Your 5 least-liked tables in TPA

[HotHamBoy]

I should not have made this thread, lol.

I don't understand how anyone can put these tables on their list:

Red and Ted Road Show
Earthshaker
Star Trek TNG
Cirqus Voltair
Judge Dredd
Funhouse

All of thise tables are truly excellent all-around, IMO. They're also about as good as you could hope for in TPA, especially the Season 1 tables when compared to other S1 table implementations.

Granted, everyone is has their own taste, but there are far worse tables in TPA

These I can understand, but only because of the TPA implementation and not the IRL tables:
Black Knight
Bride of Pinbot
Scared Stiff
(And i'll add CftBL to that)

Every table in TPA would benefit from better physics. The vacuum lanes in Scared Stiff and Creature completely ruin those games for me. I still kinda like playing BoPB, though.

 

[JefferyD]

I don’t carry much dislike for any table since I learned to tolerate and even embrace Dr. Dude; but now that we have the snazzy random table feature I’ve noticed these are the ones I skip most every time:

Creature From the Black Lagoon- I know I’ve typed this before but I have a terrible time seeing this table. Cluttered, busy, lanes and ramps that I just can’t make out. I think I need a better camera angle or eyes about 10 years younger. It’s one of my fave monster movies, and I want to like it, but it’s just a difficult read for me.

White Water- Similar visual difficulties. Harshly lit, Can't find a good camera angle and I can’t find a replacement custom ball that I can comfortably track. It’d be cool if there was a way to strip down the tables so they were just plain wood (or whatever), or maybe fade out the artwork like a transparency layer in Photoshop.

F14 Tomcat- Still kind of new to me, but I feel like I shoot up left, up right, up left, the ball swoops around the rail and is ejected down left, down right. Wait for it to settle, shoot left, shoot right, etc. Zzzzz.

Tee’d Off/No Good Gophers: I’m unconvinced that they are not the same table. Sound(noise) irritation level is identical, and if you were to switch the backglass on me I wouldn’t know the difference. They’re okay once in a while but when I play one I’m done with both for a spell.

Victory- I’m not a big fan of most race car-themed games, pinball or otherwise, but I liked this one... at first. Once I got pretty good at it tho I have to agree with Kolchak and say it’s a bit repetitive.

Goin’ Nuts is great!

 

[kinggo]

Am I the only one who wouldn't put Goin' Nuts in top 5? To me it is way better than Safe Cracker and I wouldn't put that one in top 5 also.

For quite a long time Starship Troopers was by far the worst table for me. And then the R911 came and rescued SST from being the worst one.
HRC, HD3, CBW

 

[Anubis]

I should not have made this thread, lol.

I don't understand how anyone can put these tables on their list:

Red and Ted Road Show
Earthshaker
Star Trek TNG
Cirqus Voltair
Judge Dredd
Funhouse

All of thise tables are truly excellent all-around, IMO. They're also about as good as you could hope for in TPA, especially the Season 1 tables when compared to other S1 table implementations.

Granted, everyone is has their own taste, but there are far worse tables in TPA

These I can understand, but only because of the TPA implementation and not the IRL tables:
Black Knight
Bride of Pinbot
Scared Stiff
(And i'll add CftBL to that)

Every table in TPA would benefit from better physics. The vacuum lanes in Scared Stiff and Creature completely ruin those games for me. I still kinda like playing BoPB, though.

CV surprises me -- it is one of my faves, even though I have a bad habit of choking around Join the Circus time. But, everybody has their own taste in machines.

And, yes TPA does ruin BK, a table I like (and BK2K is a favorite)

Earthshaker, I must admit, can be a bit tedious. I can understand somebody picking it.

 

[vikingerik]

I think this topic calls for a poll

We've already got this data, over in the table ratings thread. Just look at the lowest 10 there and that's pretty much the consensus we see here. Maybe ask smbhax for the underlying data if you want to slice and dice it more.

 

[Gorgar]

I should not have made this thread, lol.

I don't understand how anyone can put these tables on their list:

Red and Ted Road Show
Earthshaker
Star Trek TNG
Cirqus Voltair
Judge Dredd
Funhouse

All of thise tables are truly excellent all-around, IMO. They're also about as good as you could hope for in TPA, especially the Season 1 tables when compared to other S1 table implementations.

Granted, everyone is has their own taste, but there are far worse tables in TPA

These I can understand, but only because of the TPA implementation and not the IRL tables:
Black Knight
Bride of Pinbot
Scared Stiff
(And i'll add CftBL to that)

Every table in TPA would benefit from better physics. The vacuum lanes in Scared Stiff and Creature completely ruin those games for me. I still kinda like playing BoPB, though.

I despise Judge Dredd. Seemingly no flow, games last forever on TPA version and the giant circular thing in the middle that doesn't do anything exciting. After getting all of the wizard goals, I never want to play it again.

I also put Road Show because I dislike the sound, but otherwise it is an okay table. I probably should have put something else like Funhouse (the TPA version is awful with ridiculously long games and railroads, but the real version is cool. I didn't want to put this because of nostalgia), Bride of Pinbot (same as Funhouse), and maybe a few more.

I never play Star Trek TNG, but I think it is a good table.

I personally love the older tables because they are simple and usually games don't last as long. I don't mind Goin Nuts (I enjoy it far more than the 5 I mentioned in my previous post) and I actually like El Dorado: City of Gold (But not as much as the original El Dorado.

 

[vikingerik]

That data is better. This thread, compared to that, has at least three problems going on. One is the obvious small sample size of ~10 data points compared to several hundred, so yes, those outliers are within the high expected variance.

Two is multiple endpoints. Several people here have a WMS DMD in the bottom five, but everybody has a different one. One isolated dislike doesn't push a table to the bottom 5 or 10 overall in aggregate.

Third is perception bias. There's a difference between tables that stick in your mind to call out as bad and tables you just ignore. Firepower and Genie are good examples of the latter, which don't come immediately to mind, but which in smbhax's format that makes you look over and remember and rate all the tables will indeed show up at the bottom.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

I've deliberately discounted BK, Firepower, and Gorgar because I know that these are all much better tables in real life than their TPA implementations. That's from relatively recent personal experience, not just hearsay - there are usually a couple of Firepowers at the shows I go to and I will make sure I get a game or two in on them, if they're in good condition.

Genie and Central Park get a bad rap from voters because they're hard, not necessarily because they're bad. The same probably goes for El Dorado and Fireball, though I bet Fireball gets a pass because - gasp - it has multiball!

 

[Tron]

El Dorado City of Gold
Genie
Goin Nuts
Big Shot
Central Park

I always ask myself why did they convert these when there were much better tables to pick from.

 

[Gorgar]

Question about the table rating thread: I noticed that it has a pretty large sample size (lots of votes). I know I have voted on it multiple times (every month adds another table, etc). So how does it sort through users that have voted more than once? Does it recognize users and change their ratings to the most current one or does it just add subsequent votes as a different vote every time? If it is the latter, that can be a huge discrepancy because there are probably people that vote every month, some people that only voted once, maybe someone votes every 6 months, etc.

 

[invitro]

Question about the table rating thread: I noticed that it has a pretty large sample size (lots of votes). I know I have voted on it multiple times (every month adds another table, etc). So how does it sort through users that have voted more than once? Does it recognize users and change their ratings to the most current one or does it just add subsequent votes as a different vote every time?

From http://smbhax.com/tpatr/?c=about:
"Your survey entries are stored both by this web site, according to your internet address, and in a browser cookie on your local device--so as long as you don't lose both your internet address and your cookies between sessions, when you return to the site your entries will still be available for editing"

On that page, @smbhax also gives a link to the TPA thread for the poll and encourages people to discuss there.

 

[invitro]

FWIW, here's a combined table of smbhax and this thread's results.

                 The Pinball Arcade table ratings (744 entries)
                 ——————————-------------------------------
                  1. 699 9.06 * Medieval Madness
                  2. 682 8.89 * Attack from Mars
                  3. 650 8.72 * Monster Bash
                  4. 656 8.60 * Theatre of Magic
                  5. 651 8.51 * The Twilight Zone
                  6. 250 8.42 * The Addams Family
             x    7. 636 8.24 * Star Trek: The Next Generation
                  8. 673 8.16 * Tales of the Arabian Nights
             x    9. 152 8.05 * Red & Ted's Road Show
             x   10. 623 8.03 * White Water
                 11.  12 7.92 * Indianapolis 500
                 12. 116 7.91 * The Getaway: High Speed II
                 12. 623 7.91 * Terminator 2: Judgment Day
                 14. 613 7.77 * No Good Gofers!
             x   15.  83 7.72 * Judge Dredd
                 16. 649 7.68 w Funhouse
                 17. 441 7.67 * Fish Tales
                 18. 321 7.63 * Bram Stoker's Dracula
                 18. 399 7.63 * WHO dunnit
                 20. 138 7.60 * Safe Cracker
                 20. 639 7.60 w Taxi
                 22. 641 7.52 * Cirqus Voltaire
                 23. 159 7.42 * Jack•Bot
             x   23. 639 7.42 * Scared Stiff
            xx   25. 388 7.40 * Junk Yard
                 26. 639 7.37 $ Ripley's Believe It or Not!
             x   27. 635 7.36 * Creature from the Black Lagoon
                 28.  92 7.34 * No Fear: Dangerous Sports
                 29. 599 7.24 w Whirlwind
                 30. 621 7.18 * Cactus Canyon
                 31.  34 7.15 $ Last Action Hero
             x   32.  73 7.12 * Hurricane
                 33. 311 7.03 w Diner
            xx   34. 431 7.02 * Black Rose
             x   35. 108 7.01 $ Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
             x   36. 217 7.00 w Earthshaker
                 37. 400 6.93 w High Speed
            xx   38. 335 6.88 $ High Roller Casino
             x   39. 640 6.86 w The Machine: Bride of Pin•Bot
             x   40. 111 6.83 w F-14 Tomcat
             x   41.  25 6.80 — TX-Sector
         xxxxx   42. 600 6.73 * The Champion Pub
                 43. 601 6.72 w Pin•Bot
             x   44. 619 6.64 — Centaur
                 45. 625 6.63 w Elvira and the Party Monsters
                 46. 408 6.50 * Black Knight 2000
            xx   46. 166 6.50 w Cyclone
             x   48. 217 6.47 * Party Zone
             x   49. 153 6.46 — Xenon
             x   50. 565 6.43 — Flight 2000
                 51. 607 6.40 w Space Shuttle
          xxxx   52. 568 6.37 % Tee'd Off
                 53.   7 6.29 % [Frank Thomas] Big Hurt
        xxxxxx   54. 199 6.17 $ Starship Troopers
             x   55. 633 6.15 @ Big Shot
          xxxx   56. 478 6.05 % Cue Ball Wizard
             x   57. 629 5.96 w Gorgar
      xxxxxxxx   58.  38 5.84 % Rescue 911
          xxxx   59. 260 5.83 — Phantom of the Opera
                 60. 648 5.74 — Black Hole
                 60.  77 5.74 @ Fireball
                 62. 579 5.72 w Firepower
           xxx   63. 513 5.70 — Class of 1812
                 64. 586 5.58 w Dr. Dude
         xxxxx   65. 610 5.46 $ Harley-Davidson Third Edition
          xxxx   66. 576 5.45 — Haunted House
                 67.  78 5.44 @ El Dorado
       xxxxxxx   68. 351 5.39 — Lights...Camera...Action!
          xxxx   69. 490 5.03 — Victory
             x   70. 612 4.77 — Genie
           xxx   71. 632 4.62 w Black Knight
           xxx   72. 590 4.06 @ Central Park
       xxxxxxx   73. 470 3.87 — El Dorado City of Gold
           xxx   74. 566 3.39 — Goin' Nuts

* WMS DMD (Williams or Bally)
w WMS or Williams SS AND/ND (includes post-merger Bally)
$ Data East/Sega/Stern DMD
% Premier DMD
^ Alvin G DMD
@ EM (Gottlieb, Bally)
- other SS AND/ND: Premier, Bally, Stern, Gottlieb, Data East

 

[Gorgar]

From http://smbhax.com/tpatr/?c=about:
"Your survey entries are stored both by this web site, according to your internet address, and in a browser cookie on your local device--so as long as you don't lose both your internet address and your cookies between sessions, when you return to the site your entries will still be available for editing"

On that page, @smbhax also gives a link to the TPA thread for the poll and encourages people to discuss there.

Cool. Thanks invitro.

 

[HotHamBoy]

White Water- Similar visual difficulties. Harshly lit, Can't find a good camera angle and I can’t find a replacement custom ball that I can comfortably track. It’d be cool if there was a way to strip down the tables so they were just plain wood (or whatever), or maybe fade out the artwork like a transparency layer in Photoshop.

Tee’d Off/No Good Gophers: I’m unconvinced that they are not the same table. Sound(noise) irritation level is identical, and if you were to switch the backglass on me I wouldn’t know the difference. They’re okay once in a while but when I play one I’m done with both for a spell.

Awww, I love Whitewater

I can't disagree enough about Tee'd Off vs NGG. NGG is just on another level and one of my favorite tables in TPA and IRL. I'll give you that the voices are annoying in both, but outside of the theme I think they are vastly different tables.

 

[soundwave106]

El Dorado City of Gold
Genie
Goin Nuts
Big Shot
Central Park
I always ask myself why did they convert these when there were much better tables to pick from.

All were part of the Gottlieb Hall of Fame, making the conversion a no brainer.

From what I recall, Central Park is actually a fairly representative example of 1960s Gottlieb pinball. Those games are just designed for insanely short balltimes and are more random in nature. I doubt a different example, like say a Buckaroo or King of Diamonds, would have gone over any better. We only need one of those as they play for a different time; most of the "EM" crowd is wanting the early to mid 70s ones.

In that realm, I've always liked TPA's Big Shot, and the ratings aren't bad for it. It's a decently popular Gottlieb EM, not a Spirit of 76 or Royal Flush, but it will do.

 

[Ben Logan]

Always encouraging to see video pinball fans being constructively critical about FS ball physics (vacuums to ramps and outlanes, etc.). To that end, this is a great thread. We need a truly "wild" ball.

I'd gladly throw some more money at FS if they'd hire a pinball afficiando / physics genius to vastly improve TPA ball physics.

 

[mdscales]

Always encouraging to see video pinball fans being constructively critical about FS ball physics (vacuums to ramps and outlanes, etc.). To that end, this is a great thread. We need a truly "wild" ball.

I'd gladly throw some more money at FS if they'd hire a pinball afficiando / physics genius to vastly improve TPA ball physics.

There are some tables that I find an excercise in frustration because the ball seemingly has no friction on the table. Specifically Haunted House lately has been driving me crazy, but also Black Hole and many others named above.

Aside from the physics that needs help I keep wondering if adding more and better mechanical sounds would help with perception of friction. I've noticed several VPX tables have a great ball rolling on surface sound that seems increase the perception of friction even when the ball is flying around.

 

[Zevious Zoquis]

...

Aside from the physics that needs help I keep wondering if adding more and better mechanical sounds would help with perception of friction. I've noticed several VPX tables have a great ball rolling on surface sound that seems increase the perception of friction even when the ball is flying around.

100% this! I had a chance to play a real Funhouse table a couple days back. I was struck once again (as this is something I've been aware of for ages) with how much of a clunky, noisy, mechanical thing a pinball table is! They are not smooth things at all. There's just tons of moving parts that all make noise and vibrations and what not. I enjoy TPA and other videogame sims of pinball, but man as good as they are, they just don't come close to a real table in so many ways. It seems to me that the sound FX could be a fairly easy thing to do better though - more mechanical and clattery and definitely more ball roll sound as it helps give a feeling of "solidity" and weight to the whole affair.

 

[invitro]

It seems to me that the sound FX could be a fairly easy thing to do better though - more mechanical and clattery and definitely more ball roll sound as it helps give a feeling of "solidity" and weight to the whole affair.

I have long felt that the following is an easy way to improve pinball sim sound: simply record more than one sample of each effect (flipper flip, ball falling in scoop, bumper, etc.), and choose a random one when it's time to play one. I think having, say, the ball-falling-in-scoop sound be exactly the same every time, hundreds of times per game, detracts from "immersiveness" (immersitivity?). I'm not saying this is the best solution, just a (probably?) very easy one.

 

[EccentricFlower]

Just for fun, rather than trying to figure out my subjective opinions, I decided to sort the tables by "goals achieved" and see what came up that way. Surely the tables I have the fewest goals achieved on are the ones I actually don't play, rather than the ones I think I don't play, right?

OP specifically excluded the table I have the fewest goals on - Goin' Nuts, with only one standard goal achieved. Then there are six with only two standard goals ...
TX Sector
Starship Troopers
ST:TNG
Genie
El Dorado (remake)
Black Knight

With the exception of TX Sector, which I think I kind of like but haven't gotten much traction on the goals yet, there's some justification in the others. I don't know WHY I don't care for ST:TNG or Starship Troopers, but I know I don't; if I play on randomize I wince when I get those. El Dorado the remake is probably the second worst table in the game after Goin' Nuts. (Why is the older version, with a nearly identical layout, more enjoyable?) And I don't care for Black Knight even though I know everyone else loves it because I hate its "throw the ball instantly back in your face when you're not ready for it" play style.

[Going by goals achieved doesn't seem to work in the other direction. Yeah, the table I have the most goals on - No Good Gofers, the only table where I have all standard and wizard goals achieved - probably IS the table I've played the most and one of my favorites, but some of my other favorites aren't up there just because I either have trouble with the goals or haven't bothered working for them. My next two tables in terms of goals achieved are Xenon and Central Park (all but one wizard goal for either) and while I rather like Xenon, Central Park does nothing for me - it's just that you can get in a mode where you get enough extra balls to play forever without much struggle.]