that 3rd challenge. I don't know how possible it would have been to get 2 stars on all 3 tables without having that challenge to play, especially since that alone brought White Water up to 2 stars. Did anyone get there without having opened that challenge? Lemme know.
On Twitter I asked if the timed event tab would get more use in the coming weeks. It is a perfect spot for doing short trials while then giving specific concentrated parts rewards. Do a week of Vol 3 tables using the Pro physics, with parts rewards for those. That will let people that have never touched the new physics know what they are missing. Do a mega points challenge where each time you beat the challenge, the score requirement gets harder but the rewards get greater. For example, AFM 1 ball on Basic Easy is currently 700 million, but by the time you get to Premium Hard, it's 8 billion. Similarly you'd start with 1 part given as reward but the reward for Premium Hard would be say 8-10 parts. Do that for a weekend (3 days) and you can't cycle the challenge until you beat it. Encourages people to play furiously in order to earn a huge bonus of parts.
See I don't think Zen should give up their mobile pricing model, but I do think they need to give people opportunities to make leaps in their collecting. If you keep the player engaged, they'll keep coming back to it. I played TPA for 2 or 3 years solid, no other game got my attention. Eventually I got worn out of doing the same play pattern month after month. A Gottlieb table would appear and I'd barely attempt to collect the standard and wizard goals. I'd mess around with the WMS tables, but I stopped obsessing over figuring out every scoring variation I could. The game held my interest, but I was now playing lots of other stuff too. You could see it in the forum, the enthusiasm just sort of wilting as it was the same ol' same ol' every month.
It was no better for FX2, worse actually. Long spurts between releases only for it to be yet another Marvel or Star Wars table. It'd be fun for a week and then I wouldn't touch the game for months.
Then came FX3, and the custom tournaments were like a revelation. The idea of playing against other players, not just leaderboard chasing, using rules that were potentially different each time, that got me reinvigorated. It's the same thing of sorts with the Daily Challenges in the Williams app. It's a reason to play, to gain rewards. If I no longer need rewards, I no longer play daily. We've all done it, being obsessed over some mobile app only to stop playing for whatever reason, and next thing you know it's been a month or two since you touched the app and you wonder why you're even wasting storage space on it.
I obviously would have no way of seeing such data, but I'd argue the player attrition rate of the Williams app as is much less versus if they had it just being a standard one time payment model. On top of that, you have significantly more ACTIVE players in this current model. That's my guess, and I'll see if I can't get Zen to answer that in some way, because I guarantee they've got that data in comparison to their other apps.
* I used 250 of my coins to open up that 3rd challenge. I don't know how possible it would have been to get 2 stars on all 3 tables without having that challenge to play, especially since that alone brought White Water up to 2 stars. Did anyone get there without having opened that challenge? Lemme know.
Also unlocked in the past that third challenge, cant comment. It would have been longer to do imo, but very possible. My last two tables got unlocked fast enough. The price to pay, 5 tickets to restart the challenge, make it way easier to target a table or challenge you feel confortable with, and get the parts.
Im in for harder challenge, but i think the survival and 5 min challenge are harder to pull off tbh, well, more stressful. The one ball challenge is the one i enjoy the most. I had like a 3 billions 5 minute challenge for AmF, and tank it every time...
Going to agree with you here, Pro Physics and even Visual Extra should get some more attention, way to make people see them. After all, Zen develop these new physics and are popular for making cool looking effects, and the casual player if they dont know what it is will not see them like, at all, but perhaps the casual player dont need to see this, but at the same time, its work they done in order to impress, get people to go back to their game. If in the daily rotation you could have some challenge that would have pro physics and visual extra in them, it will make people see them and perhaps make some who love em after discovering it pay the coins to unlock them.
BTW, just fired it up a bit, new options appear in the purchase section, i see White Water and Road Show available to purchase, 2 stars..., for 250 coins. Its still too freakin expensive, and you only get 2 stars...
Im in for harder challenge, but i think the survival and 5 min challenge are harder to pull off tbh, well, more stressful. The one ball challenge is the one i enjoy the most. I had like a 3 billions 5 minute challenge for AmF, and tank it every time...
Going to agree with you here, Pro Physics and even Visual Extra should get some more attention, way to make people see them. After all, Zen develop these new physics and are popular for making cool looking effects, and the casual player if they dont know what it is will not see them like, at all, but perhaps the casual player dont need to see this, but at the same time, its work they done in order to impress, get people to go back to their game. If in the daily rotation you could have some challenge that would have pro physics and visual extra in them, it will make people see them and perhaps make some who love em after discovering it pay the coins to unlock them.
BTW, just fired it up a bit, new options appear in the purchase section, i see White Water and Road Show available to purchase, 2 stars..., for 250 coins. Its still too freakin expensive, and you only get 2 stars...
twopossums
New member
- Apr 14, 2019
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I’m all for sectioning off new tables in there own section for a week or whatever so new players can just earn points for them to unlock. For us that have all the others already maxed out it won’t matter what they do.
The problem comes for the new player when they download the game and they have 13 tables all sitting in the regular play section. Earning 20 random parts for each will get harder and harder for each release they are starting on. If someone downloads Williams Pinball for the first time a year from now there could be, what 20 or 30 tables if they actually stick to the schedule of a 3 table release every other month Mel mentioned. Something will have to give eventually.
From the beginning I’ve thought the answer is generic table parts. You just earn parts that you can spend on whatever table you want. Then you could even get a table to 3 or 4 star if you wanted rather easily even if there are a ton of other tables not maxed. Focus on the ones you want. I think players would still keep coming back and watching ads and doing everything they already do.
The problem comes for the new player when they download the game and they have 13 tables all sitting in the regular play section. Earning 20 random parts for each will get harder and harder for each release they are starting on. If someone downloads Williams Pinball for the first time a year from now there could be, what 20 or 30 tables if they actually stick to the schedule of a 3 table release every other month Mel mentioned. Something will have to give eventually.
From the beginning I’ve thought the answer is generic table parts. You just earn parts that you can spend on whatever table you want. Then you could even get a table to 3 or 4 star if you wanted rather easily even if there are a ton of other tables not maxed. Focus on the ones you want. I think players would still keep coming back and watching ads and doing everything they already do.
- Mar 14, 2012
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- Thread starter
- #293
If you go back to my very first post that started this thread, you'll see that the worry over what will happen once more and more tables get introduced has been of primary concern. That is why I want Zen to introduce bonus weekends or special events that can boost collecting for a brief time. I've had that in other games and it is a great way to psychologically reward the player, even if they are still a long way from achieving the goal.
The fact of the matter is, you have to play every day, you have to complete and recycle the Basic and Advanced challenges at least twice, and you should complete the Pro challenge each time offered (screw paying 5 coins to recycle that beast!) Using 200 coins to open up the Premium challenge is also an option, but only if you have the skills to actually beat it. The parts totals are the same as Pro, the ticket rewards are large, but it costs 25 tickets per attempt so is not worth it to those that don't have a large stash already on hand.
All that is just to keep from drowning. I was doing that just to build a stash of coins. For someone still trying to max tables, to have any chance of getting ahead before the next volume drops, it's more likely they'll have to play the first to challenges Easy-Hard 4 or 5 times a day. To do that, I'd spend the 5 tix to cycle in tables that are easy to do. Essentially treat the game as farming for parts, not for playing a fun game of pinball. It's a different mindset, the approach cannot be the same as just wanting to play the game. You find the weaknesses in the system and you exploit it for all it's worth.
I find Survival to usually be the easiest, but tables like Getaway, Champion Pub, and Safe Cracker are the exceptions to that for me.
1 ball is brutal, but I enjoy it probably the most if it's on a table I have good ball control on. For that reason, I hate it for Party Zone, Junk Yard, and Hurricane.
5 minute is my least favorite regardless of if I find it easy or hard. When you look up to see 2 1/2 minutes have passed and you aren't even a quarter of the way to the score goal, it becomes real hard to not just exit out and try again! I really feel like I'm gambling with my time and what that is worth to me in this challenge.
I made another suggestion on Twitter for use of the timed event...introduce Pin Golf. Pick 6-9 tables, a score goal for each, what the par is for the entire 'course'. If you come in under par, you get better rewards than if you don't. Special reward from doing the whole thing on one or two balls.
The fact of the matter is, you have to play every day, you have to complete and recycle the Basic and Advanced challenges at least twice, and you should complete the Pro challenge each time offered (screw paying 5 coins to recycle that beast!) Using 200 coins to open up the Premium challenge is also an option, but only if you have the skills to actually beat it. The parts totals are the same as Pro, the ticket rewards are large, but it costs 25 tickets per attempt so is not worth it to those that don't have a large stash already on hand.
All that is just to keep from drowning. I was doing that just to build a stash of coins. For someone still trying to max tables, to have any chance of getting ahead before the next volume drops, it's more likely they'll have to play the first to challenges Easy-Hard 4 or 5 times a day. To do that, I'd spend the 5 tix to cycle in tables that are easy to do. Essentially treat the game as farming for parts, not for playing a fun game of pinball. It's a different mindset, the approach cannot be the same as just wanting to play the game. You find the weaknesses in the system and you exploit it for all it's worth.
I find Survival to usually be the easiest, but tables like Getaway, Champion Pub, and Safe Cracker are the exceptions to that for me.
1 ball is brutal, but I enjoy it probably the most if it's on a table I have good ball control on. For that reason, I hate it for Party Zone, Junk Yard, and Hurricane.
5 minute is my least favorite regardless of if I find it easy or hard. When you look up to see 2 1/2 minutes have passed and you aren't even a quarter of the way to the score goal, it becomes real hard to not just exit out and try again! I really feel like I'm gambling with my time and what that is worth to me in this challenge.
I made another suggestion on Twitter for use of the timed event...introduce Pin Golf. Pick 6-9 tables, a score goal for each, what the par is for the entire 'course'. If you come in under par, you get better rewards than if you don't. Special reward from doing the whole thing on one or two balls.
Gorgias32
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- Jan 14, 2016
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Absolutely agree. I am in a good position now, maxed out on parts for packs 1-3 and all pack 4 tables at 3 stars. I should easily have the pack 4 tables maxed in parts before pack 5 drops.
But new players coming in today will presumably get random parts across all tables; it will take ages to get anything to two stars. I was thinking Zen was going to have some kind of model where they would always have one (or more) timed challenges, each focusing on one pack, which would address this and let people jumpstart specific packs as suggested above.
But generic table parts is a really great idea too. It doesn't really take anything away from Zen in the long run, assuming people want to eventually unlock all the tables, and lets people focus on unlocking and playing the ones they really want.
Scared Stiff
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- May 18, 2019
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I have all three tables at 2 stars with only two challenges going.
- Mar 14, 2012
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- #296
Cool, thanks for letting us know that is possible. Means next time I won’t need to use the 250 coins.
twopossums
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- Apr 14, 2019
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Has anybody else noticed the White Water table parts drops are super scarce or is it just me?
I've got Volumes 1-3 all maxed so I'm just earning new table parts and so far I've got Road Show at 3 star with 45 parts on my way to 4 star and Hurricane 3 star with 51 parts. White Water is still at 2 star with 40 parts. It's like 60 parts behind the other two. It'll even out once I get the other two maxed but I just thought it was weird and wondered if it was just me. I would have thought they would drop fairly evenly.
I've got Volumes 1-3 all maxed so I'm just earning new table parts and so far I've got Road Show at 3 star with 45 parts on my way to 4 star and Hurricane 3 star with 51 parts. White Water is still at 2 star with 40 parts. It's like 60 parts behind the other two. It'll even out once I get the other two maxed but I just thought it was weird and wondered if it was just me. I would have thought they would drop fairly evenly.
- Mar 14, 2012
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- #298
For me it’s Road Show that’s lagging behind. Hurricane and White Water are neck and neck with each other while RS is 23 parts behind.
twopossums
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- Apr 14, 2019
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Lol. Big brother is watching. I just played 4 games after posting and earned White Water on each.
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