Williams Pinball App Data Collection

[wilbers]

I’ve sent my current findings off to Zen for a response. I have an article written on how to get the most from the app, just need to wait for comment in case changes are on the way. I’m having almost as much fun with my data as I am playing the app! Kidding. Sorta.

A bit like with some of the major Steam sales when there has been some sort of metagame - the one with the comics to get the red herring badge was interesting, can end up "playing" that, and less of the actual games until the week after!

 

[Pete]

Sent a message to zen about it taking zen coins away everytime i complete a challenge and they never responded, it been about a week. What is going on is they give you the option to watch a commercial or pay 1 zen coin to get the extra two cards, when i click commercial it give a failed to connect error takes a zen coin and plays a commercial anyway. But now for the past 4 days i just get a failed to connect to server and then it starts up like i never played it before all coins and tickets are reset to 0 and it wont let me do anything.

 

[MBeeching]

What is going on is they give you the option to watch a commercial or pay 1 zen coin to get the extra two cards, when i click commercial it give a failed to connect error takes a zen coin and plays a commercial anyway.

The rewards should appear like the attached:

Card 4 - Watch advert / Card 5 - Use Zen coin. Almost sounds like you're stuck on a weird beta branch

 

[shutyertrap]

Also, any ad that you can interact with will crash the app, at least for me on iOS. Always flip the top 3 first (even though their reward has already been added to your collection) before flipping the video card. If you recognize it as one of those ads, often in the lower left corner there’s a tiny symbol. Push that, a page will pop up for reporting the ad. Select a reason to report, done. Ad goes away, you get reward.

 

[twopossums]

Did they move the play off line option to level 2? I thought that was level 3. I couldn’t play this past weekend when the servers were down.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Can confirm.

 

[Xanija]

Offline play was even level 4

 

[twopossums]

Can confirm.

As sure as God's got sandals.

 

[shutyertrap]

I don't know why, but these last 3 days have been kicking my butt with challenges. The last 2 days I went big time into the negative on tickets, trying to top off on Pro 1 Ball Champion Pub. I'd have a massive 22 million purse waiting for that first fight (since it's the easiest) and then I'd get some b.s. bad bounce and drain. I can't tell you how many times that happened. Day before that was 1 Ball ToM on Pro, and 5 Minute Party Zone on Premium that drained all my tickets. Today, all the challenges are smacking me around! I've got...

Basic 1 Ball Champion Pub
You'd think it'd be a breeze with basic, but it's so easy to lose the ball!

Advanced 1 Ball Junk Yard
I don't care what level it's at, 1 ball on Junk Yard suuuuuuuuuucks.

Pro 5 Minute Medieval Madness
Getting 5 and 10 stars, no problem. Getting 15 stars? I've done it before, but I can't even get close today for some reason.

Premium Survival Black Rose
I'm usually fairly good at hit broadside, wash and repeat. My biggest issue is activating double broadside and then blowing past the goal and not seeing what the target score was. Today, I'm bricking shots left and right.

I sent an email to Mel to pass along to whoever it is at Zen that is in charge of all the mobile nonsense, so it's possible changes are happening because of that? Or the more logical answer is Zen already had something in the works. I'm just keeping an eye out for the hard cap as I'm still earning parts for Safe Cracker and I'm still 45 coins away from upgrading.

 

[shutyertrap]

Okay, now I'm pissed.

After 26 days of consistent data, on day 27 I noticed my totals were a bit unusual. I had sent to Zen some analysis of all the data I'd collected so far, as well as some issues with the game like interactive ads that crashed the app and invisible cards in the Premium Challenge. The card thing seemed to be fixed, and the ads weren't crashing, so fixes seemed to have been made. Today, day 28, I'm getting the same data as yesterday.

This is not good, folks.

Let's start with table parts. You now earn 10 fewer per day. I'd be sorta okay with that if hard caps were in place, but they are not. The lower number mostly affects the Pro and Premium challenge, as gone are the +5 and +6 drops, +3 is the highest now.

Tickets on the other hand have gone way up. Playing all 4 challenges, I was typically earning 600+ per day. These last two days, I earned 890 and 1080. That's all good for people needing to upgrade to level 3.

Coins is where Zen has made a change that is messed up. I earned 3 yesterday and 3 today. I had been averaging 7. The 3 I earned today were for getting 10 stars in the Premium Challenge, nowhere else. If this holds, it will take 34 days to reach 100 coins. That means once the next Volume drops, even I won't be able to upgrade more than one table before the Volume after that arrives. In other words, a true Pay Wall will have been put in place. And with no hard cap on table parts, I'll be spinning my wheels same as everyone else by getting parts I no longer need because I can't afford to do the level 4 upgrade.

I'm gonna continue to monitor this, but if I see this sticking I plan on raising hell. I've already started with a harsh Tweet, then there'll be the podcast. I've said it all along, I get that the freemium model is to entice you into hurrying things along by making purchases, but the one thing I can't stand is forcing you to in order to succeed. Zen needed to actually ease up on some things just so new users could have a fighting chance, and instead they're clamping down and shunning everyone.

 

[MBeeching]

I'll start data logging again. Was earning tonnes of coins on Monday and thought I'd have Pro Physics unlocked by now, but I've only seen 2 or 3 since then. You're right about tickets, I dropped 6000 on a couple of promotions and I've already earned another 1880 out of thin air.


Edit: Part drops have indeed been nerfed, on a general level the reductions are as follows:

Advanced Part rewards:
5 Star - 2 > 1
10 Star - 3 > 2
15 Star - 5 > 3

Pro Part rewards:
5 Star - 3 > 2
10 Star - 4 > 3
15 Star - 5 > 3

Still an occasional bonus part here and there. Just cleared today's Basic/Advanced/Pro challenges in around 75 minutes and earned: 22 parts / 3 coins / 580 Tickets. Most of that time was wasted on AFM Pro 15 star, not worth the effort.

 

[Gorgias32]

I was just thinking about the coins and parts drop rates, at this point I only have one table fully unlocked. I'm thinking that when the next pack drops, I am going to need to just buy it outright - otherwise I don't really believe there is any chance I will be able to reasonably earn coins and parts fast enough to keep up with the release schedule. I play every day and clear multiple level 1 challenges and the level 2 challenge generally to 15 stars, but with parts dropping for 9 tables it's already spread too thin.

 

[shutyertrap]

I spent so much time on Champion Pub Pro 1 ball last night, just a stupid amount. I wanted to finish then rather than try again in the morning. Muscle memory had me making the same mistakes over and over. Can’t tell you how many times I had a 32 million purse for Knuckles O’Brian only to lose the ball almost immediately after starting fight. I truly hate that table now.

 

[shutyertrap]

I was just thinking about the coins and parts drop rates, at this point I only have one table fully unlocked. I'm thinking that when the next pack drops, I am going to need to just buy it outright - otherwise I don't really believe there is any chance I will be able to reasonably earn coins and parts fast enough to keep up with the release schedule. I play every day and clear multiple level 1 challenges and the level 2 challenge generally to 15 stars, but with parts dropping for 9 tables it's already spread too thin.

You absolutely will need to purchase if fully unlocking is your goal. That’s the point I’m making, that even I with only one table left to upgrade and 60 coins collected, will now barely make that before Volume 4 presumably arrives. And I’m playing all 4 challenges to 15 stars daily. I was on pace to upgrade 7 days from now and then earn another 100 coins 14 after that to be in reserves. Now I’ll only be able to do 1 upgrade per release cycle.

For all I know larger coin packs are hidden under the coin cards. If they are, they will consistently be behind the same card of a certain challenge goal. Identify that, it’d be worth spending the coin needed. I had planned on doing just that after the upgrade, but now?

 

[MBeeching]

For all I know larger coin packs are hidden under the coin cards. If they are, they will consistently be behind the same card of a certain challenge goal. Identify that, it’d be worth spending the coin needed. I had planned on doing just that after the upgrade, but now?

If we can get a couple more people to assist with those coin flips we should be able to get a better impression. Though it's usually parts and I don't really need or want them at this stage. Just require a few more for Pro Physics then I'm happy to burn a few. Using coins to try and get more coins... blatant gambling

 

[Gorgias32]

The thing is, as we speculated before, they are not losing money when people grind to earn the parts. There has to be a drop frequency for various awards that is balanced so that it is possible for people to grind and watch > $10 revenue-worth of videos and unlock everything between major releases - this will keep people on the hook, Zen is maximizing their revenue, and everyone is happy. If they don't do this, they are leaving money on the table, as people will just quit grinding (and therefore watching videos), not to mention having the app turn away new users.

I also agree that they should really bring back the "$10 for pack x" offer from time to time - once there are a few more packs under their belt they could cycle it monthly or something.

Looking forward to hearing how your conversation goes with Zen, SYT - it's nice to have a man on the inside...

 

[shutyertrap]

Here's the summary after playing the app for 28 days

Level 35 (+2)
Tickets 12,065
Coins 60

Theatre of Magic: Fully upgraded (as of day 14)
Champion Pub: Fully upgraded (as of day 21)
Safe Cracker: 100/100 parts

So if anyone is questioning why we need a hard cap on table parts (not that any of you are)...
I had all the parts needed for Safe Cracker and Champion Pub within a day of each other.
It took me 6 days after having all the parts needed for Champion Pub to complete the upgrade with the needed 100 coins. In those 6 days, I earned another 96 parts for it.
During that same time I was also continuing to earn parts for Safe Cracker, and do so even now as I still need 40 more coins. In those 13 days since, I've earned 299 table parts.
Each table only needs 170 parts in total! I should be earning coins, or generic parts that can be converted later! If I were trying to collect for multiple other tables, this would drive me mad, seeing these wasted parts.

As stated a few posts ago, not only did parts collection get nerfed a bit, but coins did too it seems. Another week of data will tell the tale, and I'm hoping it's just a weird blip and not a trend. Meanwhile tickets got a major buff so long as you are playing Pro and Premium. You'll hardly notice a difference if you only play Basic and Advanced.


Percentages So Far

I've updated with another week's worth of data...

Theatre of Magic
43% of all challenges
11% of Basic
14% of Advanced
7% of Pro
11% of Premium

Safe Cracker
29% of all challenges
11% of Basic
7% of Advanced
7% of Pro
4% of Premium

Champion Pub
29% of all challenges
11% of Basic
11% of Advanced
7% of Pro
0% of Premium

Medieval Madness
32% of all challenges
4% of Basic
0% of Advanced
11% of Pro
18% of Premium

Getaway
46% of all challenges
14% of Basic
11% of Advanced
4% of Pro
18% of Premium

Junk Yard
43% of all challenges
14% of Basic
7% of Advanced
14% of Pro
7% of Premium

Attack From Mars
61% of all challenges
11% of Basic
25% of Advanced
11% of Pro
14% of Premium

Black Rose
36% of all challenges
7% of Basic
4% of Advanced
11% of Pro
14% of Premium

Party Zone
29% of all challenges
7% of Basic
11% of Advanced
7% of Pro
4% of Premium

Fish Tales
54% of all challenges
11% of Basic
11% of Advanced
21% of Pro
11% of Premium

Here's how often the challenges are coming up:

Basic 5 minute: 36%
Basic 1 ball: 29%
Basic survival: 36%

Advanced 5 minute: 14%
Advanced 1 ball: 43%
Advanced survival: 43%

Pro 5 minute: 36%
Pro 1 ball: 39%
Pro survival: 25%

Premium 5 minute: 46%
Premium 1 ball: 21%
Premium survival: 32%

With 4 weeks of data, things are not moving around so much anymore. There's even a bit of balance happening in terms of how often a table will appear in a particular challenge. Attack From Mars and Fish Tales still will appear more than 50% of the time though on any given day.

Next Time

I'm gonna have to see if Zen responds to my documents I sent or not. Mel forwarded them to the appropriate team, and wouldn't it be a right kick in the nuts if my data was the very reason things just changed again. Sorta like how soon after I was crowing about maxing out the original 7 tables in 16 days things suddenly got ugly when the Android open beta started 2 weeks later. My god, am I the root of this madness?? In my efforts to help, I'm instead dooming us all? How very Shakespearean.

 

[shutyertrap]

The thing is, as we speculated before, they are not losing money when people grind to earn the parts. There has to be a drop frequency for various awards that is balanced so that it is possible for people to grind and watch > $10 revenue-worth of videos and unlock everything between major releases - this will keep people on the hook, Zen is maximizing their revenue, and everyone is happy. If they don't do this, they are leaving money on the table, as people will just quit grinding (and therefore watching videos), not to mention having the app turn away new users.

I also agree that they should really bring back the "$10 for pack x" offer from time to time - once there are a few more packs under their belt they could cycle it monthly or something.

Looking forward to hearing how your conversation goes with Zen, SYT - it's nice to have a man on the inside...

Yeah, if you are going to make us watch videos, then a fair exchange is happening. There are other apps I play that don't have any sort of video, and guess what, you'll never be able to collect everything unless you spend years at it. I also think Zen needs to introduce loyalty drops. In other words, get a small drop on 2nd day in a row of play, slightly larger on 3rd day, until finally a big one on the 7th day. That ensures people are coming back regularly too. The XP level rewards are a complete joke, worse than a 'thanks for participating' award. How 'bout dropping rewards for achieving things in Arcade mode and not just Challenge?

I know I keep bringing this app up, but Clash Royale just did a huge update to their app to reward players more. The ladder system now has regular rewards for climbing higher, and they keep having mini tourneys to participate in for more rewards. This on top of the daily chests you open, the clan you can trade cards with, and the wars you play in with your clan that earn huge sums of coins. Each month their is a season summary reward, and in general it just feels like I'm constantly earning. That being said, this is the app that without spending actual money, there's not a chance in hell you'll ever collect everything to its max. But since I never have to watch videos and I'm free to play as much as I want on any given day, I'm never concerned with where I'm at in collections.

 

[msilcommand]

I was just thinking about the coins and parts drop rates, at this point I only have one table fully unlocked. I'm thinking that when the next pack drops, I am going to need to just buy it outright - otherwise I don't really believe there is any chance I will be able to reasonably earn coins and parts fast enough to keep up with the release schedule. I play every day and clear multiple level 1 challenges and the level 2 challenge generally to 15 stars, but with parts dropping for 9 tables it's already spread too thin.

Definitely better to just buy. I am usually a grinder, but this f2p setup is impossible with 9 tables. I bought the first two when it released, so it is much easier earning for just 3 tables, but I still haven't unlocked any of them yet. Although I don't play mobile much.

 

[msilcommand]

If we can get a couple more people to assist with those coin flips we should be able to get a better impression. Though it's usually parts and I don't really need or want them at this stage. Just require a few more for Pro Physics then I'm happy to burn a few. Using coins to try and get more coins... blatant gambling

I got the game when it first released, and didn't know how the coin system worked, so I used my coins for rewards every time for a while. Not once did I get more coins lol. It was usually just a special affect or a cool ball or set of flippers.