Your evaluation of Zen Williams Pinball year 1

[HighFive]

Ok, board a bit dead lately, no new tables to talk about, and we can pretty much guess that with the release of SW Pinball on Switch, we have seen what we need to see for Williams table from Zen, for their first year, so how about we start a cool subject. You evaluation of Zen Williams pinball year one. I will start with mine:

The Good:

Tables : 13 tables in total, all DMD. We got great tables. Fish Tales, Attack From Mars, White Water, Medieval Madness, The Gateway, Theater of Magic, Champion Pub, Road Show, Black Rose, Junkyard, Safecracker, Hurricane, Party Zone. Tons of top 50 tables here, for everyones taste. Zen effort made me enjoy Fish Tales, White Water, Hurricane and Party Zone, which were tables i was having difficulty to like in TPA. It made me enjoy a bit better mostly all other tables better than TPA.

Physics : A real surprise, i find even the Zen engine fitting pretty well with the Williams tables. Its fun. And i have to word to describe how the real physics of the balls, flippers, are just amazing. Feel very close to the real thing. Its just a better engine for these fast playing games.

Visual : Lightning and models are amazing, its a generation ahead of TPA. The full cab view, when playing in portrait mode, is just amazing.

Online feature: I mean, you can setup tournament as you want, its just amazing. This is a big plus.

The less Good:

Tables : I cannot compare on how quick were TPA to release in their first year ( perhaps hard to compare since tons of tables were in Pinball Hall of Fame on older gen ), but after getting the license from Farsight, i might expected like maybe one more pack ? Perfectly understanding they want to show more visual with the DMD, but really hope well see a few packs of non-DMD tables. Guessing the one with animated text will make a showing at first, but it will be a good start. And can we just say that since Big Buck Hunter and Whoa Nellie release like a year ago, we havent seen any new digitalized tables. I wish the next packs release could include 2 seen tables, and 1 never done table.

Physics: Im just wishing inside that they made the single player mode with the Zen power a power nudge power like that could give you powerful like nudge like in TPA. I just love the nudging in TPA and its what i feel that is missing from Zen, their nudging is the same for their more realistic physics than the old one. Not a must, but would be a plus i would welcome. A bit worried a bit too that these physics would work for some slower-pace game, but we havent seen it that way.

Visual: More lightning adjustment! Perhaps a camera editor?

Things id love to see:

- Mod your pinball! Change lights color, ramps color? hell, why not buy some toy to add them to make it look different and unique. Could see some fun having an editor to mod it!


Overall, im giving Zen for their first year, a 7 out of 10. No new tables, even with the new physics, make me go back sometime to TPA playing some tables not on Zen yet, even some i didnt enjoy i decided to start playing ( god, i finally love Fathom, it took time lol ). New unseen table is what i hope more we will see. And a better schedule release date. There will be 4 months since a pack, its a long wait. Could that Disney deal could involve something good? Lets hope we havent just wait 4 months for having Zen simply release SW Pinball on Switch. Overall i really enjoy playing them on my Switch, bought them on PS4 for the better visual, but finally end up not playing them at all on my PS4. Cant wait to see year two!

 

[Cloda]

Zen pretty much sold their soul to the devil with the Star Wars release on Switch. Sorry, me just being facetious due to my frustration of that being a non-event in my life as a not Switch owner and keen for some more Williams tables ;-). I'll also be happy for new originals, but unfortunately my expectations are such now, that I will not be happy if it doesn't come with Deep / Classic Arcade physics. I just don't have the patience anymore to play for hours on one go at a table to put up a big score.

I never played TPA, so this just blew my mind. I'm having more fun than ever with Pinball FX3 and have barely touched anything in the game other than Williams tables in Classic Arcade. There are lots of things that I can suggest to Zen to improve the game, but the core is solid and so much fun. I dearly hope that they are not going to start doing too many solid state tables, rather give that to another developer such as Magic Pixel.

My main requests would be;

- scores in tournaments count towards the leaderboard if it is set up as a regulation game.
- ability to adjust the cameras (including action cameras) to my liking and to remember that for each table.
- a tutorial mode / skills challenge where they teach you new skills and where you can practice it.
- along with that, the ability to place the ball on the table so that you can practice certain shots. I would be much better with live catch / drop catch etc. if I had the opportunity to practice it and get the timing down.
- indication what physics mode the achievement for a table was (I like to feel proud and show off if I got a difficult one like Medieval Madness in Classic Arcade ;-) ).
- A few more difficult achievements similar to beating Ultimo or Loki in Pinball FX2. It is a completely different challenge to i.e. defeating Crazy Bob in Junk Yard compared to just starting Outer Space or defeating the King of Pain compared to just starting the wizard mode in Medieval Madness.

Anyway... for me it was a brilliant first year that completely reinvigorated my love for pinball and encouraged me to buy an Xbox One and start my own Youtube Channel.

 

[tomwaits]

I'm still turned off by the censorship on PS4... and not a single table that wasn't in TPA... and no licensed tables yet. With Zen focused on Williams remakes, they haven't released any original tables for over a year either (Solo pinball pack was released one year ago this week). Disappointing.

 

[shutyertrap]

I'm loving year one.

I questioned how much fun I'd actually have playing tables I'd already been playing to death in TPA, and then I played the Classic Physics and just got a grin going from ear to ear. As a beta tester, I get plenty of time to actually test tables and make suggestions that have time to be put into the game prior to release. The Williams tables have also completely turned me off from their counterparts in TPA, and by and large from opening the game at all. Most importantly, my muscle memory from playing in FX3 doesn't screw anything up when playing a real machine, something that also can't be said for TPA.

I do wish there was a dark room setting in Zen, as certain tables like AFM lose a bit of their magic as is. That being said, I'd still probably play 80% of the time with the current lighting, and it is so much better than what TPA has in that their are no overexposed lamps, the light blooms in three dimensional space rather than a flat plane, and the contrast really make the tables come alive.

Also, though it isn't year one yet on the mobile app, it does have all the same tables and Zen has really made some quality improvements to the app experience. The tables themselves play amazingly well for a mobile game, to the point I find myself spending quite a lot of time on it when my computer is not available to me.

 

[shutyertrap]

I cannot compare on how quick were TPA to release in their first year ( perhaps hard to compare since tons of tables were in Pinball Hall of Fame on older gen ), but after getting the license from Farsight, i might expected like maybe one more pack ? Perfectly understanding they want to show more visual with the DMD, but really hope well see a few packs of non-DMD tables. Guessing the one with animated text will make a showing at first, but it will be a good start. And can we just say that since Big Buck Hunter and Whoa Nellie release like a year ago, we havent seen any new digitalized tables. I wish the next packs release could include 2 seen tables, and 1 never done table.

FarSight released the initial 4 pack of tables, TotAN, Black Hole, Ripleys, and ToM. I believe it was 2 months later that the first DLC landed, the 2 pack of Medieval Madness and Bride of Pinbot if I'm not mistaken. Thereafter it was 2 tables a month (with a week or 2 buffer) for the next 8 months I think? They were cranking so hard, Zen actually tried getting in on the action but FarSight rebuked them! Silly mistake in hindsight.

We'll get to the non DMD stuff soon, as other than licensed tables there are only 6 more DMD machines to do.

 

[Scared Stiff]

I share most of the views said so far. I think it was good. But their communication which I had thought was excellent in the beginning, is just awful now. And the extraordinary length of time between releases isn’t good either. If fact it really bugs me and is my biggest complaint. But the combo of no release AND no communication is even worse.

And I will be blunt: it is completely unacceptable.

It’s not hard to tell people what you are doing and set expectations accordingly. Instead they left us all hanging on the question of if they would release something before October or not. Gusss the answer turned out to be no. But they could have told us that months ago.

And then after October what is the path forward? Why the mystery? It’s not like they have a competitor out there releasing Williams and Bally tables. I just want to know what their plans are here so I can also plan and have something to look forward too.

Again, this stuff shouldn’t be this hard.

 

[zmcvay]

We'll get to the non DMD stuff soon, as other than licensed tables there are only 6 more DMD machines to do.

Has there been confirmation from the Zen guys about that? Farsight always mixed in non-DMD tables between DMD releases because DMD was where the larger demand was. It would be nice, but I don't know that I'm confident Zen will do alphanumeric or EM only packs unless they do a full remake version w/DMD alongside it.

I think it's just as likely they will announce a Stern partnership about the time the easy to do tables from Williams/Bally run dry, or go with the 1 licenced table mixed in with 1-2 Zen originals with the same licence route. Any way they go, I'm along for the ride, disappointed as I am that it's been a full year now without a previously unreleased table from either Zen or Farsight, I am enjoying all four Williams/Bally packs so far. It's nice to see that there was a market for updated digital versions of the Williams tables, and yes, they are a big improvement. Eager to see what the future brings no matter which way they go.

Replying to Scared Stiff: I understand the frustration on the lack of updates, but that's always been Zen. From my recollection they don't generally make announcements until things are less than a month from release, the Star Wars switch announcement was a big exception to the rule. While I get anxious awaiting news as well, plans are in flux, they probably only have a vague idea when things will release and when plans change they are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation where fans take "Here's what we're working on and when we are hoping to release" as written in stone. How much anger has there been directed at Farsight on the forums because things they were working on hit the back burner for months or years or got shelved entirely. I'd like more info as well, but I respect the decision to keep their cards close to the vest.

 

[francis247uk]

Good post Scared Stiff, my sentiments exactly.

 

[Citizen]

I also don't like the current wait and lack of communication and dislike seeing Williams put on the back burner for a port of old originals I largely don't care about, but at the same time I try keeping in mind that many people do care about them, many Switch pinball fans have been waiting for Zen SW (and Marvel), and I understand that you don't just pass on SW/Disney, period. So I tolerate it and hope it bears IJ fruit. Plus, people who only like the originals have been waiting even longer. This has been a hard period for all Zen fans to get through but I hope this is a one time thing. Hopefully if they ever manage to port Marvel as well they'll be able to handle it better for fans.

I also still don't like what I see from mobile and don't plan on touching it with a 39 and a half foot pole, but I'm also not big on mobile pinball anyway, so I can't really pretend to care all that much.

The ongoing censorship on consoles does suck but whatever, it is what it is. It certainly isn't enough to make me want to go back to TPA moon physics.

For the quality of the tables and gameplay (especially the physics) and the game in general (PC and console versions) I'd probably give this first year an 8/10.

For an overall score for Zen this first year factoring in the above score with things like the erratic schedule, I'd probably bump them down to 7/10.

 

[HighFive]

FarSight released the initial 4 pack of tables, TotAN, Black Hole, Ripleys, and ToM. I believe it was 2 months later that the first DLC landed, the 2 pack of Medieval Madness and Bride of Pinbot if I'm not mistaken. Thereafter it was 2 tables a month (with a week or 2 buffer) for the next 8 months I think? They were cranking so hard, Zen actually tried getting in on the action but FarSight rebuked them! Silly mistake in hindsight.

We'll get to the non DMD stuff soon, as other than licensed tables there are only 6 more DMD machines to do.

Wow. Didnt remember Farsight were that quick to release tables when they started!

 

[shutyertrap]

Well don’t hold me to it, as I’m a bit fuzzy on the timeline. I know it came out on iOS in December or January, then hit PS3 in February. I believe I joined this forum in March, and I think it was then April when that first DLC hit. Need one of the other old guard to jump in and confirm.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

February was the first TPA release, on mobile. Consoles were next, in March.

 

[TFHFony]

Happy: physics, visuals, sound & playability
Sad: Censorship on PS4, lack of new releases, lack of communication (but ZEN has always lacked in that department.)

 

[Firefox2000]

Only issue i have is with the censorship on the tables.

 

[Robert Misner]

Zens done fantastic work updating their physics for a more simulation experience, specially the last pack with the flipper deflection etc.
As well I absolutely love the updated toys and features on the table while playing with real world physics..its the best of both worlds.

That said I've bought every zen pinball from xbox arcade, xbox360, windows 8 store, steam and they have never gone back and really fixed anything that wasn't a game stopping bug..they just don't do it , its considered a complete product and they make changes going forward not back, so i have little hope they'll ever go back to the first 3 packs and re balance and implement the updated flipper physics etc.

As well the portrait camera 8 is awful in its wasted space and inconsistent from one table to the next. most tables have inches of dead space at the top or bottom or for example on Attack from Mars the angle is so bad the flippers are half hidden by the metal trim.
I've resorted to playing in a window and stretching staggering my dual monitor setup so i can stretch the screen beyond one monitor to fit better.but you have to adjust for each table.
Again Zen has NEVER adjusted any of the tables bad cameras to fix ...so i don't' think they will now.

But they keep making them I'll keep buying them

I think its probably due to the way the team is tasked..once its live the resources assigned to post shipped tables is so low realistically nothing changes.

 

[rehtroboi40]

Overall, Zen has done a very commendable job giving the DMD-WMS tables the overhaul they've needed. All of the tables look great. Sounds are hit-and-miss (the latter definitely includes White Water) but at least BR finally has the full theme intact. The gameplay is a little more realistic and ramp spamming is significantly reduced-but I'd like to hit the occasional ramp in RS-they've never been that difficult to hit IRL.

My biggest gripe is that there is no way to increase DMD size. Even Freakin' FX2 had that option.

I can understand that some folks have beef with the lack of originals since the Williams license. I like them too-and Zen has made some great ones. But Zen has entered new territory. They are best known for creating fun original digital pinball games and those that make dignified use of licenses. Now they're trying to re-create classic pinball games that many players have fond memories of.
Even the biggest game companies would have a tough time with this kind of balancing act.

 

[trash80]

Zen has done a great job with the Bally/Williams license. Everyone should also keep in mind when critiquing the Zen release schedule, communications, and other business related things; They have over 100 employees and have been releasing 'NOT PINBALL' games since 2009. In fact, 'NOT PINBALL' is allowing for some very lucrative partnerships and could be argued is out performing pinball from both a revenue and growth perspective.

It will be an interesting Year 2.

 

[PHJ]

Zen has in general done a very good job.
I miss the backglasses though. -Like the Huricane backglass with the wonderful mecanical Mystery Wheel!!!

 

[shutyertrap]

Zen has in general done a very good job.
I miss the backglasses though. -Like the Cyclone backglass with the wonderful mecanical Mystery Wheel!!!

You do know that at anytime you can flick up the right joystick and see the backglass, right?

 

[PHJ]

I play on Steam, with one monitor and keyboard. How do i watch when the mecanical weel turns on the backglass in Hurricane (when you hit the "mystery sign)?