Williams Pinball App Discussion

[MBeeching]

Why am i having a zen coin taken away everytime i complete a challenge. It gives an error connecting to server warning and takes a coin away every single time. I dont remember it doing tbis before, ive lost 15 or 20 zen coins in the last couple days and now im almost out, was trying to save them but they just get taken away

That doesn't sound good, it should only deduct coins for reward card flips or Advanced/Pro Challenge refreshes (absurd at 5 coins!).
Does it deduct a coin before or after you open the suitcase? Be useful to take screenshots as evidence (hold Power & Volume Down buttons).

 

[Pete]

So its not nornal then... after i open a suit case it gives an error connecting to server message. I have never not been given this error the entire time ive used the app but it didnt used to take coins away. After the error message it takes a coin away and then plays a commercial. Its like its punishing me for not watchung a commercial because it cant connect but then shows one anyway.

 

[MBeeching]

So its not nornal then... after i open a suit case it gives an error connecting to server message. I have never not been given this error the entire time ive used the app but it didnt used to take coins away. After the error message it takes a coin away and then plays a commercial. Its like its punishing me for not watchung a commercial because it cant connect but then shows one anyway.

No that's definitely not normal. Take one screenshot on the results screen then another after immediately after opening the suitcase. The status bars will appear on both so it should be fairly easy for Zen to authenticate and confirm the issue you're having.

 

[shutyertrap]

I already posted this in my data collection thread, but there's more of you here!

I'm thinking of writing up a massive guide for posting on the BlahCade site as well as sending to This Week In Pinball about all I'm finding out with this app. I need some help though, as there is info I don't remember. I mainly need to know...

- When first downloading the app, what are the requirements for playing the Basic daily challenge? Are you only able to play the table you first selected until you've collected parts for others?

In other words, if you selected say MM as your starter table, are you playing that dialy in Basic challenge until you have enough parts and tickets to upgrade another table? Are there days a different table is the Basic challenge and you therefore can't play because you haven't upgraded that table yet? Once you have upgraded another table to 1 star, does it start rotating between those two tables?

- What are the base number of stars needed for a table in order to play Advanced? What about for Pro?

I'm guessing that a 2 star table (15 parts/750 tickets) is needed to play the Advanced challenge? And then 3 star (50 parts/3000 tickets) for Pro? I'm also wondering if the table rotation follows the same guidelines, where it cycles through only tables you've upgraded or does it cycle through them all and you are locked out if you haven't upgraded? I know with Premium challenge I never got ToM, SC, or CP until they were at 3 stars, but I can't say for sure if it was because of the stars or that when they finally rotated in I happened to have already upgraded to that point.

- Can anyone answer what happens regarding 'limited time offer' when downloading for the first time now? Are all 3 Volumes offered or just the most recent?

I know my gut reaction to seeing offers like these in any mobile app is to immediately dismiss them, especially if I haven't even had enough time with the game to decide if it's worth it. However, with the Williams App the only way you'll be able to climb your way out of the pit to have a chance to upgrade all tables fully is to either been playing since release or spend money right off the top and then grind to stay afloat. Their simply won't be enough time to earn what you need to earn before another pack drops and 3 more possible table parts start diluting the pool of parts to randomly flip cards for. Thing is, how is a new user supposed to know that?

I want to write this guide from the perspective of what to do if you are brand new to the app, as well as offer advice for those that want to spend as little money as possible. I don't have any additional mobile devices to start new with, but I'm hoping that some of you who maybe abandoned the app right away might be able to fill in these blanks for me.

 

[1adam12]

Here's what little I can contribute -

On Android, whatever table you unlock is your daily challenge table. However, a pvp challenge will give you a list of 3 options. They may include tables you haven't unlocked, but you can spend tickets and play the challenge. I believe you're trying to score more points than the other player in an allotted amount of time.

On iOS, the daily challenge has the same restriction. You can only play on the same table until you get enough parts to unlock another.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[shutyertrap]

Here's what little I can contribute -

On Android, whatever table you unlock is your daily challenge table. However, a pvp challenge will give you a list of 3 options. They may include tables you haven't unlocked, but you can spend tickets and play the challenge. I believe you're trying to score more points than the other player in an allotted amount of time.

On iOS, the daily challenge has the same restriction. You can only play on the same table until you get enough parts to unlock another.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Thanks for that info nugget.

I can't recall if it was during the iOS beta or that first week of the app going live where the challenges were grayed out if you didn't have the table upgraded. And unfortunately, I can't use any of my own experience with starting the app fresh since Zen was still messing with requirements, having people on different requirement models, and I was able to upgrade all 7 tables fully in 16 days. Now it appears everyone is playing on the same model, and I can only write from the perspective of upgrading these last 3 tables (which I've unlocked ToM already, have all the parts for SC and CP, just need the coins). And no, I'm not gonna start all over again just as an experiment!

I'm not gonna write up anything about the Android pvp challenge or the iOS Skillz multiplayer, mainly because I don't have Android and the Skillz thing has its own currency separate from the app. What is the cost/reward for playing the PvP challenge? Is it worth it? That's the question I've had to ask myself with the Premium challenge, as it's 25 tickets a try and you'll burn through 'em quick, all for rewards that are lackluster (a +5 parts in 10 star, and usually around 150 tix for 15 stars, everything else is flippers and ball trails).

 

[1adam12]

Thanks for that info nugget.

I can't recall if it was during the iOS beta or that first week of the app going live where the challenges were grayed out if you didn't have the table upgraded. And unfortunately, I can't use any of my own experience with starting the app fresh since Zen was still messing with requirements, having people on different requirement models, and I was able to upgrade all 7 tables fully in 16 days. Now it appears everyone is playing on the same model, and I can only write from the perspective of upgrading these last 3 tables (which I've unlocked ToM already, have all the parts for SC and CP, just need the coins). And no, I'm not gonna start all over again just as an experiment!

I'm not gonna write up anything about the Android pvp challenge or the iOS Skillz multiplayer, mainly because I don't have Android and the Skillz thing has its own currency separate from the app. What is the cost/reward for playing the PvP challenge? Is it worth it? That's the question I've had to ask myself with the Premium challenge, as it's 25 tickets a try and you'll burn through 'em quick, all for rewards that are lackluster (a +5 parts in 10 star, and usually around 150 tix for 15 stars, everything else is flippers and ball trails).

I've only played pvp challenge mode a few times. I believe the cost was 15 tickets, but it's been a little while since I've played.

Good luck with your project. It sounds like zen had a lot ideas and ran with as many as they could.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[trash80]

Thanks for that info nugget.

I can't recall if it was during the iOS beta or that first week of the app going live where the challenges were grayed out if you didn't have the table upgraded. And unfortunately, I can't use any of my own experience with starting the app fresh since Zen was still messing with requirements, having people on different requirement models, and I was able to upgrade all 7 tables fully in 16 days. Now it appears everyone is playing on the same model, and I can only write from the perspective of upgrading these last 3 tables (which I've unlocked ToM already, have all the parts for SC and CP, just need the coins). And no, I'm not gonna start all over again just as an experiment!

I'm not gonna write up anything about the Android pvp challenge or the iOS Skillz multiplayer, mainly because I don't have Android and the Skillz thing has its own currency separate from the app. What is the cost/reward for playing the PvP challenge? Is it worth it? That's the question I've had to ask myself with the Premium challenge, as it's 25 tickets a try and you'll burn through 'em quick, all for rewards that are lackluster (a +5 parts in 10 star, and usually around 150 tix for 15 stars, everything else is flippers and ball trails).

The "PVP Challenge" is League Play. The cost is 25 tickets and you are rewarded in crowns which level up your league rank. Each of the three players it matches you against shows their current XP level and the three difficulty levels reward 18/46/76 crowns (for me at least).

Oddly enough (and for me), the supposed most difficult (3 star) challenge level seems to pick a competitor that is XP level 1, so I am not sure how this league play feature is actually matching you up against other players. And if it is like the normal PC Pinball FX3 matchup mode, you aren't really 'competing' against the chosen player.

You can refresh your League Play selection of the three tables and opponents for 50 tickets.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

The cost for Android League Play is 25 tickets per game.

You are given 3 choices:
1* to win 15 or so points
2* to win 45 or so points
3* to win 75 or so points

Each is on a different table, against a random "opponent". I don't think the opponent matters. The table can be any table, even ones you've not unlocked.

You play a timed 3 minute game with infinite ball saver.

At the end of the 3 minutes if you have a higher score than your opponent you win. Otherwise you lose, and lose points, usually around 20.

As you gain points you gain levels:
Burgundy III, II I
Silver III, II, I
Gold III, II, I
Platinum III, II, I
Diamond III, II, I

Each league season runs for about a month. At the end of the month you get a reward depending on your level.

But... so far in 3 league seasons, I've not had a reward payout, and I'm not alone. Twice I've contacted support and got some compensation, but I can't be bothered any more. I'm just not going to play any more until it's fixed.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[shutyertrap]

Sounds to me like League Play is just a waste of tickets. Climbing the ranks is gonna take what, at least 5 wins per level? Even more as you get higher (like it is on PC matchups), so unless the payout is either a large drop of coins, say more than 10, and a huge payout in tickets, like all your entry costs and then doubled, the reward won’t be worth the cost.

 

[Nighthawk]

I have found league play to be wothwhile. I have received 2 sets of rewards. Both were 500 tickets and 15 Zen coins each time. I only played a few games, enough to get me to mid to upper level Burgundy II. I probably spent around 200 to 300 tickets to get there.

 

[1adam12]

Sorry for that bit of misinformation. Thought it was 15 to play.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[shutyertrap]

So just based on this information, if someone were to start the app today, here's the kind of crazy numbers they'd be up against...

With 10 tables available, there are 1700 parts in total needed. 700 just to get all tables to 3 star level so that you can play Pro challenge. The remaining 1000 would be for max upgrade. Even though this isn't how it works, let's pretend once you had all 170 parts for any one table, you no longer got those. This allows for figuring out at the bare minimum what it would take in days to max things out.

Since you can only play Basic and Advanced challenges until you've reached 3 stars, the most parts per day you can earn is 16. That means getting all 10 tables to 3 stars is going to take 44 days under the very best of conditions.
Once Pro challenge is open, you can now earn a maximum of 29 parts per day. The remaining 1000 parts needed will take 35 days at best.
So technically it would take 79 days. Yes that's a grind, but doable.

Here's where this all falls apart.

A new pack is supposed to release every 6-8 weeks. So say the person downloading doesn't do so until the next release and they have 13 tables to deal with collecting for. It's now going to take 102 days minimum. Except a new pack will drop 42-56 days into that. And oh yeah, there's those pesky coins needed to finish off the upgrades. At best in that 6-8 week time period I can earn 300-400 coins, or just enough to upgrade 3 or 4 tables before another 3 drops.

You're shoveling dirt out of the pit, but Zen keeps adding more dirt than you can possibly shovel.

I'm well aware this is what Freemium software apps do, they gotta make their money after all. They want to encourage you to buy the currency needed to catch up. The best of them though let you debate what is more valuable, your time or your money, and ideally the choice should be balanced. The way things are going to go with this app, and indeed they are there already, is that your time will NEVER be as valuable as money. Not only will a new person not see the finish line, it keeps moving farther and farther away at a rate that would discourage them from even buying the currency. Worse yet, all my numbers were based on parts having a hard cap, which they don't.

The way I see it, Zen needs to put a hard cap on parts, that you stop collecting for a table once you've found 170 parts for it. It should not matter if you upgrade it or not. Next, coins need to increase in drops so that in 6 weeks you could earn 400 coins, and 540 in 8. That would allow for you to always be upgrading 1 more table than what gets added. It'll still be a slow grind, but you'll get there eventually. In the meantime, you'll be watching so many videos that surely Zen will have gotten its money value out of you from that alone. Finally, they need to offer half off sales on in game currency every so often. That way you can speed up your process of collecting if you've simply had enough, without feeling like a sucker for not getting the limited time offer right when you first downloaded the app and didn't know better!

As I've said before, I'm actually quite appreciative of the Freemium model, so that I can play without paying at all. I just don't think people should be punished with an impossible task simply because they weren't there at app's launch.

 

[MBeeching]

My progress isn't too bad considering all the useless parts I'm awarded. I reckon a determined newcomer could promote most tables to Grade 2, and perhaps a couple to grade 3 within a month if they grind basic challenges.

Vol 3 Parts - Day 20
ToM - 21/50
SC - 44/50
CP - 40/50

- Sod's law, ToM is one of my favourite tables and I want to upgrade it to level 3. The parts never drop
- Champion Pub is good though I find the gameplay tiring like Junk Yard and don't want to play it more often than necessary.
- I like Safe Cracker but the constant SDTM's off the pop bumpers are unbelievably annoying, it's doubtful I will upgrade it any further.

Got a new phone on the way, Xiaomi's Poco F1. Can't wait to see how the gameplay experience compares with my ageing Moto G4 and curious to see whether it resolves the longstanding issues on Black Rose and Party Zone.

 

[wilbers]

Best case for collecting things is likely to be even further off for someone completely new to those tables as opposed to someone who has played them on another platform and has at least some idea of what to aim for before starting the grind.

Also seems to be some differences in how the tables are set up. Hitting Merlin's Magic in the mobile app always gives me 1M first time its hit (regardless of where the drawbridge & gate are), whereas in FX3 its more varied. Also, most of the time with a ball trapped on the flipper I can't get it all the way up the ramps, whereas in FX3 I can - has the flipper strength been reduced for mobile, and is it the same when you fully unlock the table?

I posted in the other thread, but in case anyone missed it to start with a clean slate you can try https://www.bluestacks.com/blog/bluestacks-exclusives/how-to-install-bluestacks-windows-10.html (download the Williams app after that) if you have an alternate Google account you want to experiment with.

 

[Fungi]

So just based on this information, ...

... so that I can play without paying at all. I just don't think people should be punished with an impossible task simply because they weren't there at app's launch.

Thanks for this. Now I know I'm just gonna plunk down the $10 as soon as I can.

 

[shutyertrap]

Thanks for this. Now I know I'm just gonna plunk down the $10 as soon as I can.

Happy to help. It's a good app, once you get past the sticker/grind shock. If I can do anything to set expectations prior to downloading, I think the app will be much better received.

 

[trash80]

Best case for collecting things is likely to be even further off for someone completely new to those tables as opposed to someone who has played them on another platform and has at least some idea of what to aim for before starting the grind.

Also seems to be some differences in how the tables are set up. Hitting Merlin's Magic in the mobile app always gives me 1M first time its hit (regardless of where the drawbridge & gate are), whereas in FX3 its more varied. Also, most of the time with a ball trapped on the flipper I can't get it all the way up the ramps, whereas in FX3 I can - has the flipper strength been reduced for mobile, and is it the same when you fully unlock the table?

I posted in the other thread, but in case anyone missed it to start with a clean slate you can try https://www.bluestacks.com/blog/bluestacks-exclusives/how-to-install-bluestacks-windows-10.html (download the Williams app after that) if you have an alternate Google account you want to experiment with.

Challenge Mode uses a tournament-like rule set so you will always get the score, this is the same for all the tables in this mode. Challenge mode could be a nuisance otherwise.

You shouldn't expect the tables to play the same from Mobile to PC, they are similar, but there are some very unique to the mobile platform quirks that can make for some odd situations (like the flippers).

 

[Gorgias32]

Having a hard cap where you wouldn't accrue any more parts when you hit the max number for full upgrade (170) would be a really great thing for Zen to implement, I second this request. Would still be a hard grind for new players, but at least you would know that there is a feasible end point to all the grinding.

 

[abouttreefitty]

This will never happen, but they should change the parts from being table specific to simply general parts. Restructure the number of parts for the specific unlock tiers.