Windows 10

[AshleyAshes]

What do you mean by this? Can you be more specific?

For TPA, the majority of the money is made on Android and iOS. Consoles and PC would be a secondary market in comparison to those larger markets. Certianly they all generate profit or one of them would be abandoned, but it still means that DX12 on PC would consume resources while likely having a negligible effect on sales.

 

[invitro]

For TPA, the majority of the money is made on Android and iOS. Consoles and PC would be a secondary market in comparison to those larger markets.

Can you give percentages? What %age of the money is made on PSN, versus Android, iOS, PC, Xbox, OSX, etc.?

The only data I have is leaderboard data, and in the top 2000 scores for each table, the platform used the most is PSN. iOS is a close second, PC is third, Android is fourth, and OSX is a distant fifth. (I don't have access to Xbox numbers of course.)

Actual numbers:

tpa platform distribution in top 2000 scores for each table, 2015-08-08 .csv files:
125620 total:
-- psn     47607  38%
-- ios     40160  32%
-- pc      19541  16%
-- android 16578  13%
-- osx      1168   1%

 

[AshleyAshes]

Leaderboards seem like a slippery area to look at since leaderboards are more likely to be used by more involved players, and players who are more involved and hardcore would lean towards console or PC.

If you look at SteamSpy however, TPA has about 450 000 'users', which is people who have installed the game, however this doesn't directly translate to sales since the base game on PC and mobile is free. But in comparison, the Google Play store puts the base game at a whopping 5-10 million downloads. iTunes does not publicly list

There's also been staff comments that some of the bean counters thought that TPA wouldn't sell at ALL on PC, but it did surprise them. So while it's selling competently, even the experts don't see it dethroneing their mobile sales.

It's also been made clear on this forum time and time again that mobile is the development priority.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Well maybe look at the number of scores for Season 4 tables. That would give a good idea of the current user base, since all of those are recent and paid-for either via season pass or individually.

 

[AshleyAshes]

Well maybe look at the number of scores for Season 4 tables. That would give a good idea of the current user base, since all of those are recent and paid-for either via season pass or individually.

Your assumption there is that all users buy all the tables. Every month a new table comes out, the game makes a blip in gaming news, this also attracts entirely new players who won't necessarily buy every season or buy them in order of release. The game even has individual table/pairs of table purchases for this reason.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Your assumption there is that all users buy all the tables. Every month a new table comes out, the game makes a blip in gaming news, this also attracts entirely new players who won't necessarily buy every season or buy them in order of release. The game even has individual table/pairs of table purchases for this reason.

I'm not making that assumption.

I'm assuming that if someone buys a table, they're going to play it at least once, and generate a leaderboard entry.

However one thing the leaderboards doesn't and can't legislate for, is users who don't create a Farsight account or don't log in, for whatever reasons. They won't show up in the PC, Android, or iOS leaderboards.

I suspect that PSN users don't have any choice, and that is probably true for XBLIVE users too.

That said I think the sample size is large enough that using the platforms of the Top 2000 scores averaged across all Season 4 tables, possibly weighted in favor of the most recent table, would give a decent idea of the user base.

 

[AshleyAshes]

However one thing the leaderboards doesn't and can't legislate for, is users who don't create a Farsight account or don't log in, for whatever reasons. They won't show up in the PC, Android, or iOS leaderboards.

I suspect that PSN users don't have any choice, and that is probably true for XBLIVE users too.

A lot of people probably don't. They just want to get their pinball on while they commute to work or wait for friends or whatever else. If making a FarSight account offers nothing but leaderboards on mobile, you'll find a lot of people just won't bother. Even on PC, I only use my FarSight account because that's the only way I'm getting my Addams Family Kickstarter reward. I'm not interested in online high scores, I just want to beat my friends who are also in the room with me.

 

[invitro]

That said I think the sample size is large enough that using the platforms of the Top 2000 scores averaged across all Season 4 tables, possibly weighted in favor of the most recent table, would give a decent idea of the user base.

Here are the numbers for Season 3 and Season 4.

tpa: platform distribution in top 2000 scores for each Season 3 table, 2015-08-08 .csv files:
20089 total:
-- ios      7120  35%
-- psn      6339  32%
-- pc       3485  17%
-- android  2884  14%
-- osx       172   1%


tpa: platform distribution in top 2000 scores for each Season 3 table, 2015-08-08 .csv files:
23154
-- ios      8208  35%
-- psn      5029  22%
-- android  4888  21%
-- pc       4700  20%
-- osx       229   1%

PSN doesn't have all Season 4 tables yet, right?

 

[invitro]

Leaderboards seem like a slippery area to look at since leaderboards are more likely to be used by more involved players

I don't think so... the leaderboards are used by anyone who is logged in.

If you look at SteamSpy however, TPA has about 450 000 'users', which is people who have installed the game, however this doesn't directly translate to sales since the base game on PC and mobile is free. But in comparison, the Google Play store puts the base game at a whopping 5-10 million downloads.

How many downloads per user is that on Google Play?

There's also been staff comments that some of the bean counters thought that TPA wouldn't sell at ALL on PC, but it did surprise them. So while it's selling competently, even the experts don't see it dethroneing their mobile sales.

There's a wide gap between saying PC sells more than mobile, and saying "The PC isn't a large market", which is your claim.

It's also been made clear on this forum time and time again that mobile is the development priority.

I don't remember this being a fact... can you link to proof of this?

 

[invitro]

Your assumption there is that all users buy all the tables.

I don't see that he made anything like this assumption... why do you say this?

 

[soundwave106]

There's also been staff comments that some of the bean counters thought that TPA wouldn't sell at ALL on PC, but it did surprise them. So while it's selling competently, even the experts don't see it dethroneing their mobile sales.
It's also been made clear on this forum time and time again that mobile is the development priority.

With the problems Farsight has had with pushing table updates to various mobile and console platforms, I wonder if that is still the case.

(I frankly doubt Farsight has a "priority" these days to be honest, from the leaderboard numbers, the only serious laggard is OSX. I would tend to agree with the speculation that PC users are a touch less in number, might be "more hardcore" / dedicated and therefore buy more tables -- only speculation though. Note that Xbox -- which doesn't show up in the leaderboards -- is built on similar technology as PC / Steam would be, and I'm going to speculate that Xbox has probably similar numbers to PSN. It really doesn't make sense to say "PC is not a priority" unless Xbox isn't a priority as well.)

 

[Extork]

Just picture all the people on they damn phones walkin into manholes. Dey prolly be playin the ponball. Need I say mo'?

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Like I said, PSN and XBLIVE users are forced to log in and have their scores reported by their respective platforms. This leads to inflation of PSN numbers, because 100% of people who played a table and got a Top 2000 score are being listed.

We have no way of knowing the percentage of Android, iOS, and Steam users that do not use a Farsight login when they play, and thus don't upload scores.

 

[Extork]

The iOS users should win a free shirt for creating a login. That way 3 people will create a log, and be able to post legitimately. Log

 

[AshleyAshes]

Guys, if you want to believe something other than mobile being the highest priority and PC being the lowest priority, fine. But maybe you should ask yourselves why the game was pushed out on mobile two months before any other platform and why PC was pushed out six months AFTER all other platforms (at the time)? Keeping in mind that while Xbox One an PS4 ports came later, both respective hardware platforms weren't even launched when the PC version was released.

And everyone is still ignoring that there's no point to port the Xbox One version to DX12 when the game already works fine on DX11. Or the support demands in a more finicky DX12 version on PC. (Ease of compatibility is one of the major costs of DX12's speed improvements) We're talking about a company where devs have stated that they don't even have any AMD machines in the office for testing, so that alone has caused some unique AMD issues on DX11.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Who else but yourself has stated a belief that one platform is prioritized over another?

Who cares about DX12 right now? Nobody does. It's a non-issue because as has been explained, DX12 doesn't actually give you a better experience; implementing in an existing game isn't worth the effort. The whole DX12 "issue" is a joke over the fact it took so long for DX11 to appear.

Additionally, since Windows 10 is a universal platform, it is theoretically possible to run the Steam version on any Windows 10 device with an Intel processor.

 

[Biff]

it is theoretically possible to run the Steam version on any Windows 10 device with an Intel processor.

Let's just say x86 processor, mkay?

 

[invitro]

Just picture all the people on they damn phones walkin into manholes. Dey prolly be playin the ponball.

You just wish ur ponballs were playin in a manhole...

 

[rehtroboi40]

For TPA, the majority of the money is made on Android and iOS. Consoles and PC would be a secondary market in comparison to those larger markets. Certianly they all generate profit or one of them would be abandoned, but it still means that DX12 on PC would consume resources while likely having a negligible effect on sales.

Despite my recent sarcasm about TPA and DX12, right now I'm not for it. That's at least a $1,000 GPU for me, as opposed to just $200-$300 for the one I will need for DX11.

I'm still just fine with nine. Also, SC (in DX9) really impressed me with how good it looks. No need to fork over that kind of money just for making tables look marginally better. Although I like that we finally have strobe in AFM. Next up, floodlights for LCA. Oh wait, those are already in DX9, and not DX11. LOL!

 

[mpad]

To name our quest for realistic lighting after a graphic api was maybe not the best thing to do in the first place. While the current dual version makes things complicated and is a pita with steam (dx11 for default!!!) I am perfectly happy with the current lihhting engine. It looks just beautiful how different lights and colors blend together, not those fake hue things. The Pink **** is gone. we can lower the lights!!! Great.
This was long overdue and a huge step forward.
Dx12 will bring no real advantage besides future compatibility.
And you can get a perfectly fine dx11 card for 60 bucks on eBay