Your reaction if the new Pinball FX reboot requires a subscription on PC / console

joeblow

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Feb 26, 2013
131
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In the the first episode of The Pinball Show on Youtube, Zen Studios mentions that the next gen reboot of Pinball FX will have "new business models". That's wide open for speculation until we have specific details, but what if they require some type of subscription service to access tables on PC / consoles as they are released? Choose a poll option to so we can see the interest for that type of approach here in the forums.
 

Rayder

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Mar 21, 2014
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"New business model" most likely means there won't be any free upgrades for owners of the previous version, like there was last time. Buy it all over again.....at inflated prices.
 

1adam12

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Nov 28, 2017
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Thanks to so many people buying in to that business model EVERYWHERE, it's becoming increasingly pervasive. The number of apps I've deleted because they want a monthly subscription instead of an outright purchase is always climbing.
I don't see how that model is viable for Pinball FX, but some people will buy in.

Sent from my motorola one fusion+ using Tapatalk
 

shogun00

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Dec 25, 2012
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"New business model" most likely means there won't be any free upgrades for owners of the previous version, like there was last time. Buy it all over again.....at inflated prices.
That's what I've thinking too. Considering that versions of Pinball FX3 on PS4 and Xbox One are compatible with the PS5 and Xbox Series X/S counterparts. It gives Zen very little reason to offer free upgrades to the new platform this time around.
 

trash80

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Dec 14, 2018
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If we are talking only about consoles and PC, there will probably be exclusive DLC access via the platform specific game pass subscription. I'd also expect some type of season pass DLC model as well.

If Zen actually implements the WMS physics onto the specific original tables they bring over to FX 4, these will certainly require a new purchase for the updated tables. But how do they justify a re-purchase of basically the same Williams tables? Will new graphics and enhanced tournament options be enough to garner a complete re-purchase? Probably not, and this is where a subscription model may make the re-purchasing argument moot.

I do wonder though, will Zen be pursuing platform specific IP again as they had back in the FX2 and earlier days, or will FX 4 remain a mostly platform agnostic system?
 

joeblow

Member
Feb 26, 2013
131
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If we are talking only about consoles and PC, there will probably be exclusive DLC access via the platform specific game pass subscription. I'd also expect some type of season pass DLC model as well.

If Zen actually implements the WMS physics onto the specific original tables they bring over to FX 4, these will certainly require a new purchase for the updated tables. But how do they justify a re-purchase of basically the same Williams tables? Will new graphics and enhanced tournament options be enough to garner a complete re-purchase? Probably not, and this is where a subscription model may make the re-purchasing argument moot.

I do wonder though, will Zen be pursuing platform specific IP again as they had back in the FX2 and earlier days, or will FX 4 remain a mostly platform agnostic system?

I think they may make a login system where you have access to a single PFX profile across multiple platforms, but its a feature that may cost a subscription service (among other things they offer).

As far as how they may require us to pay for the remastered Williams tables, my guess is that they will offer every table in VR, and 4K at 120 fps (maybe even 8K at 60fps). They'll hype up HDR lighting/reflections for sure, and if they have a deal with Sony, they'll also hype up haptic feedback on the PS5 along with adaptive triggers for the plunger, Tempest 3D audio, and maybe gyro controlled nudging (i.e., hold the circle button and shake the controller any direction for a nudge).

I'd be all for those enhancements as a PS5 owner, and would be extremely pleased if every tables were guaranteed to have a VR option for PSVR2 down the line. The only way Zen Studios could kill my interest is if I was forced to subscribe to play the tables. If meant me having to pay for FX3 tables over again with no free upgrade, I'd bite the bullet and do so.
 
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trash80

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Dec 14, 2018
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I think they may make a login system where you have access to a single PFX profile across multiple platforms, but its a feature that may cost a subscription service (among other things they offer).

As far as how they may require us to pay for the remastered Williams tables, my guess is that they will offer every table in VR, and 4K at 120 fps (maybe even 8K at 60fps). They'll hype up HDR lighting/reflections for sure, and if they have a deal with Sony, they'll also hype up haptic feedback on the PS5 along with adaptive triggers for the plunger, Tempest 3D audio, and maybe gyro controlled nudging (i.e., hold the circle button and shake the controller any direction for a nudge).

I'd be all for those enhancements as a PS5 owner, and would be extremely pleased if every tables were guaranteed to have a VR option for PSVR2 down the line. The only way Zen Studios could kill my interest is if I was forced to subscribe to play the tables. If meant me having to pay for FX3 tables over again with no free upgrade, I'd bite the bullet and do so.

If you mean a single profile that shares DLC ownership/access, well you can't do that with a single login that spans multiple ecosystems. The various digital rights (console, game storefronts) platforms do not allow credential sharing between systems outside of their own. Also, different IP licenses require specific concessions on each platform.

I'd love to see Zen embrace specific console tech, but it probably makes more sense for them to continue with the the one-size-fits-all development process they already have in place.
 

joeblow

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Feb 26, 2013
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If you mean a single profile that shares DLC ownership/access, well you can't do that with a single login that spans multiple ecosystems. The various digital rights (console, game storefronts) platforms do not allow credential sharing between systems outside of their own. Also, different IP licenses require specific concessions on each platform.

I'd love to see Zen embrace specific console tech, but it probably makes more sense for them to continue with the the one-size-fits-all development process they already have in place.

I was thinking more along the lines of, no matter what platforms a player owns for the new PFX, that person will have one profile on Zen Studios' servers that captures all of their progress and high scores regardless of how many times the platforms are switched around.

Let's say my high score for Bride of Pinbot is 3.74 billion points on the PS5. If I own the game on the PC and fire it up, Zen Studios will grab my high score from the cloud and upload it to the PC. If I get up to 4.12 billion points there and launch the game on an XBox Series S, the new high score will be uploaded to that platform as well. This would hold true for in-game achievements, etc, and maybe even table settings.
 

trash80

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Dec 14, 2018
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I was thinking more along the lines of, no matter what platforms a player owns for the new PFX, that person will have one profile on Zen Studios' servers that captures all of their progress and high scores regardless of how many times the platforms are switched around.

Let's say my high score for Bride of Pinbot is 3.74 billion points on the PS5. If I own the game on the PC and fire it up, Zen Studios will grab my high score from the cloud and upload it to the PC. If I get up to 4.12 billion points there and launch the game on an XBox Series S, the new high score will be uploaded to that platform as well. This would hold true for in-game achievements, etc, and maybe even table settings.

Various ecosystem leaderboards and achievements are not something that is shared like that. I suppose there could be be some sort of hub or portal where Zen may aggregate your multiple console accounts into a single user history, but then for what purpose when all the bragging rights are really attached to your Steam ID, Xbox Gamer #, etc.

Would you really want your PC high score to overpopulate your Mobile Phone or Switch high score?
 

joeblow

Member
Feb 26, 2013
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For some people, they very much would like their scores to follow them everywhere they go.

It would be more of "my Fish Tales high score is XXXX" on PFX regardless of where it was achieved as opposed to "my Fish Tales high score is XXX on the PS5, and it is YYYY on the PC, and it is ZZZZ on the XSS", even though all three platforms is the exact same game with the exact same physics.
 

trash80

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Dec 14, 2018
471
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For some people, they very much would like their scores to follow them everywhere they go.

It would be more of "my Fish Tales high score is XXXX" on PFX regardless of where it was achieved as opposed to "my Fish Tales high score is XXX on the PS5, and it is YYYY on the PC, and it is ZZZZ on the XSS", even though all three platforms is the exact same game with the exact same physics.

Except they aren't. Each version is a separate development fork and each have their own unique features and bugs. We could also go down the rabbit hole of frame rates, response time, frame buffering, input lag, bluetooth, etc., that is different on each platform if you like. If you think about, while each of the three platforms you mention should for all practical purposes be pretty much the same, it is like having a Fish Tales high score on the table in Joe Blow's garage and saying that it is identical to the high score over on the Fish Tales table in trash80's basement.
 

trash80

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Dec 14, 2018
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Zen may be using Unreal Engine for the next Pinball FX NEW (4) game. If this is the case, I suppose there could be some platform agnostic events and things, but I guess we will have to wait and see.
 

joeblow

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Feb 26, 2013
131
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Except they aren't. Each version is a separate development fork and each have their own unique features and bugs. We could also go down the rabbit hole of frame rates, response time, frame buffering, input lag, bluetooth, etc., that is different on each platform if you like. If you think about, while each of the three platforms you mention should for all practical purposes be pretty much the same, it is like having a Fish Tales high score on the table in Joe Blow's garage and saying that it is identical to the high score over on the Fish Tales table in trash80's basement.

None of that matters to the vast amount of people who would simply love to have their scores under a single Zen Studios-stored profile carry over to different platforms.

Back in the arcade era, me and my buddies used to play releases in the Tekken franchise (a 1v1 fighting game) and for a few of the sequels, the arcade machine had card readers hooked up to them. Our Tekken cards stored our wins and losses per character, ranking, earned costumes, and more. We absolutely loved it, and couldn't care less about any of the issues you raised as we traveled from arcade to arcade with our profile cards in hand.

It will not be an issue if Zen Studios allowed a single profile for all platforms to most people if it is free. If they have to pay for it, that's another story.
 

Firefox2000

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Apr 18, 2013
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The subscription they might be taking about could be the one on consoles that is required to play online, so if this new PB has online gameplay then you will need a xbox gold or PSplus subscription to play the online features of the game, so that might be what they mean.
 

00100100

New member
Jul 6, 2017
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I hate subscrition systems, because I tend to pay for them, and reccognize after a while: I did not use it for three months (or longer). The list for it is long...
And I do not want just to add another one now.
That's why I personally would prefer something like a season pass with a clearly defined content, i.e. you'll receive 10 new tables, access to features like new modes.
Or a micro Season pass, which nowadays is called DLC: You receive 2-3 tables for it
Or subscriptions for battle royal mode for 1,3,6,12 months. Or VR Mode.
That would be fine for me, and I would follow this way.
It also would give ZEN the possibility to recognize which areas of development will pay out for them and what the customer wants.Is it worth to invest in servers for the battle royal mode, or should they save the money for the regular tournament/online servers?

Unfortunatly there is just an announcement - something new is coming. Soon. Opening the gates for wild guesses and assumptions. Some more information about ZENs roadmap would make it easier...
 
Mar 9, 2012
230
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None of that matters to the vast amount of people who would simply love to have their scores under a single Zen Studios-stored profile carry over to different platforms.

Back in the arcade era, me and my buddies used to play releases in the Tekken franchise (a 1v1 fighting game) and for a few of the sequels, the arcade machine had card readers hooked up to them. Our Tekken cards stored our wins and losses per character, ranking, earned costumes, and more. We absolutely loved it, and couldn't care less about any of the issues you raised as we traveled from arcade to arcade with our profile cards in hand.

It will not be an issue if Zen Studios allowed a single profile for all platforms to most people if it is free. If they have to pay for it, that's another story.

Not Happening.. just like card readers in the arcades never took off.. waste of time
 

Rayder

Member
Mar 21, 2014
425
0
They do some weird subscription/token thing with it, I just won't bother. Just sell me the tables to play.
 

joeblow

Member
Feb 26, 2013
131
0
Not Happening.. just like card readers in the arcades never took off.. waste of time
Lol, in case you hadn't noticed, the same results of saving and porting profiles / scores can be achieved through cloud storage on Zen Studios' servers. Card readers are no longer needed to do this. If ZS offered a subscription model that included this perk, some people might bite (not me... I don't like subscriptions).
 
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