WMS License - Speculation Thread

[Citizen]

Same reason no one will ever digitize Game Plan tables. No one knows who, if anyone, still owns them.

Well, that and probably general lack of interest in them. But it still makes me sad.

 

[Striker]

I can not believe when you rent a license for years, on numerous platforms, and you make a mistake by bringing it on a new platform the holders instantly stop the complete license.

That does not make any sense.

Never, ever underestimate the ego of a slighted business executive. Maybe the Scientific Games exec was trying to gain leverage to squeeze more money out of a renewal.

Also, keep in mind Scientific Games has not turned a profit since . . . as far back as I can tell, like 2013 or something. Gobbling up the WMS/Bally IP was considering a smart move since IP usually can generate nice profits. Heck, they acquired rights to the James Bond franchise last year. In SG's case, however, this has not helped them get out of the red. I think they also recently fired-and-hired another CEO, which seems to be a biennial occurrence at the company. Not exactly the hallmarks of a well-run company.

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

Is it wrong that I'm hoping for them to go under so the IP comes be up for grabs?

 

[StarDust4Ever]

Is it wrong that I'm hoping for them to go under so the IP comes be up for grabs?

Farsight better start saving up so they can buy them back. I would suggest a "bring back Williams/Bally" Kickstarter, but generally when rights come up for sale, you don't have a month to raise capital to buy them...

 

[vfpcoder]

More and more I’m starting to believe in the “Stern Conspiracy”.

 

[chinzman93]

I just heard #143. Did you guy's get the survey from Arcooda? It was a very interesting survey! There does appear to be a plan going forward. I still think something is in the works! I am still 100% standing behind the Stern Conspiracy!?!

Or possibly now.....an Austalian double cross! Where SG and Arcooda got together on a conference call with Farsight....muted the phone....and came up with a deal (with Gary Stern....lol)!

 

[chinzman93]

Just another comment...There is nothing that Arcooda is doing that hasn't been available with additional freeware software in the VP or FP community for several years when I was still putting VP tables out. DMD support has been around. So has Avtive Backglass and shaker and contact support. The equal of Kinetic support has been around for a couple of years in the FP community. Arcooda is just the first commercial company to try this.....the hobby has had most of this for several years. EDIT: I will add Arcooda doing this is great! A consistent commercial product that has these features is something I would pay quite a bit for....and indicated so in the survey!

 

[StarDust4Ever]

That's all well and good, but what about pinball fans who have neither the space nor the money for full scale pinball tables, real or simulated? Pinball Arcade has been absolutely amazing on that front, and done amazing things to preserve pinball and expose new players to the joy of pinball.

 

[chinzman93]

That's all well and good, but what about pinball fans who have neither the space nor the money for full scale pinball tables, real or simulated? Pinball Arcade has been absolutely amazing on that front, and done amazing things to preserve pinball and expose new players to the joy of pinball.

I agree...TPA's product has opened up doors for Pinball in general! Particularly in the mobile and gaming space. But I would say that contributions from the VP and FP community prior to TPA also helped quite a bit and should not be discounted. This is a community that was filled with people that played the real games as kids. The introduction of TPA on phones and gaming consoles for a new generation should also not be discounted.

 

[tripletopper]

Heck, since this company makes money off gambling, and anything that has either NO luck factor, or a STANDARDIZED luck factor can be defined as legal skil-based wagering, which doesn't need a state license, except to prove your game is legal as a skill game, (STANDARD randomization is for example on your first hand of a skill version Texas Hold Em, you and every opponent you play against starts with a J 7 suited in the same suit, and computerized opponents, who react to the same assuming you do one particular action, would have Q 2 unsuited (unbeknownst to you) in that exact same hand, so every one is in the same situation, it just depends on how you play what you're given.) so anything random may be different from playthrough to playthrough, but for example if you get 50K on the first spin of the mystery wheel, then everyone connected on the same game gets 50K on the first spin of the mystery wheel. Or if it advances one slot for each bumper and slingshot hit, then it depends on how you play, but the wheel starts at the same point at the beginning of the ball.

All you have to do is either remove random elements or both standardize them and at the start sync them, then you can legally gamble on your skills at Pinball tables, and the comapny can make a portion of the money by taking a cut from each player.

Also, you don't have to have have people pay money to make money. Gambling is a more fertile ground for free advergaming, let that be the basis of paying your entry fee into skill tournaments, pay a token free amount fo prizes, and the rest goes to the companies. it can be both the physical and virtual versions.

 

[Rayder]

Something I've been thinking about......

OK....let's take the PS4 version of TPA as the example. All those Williams/Bally tables are embedded into the main TPA file, but were always locked behind a paywall, whether it be an individual sale or the season passes to access them, right? Anyone who bought them prior to the license expiry (as I have) will always keep them, so they must stay a part of the main TPA file, but Farsight isn't allowed to "sell" them anymore.
OK then, would Farsight get in trouble (or better yet, how much trouble would they get in) if they just let everyone have them for free now? You know, maybe like an unadvertised bonus, or maybe an "oopsie" update that "accidentally" allowed anyone with TPA installed to suddenly have access to ALL the Williams/Bally tables that Farsight isn't allowed to "sell" anymore. Would that actually breach the expired contract? They wouldn't be selling them, just allowing access to Farsight's hard work that has to be part of the main TPA file anyway.

 

[ScotchYeti]

This would be the end of Farsight.

 

[shutyertrap]

Something I've been thinking about......

OK....let's take the PS4 version of TPA as the example. All those Williams/Bally tables are embedded into the main TPA file, but were always locked behind a paywall, whether it be an individual sale or the season passes to access them, right? Anyone who bought them prior to the license expiry (as I have) will always keep them, so they must stay a part of the main TPA file, but Farsight isn't allowed to "sell" them anymore.
OK then, would Farsight get in trouble (or better yet, how much trouble would they get in) if they just let everyone have them for free now? You know, maybe like an unadvertised bonus, or maybe an "oopsie" update that "accidentally" allowed anyone with TPA installed to suddenly have access to ALL the Williams/Bally tables that Farsight isn't allowed to "sell" anymore. Would that actually breach the expired contract? They wouldn't be selling them, just allowing access to Farsight's hard work that has to be part of the main TPA file anyway.

Just because they no longer have a contract with them doesn't mean they suddenly can ignore their old one. There would be filings for damages and the studio would get their butts sued off. Licenses change hands all the time in business, have you ever seen another company do what you are wondering about? Of course not!

 

[wilbers]

How likely is it that Farsight will get a new license from SG, but with different terms than the previous one?

One thing we do know now is that they haven't announced a new licensee in the last 6 weeks which reduces the likelihood of that happening somewhat. The other obvious possible revenue stream for SG that doesn't currently exist but could with some effort is a coin-op virtual pinball table with only Bally & Williams tables on it. Maybe from their point of view a license that allows TPA tables to run on it with a re-designed front-end from Farsight (or less likely a different developer for just the UI part) being a condition of a new license and expressly forbidding Farsight to make other coin-ops with Bally / Williams tables makes sense; without trying it, bit of an unknown how big a market there is for it - would seem to be lower risk for operators than a handful of actual pinball machines, and likely not have potential maintenance problems associated with it.

Also, with seasons 1-7 gone for good any Bally / Williams tables would be in manufacturer packs instead of season packs so SG would be able to control the pricing on TPA somewhat.

I only discovered Pinball Arcade existed on 29th June, came up in Steam recommendations feed through random chance. I didn't buy any season packs (they had already been removed from Steam, only the in-app option available), but did
get ST:TNG as a single table purchase so at least I could have a proper go on it. Ended up with 35 tables in FX3 instead, but if the others had been available for longer would have added some of those as well.

 

[Nomorestalker]

How likely is it that Farsight will get a new license from SG, but with different terms than the previous one?

One thing we do know now is that they haven't announced a new licensee in the last 6 weeks which reduces the likelihood of that happening somewhat. The other obvious possible revenue stream for SG that doesn't currently exist but could with some effort is a coin-op virtual pinball table with only Bally & Williams tables on it. Maybe from their point of view a license that allows TPA tables to run on it with a re-designed front-end from Farsight (or less likely a different developer for just the UI part) being a condition of a new license and expressly forbidding Farsight to make other coin-ops with Bally / Williams tables makes sense; without trying it, bit of an unknown how big a market there is for it - would seem to be lower risk for operators than a handful of actual pinball machines, and likely not have potential maintenance problems associated with it.

Also, with seasons 1-7 gone for good any Bally / Williams tables would be in manufacturer packs instead of season packs so SG would be able to control the pricing on TPA somewhat.

I only discovered Pinball Arcade existed on 29th June, came up in Steam recommendations feed through random chance. I didn't buy any season packs (they had already been removed from Steam, only the in-app option available), but did
get ST:TNG as a single table purchase so at least I could have a proper go on it. Ended up with 35 tables in FX3 instead, but if the others had been available for longer would have added some of those as well.

Not sure how likely it is as it seems even farsight is looking ahead with their Sten/sega/Data East/gottlieb possibly others licence. I'll tell you what I am ready for is information about anything new from farsight. We've known for a year what the next two tables are going to be, I'm ready to get those table hint emails again and being excited knowing "x" is right around the corner.

 

[shutyertrap]

FarSight has zero chance of getting the license back. I personally visited them, they are moving on.

 

[big_kick]

Oh, Zen got WMS license...

 

[shutyertrap]

Oh, Zen got WMS license...

...and that's why FarSight has zero chance of getting back the WMS license!

 

[Kolchak357]

Guess we can close this thread. Head over to the new thread JM started. Glad the license isn't going to just rot on the vine.

 

[shutyertrap]

We can leave it open for a bit longer. Maybe people have more speculating to do!