Zen Pinball FX3 Williams Pinball Volume One

[dmil666]

Fish Tales has Lightning flippers does it not? I mean the physical machine...not sure if the Zen table does (and/or if the Zen physics have the same flippers as Arcade/Tourney).

I had to google lightning flippers, as I had never heard of the term, and from the short read, it sounds like installing the shorter lightning flippers on tables not designed for them screws up the play geometry on those tables, which sounds logical, and not something that you'd really want.
From what I read, Fish Tales was the only machine designed specifically to use them.
https://www.aussiearcade.com/archive/index.php/t-13711.html

 

[shutyertrap]

Fish Tales has Lightning flippers does it not? I mean the physical machine...not sure if the Zen table does (and/or if the Zen physics have the same flippers as Arcade/Tourney).

Zen for sure has lightning flippers on FT, I asked during the beta. I even double checked that they did the correct length and didn’t just use a graphic, and they confirmed

 

[bavelb]

Zen for sure has lightning flippers on FT, I asked during the beta. I even double checked that they did the correct length and didn’t just use a graphic, and they confirmed

Yea I figured, Zen even mentions the shorter flippers in the discription pregame. Plus a nudge pass is almost impossible compared to some of the others.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Can confirm some of the Pinburgh games used Lightning Flippers. Even when I missed out on Pinburgh, I went to play for a few hours anyway.

Surf N Safari had them. Gorgar. Party Zone had them the last year I went.

 

[Kolchak357]

Can confirm some of the Pinburgh games used Lightning Flippers. Even when I missed out on Pinburgh, I went to play for a few hours anyway.

Surf N Safari had them. Gorgar. Party Zone had them the last year I went.

Gorgar must be pretty nasty with lightning flippers. Yikes!

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Gorgar must be pretty nasty with lightning flippers. Yikes!

I highly disagree actually. Think I had more outlanes than centers. The Snake Pit can actually have a nasty feed STDM though.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Dracula also has Lightning flippers, but was originally designed for regular flippers. The European distributors (the Germans, specifically, I think) requested Lightning flippers to make the game harder, so WMS complied. Because Dracula obviously isn't hard enough to start with.

 

[bavelb]

I hope if BSD makes it into Zen, it gets normal flippers.

 

[Kolchak357]

I highly disagree actually. Think I had more outlanes than centers. The Snake Pit can actually have a nasty feed STDM though.

I'm surprised it didn't make it much tougher. Hmm, guess you never know til you try it. Very interesting.

 

[Citizen]

I hope if BSD makes it into Zen, it gets normal flippers.

I don't, because it wouldn't be authentic. It doesn't matter what it was designed with, it was shipped with lightnings. That's the reality of what an original BSD is.

And frankly it's a great game just the way it is.

 

[Kaoru]

Hrmmm.

The overwhelming positivity here boggles my mind a bit. The more I spend time with this pack, the less I'm happy with it. No matter how much power there is behind your shot - the ball barely gets halfway up the ramp in 9 out of 10 cases. Are the tables set up in a 90 degree angle or something? Then at times the ball gets superfast as if somebody is pressing a fast forward button. At other times it gets painfully sluggish, as if you're ditiching around an orb with the weight of the sun or something.

Fish Tales has always been a bit on the drainy side, which was fair enough. But in Zen suddenly almost every target has turned into a death trap, or at least that's what it feels like. The right orbit is Death Incarnate in particular. It dispatches the balls with amazing efficiency right into the center it's ridiculous. Sure, this is what nudging is for, but some shaking around on the screen excluded I never notice any effect on the ball's course. Or it's so marginal that it doesn't matter much.

Sure, the graphics are nice and everything. So are the challenges and tournaments. Something which TPA failed deliver to this single day after so many years. But I don't know. I have fairly lukewarm feelings towards what we got here. I find playing this rather frustrating and annoying instead of fun.

 

[xAzatothx]

Just like real life pinball ��

If you want easier - use the classic mode.

 

[Spork98765]

On the PC I've played challenges where the ball launch after saves is extremely wimpy - almost launches just hard enough to go straight down the drain, but not quite (I'm thinking of HS2 in particular). I've encountered this on the tables you mentioned and several of the regular Zen tables. I don't know if it's a bug or not, but it sure as hell is annoying.

From the beta testing thread on Steam, Deep said the auto-plunge on Challenge modes was purposefully weak so that player cannot exploit certain elements.

 

[dmil666]

From the beta testing thread on Steam, Deep said the auto-plunge on Challenge modes was purposefully weak so that player cannot exploit certain elements.

Yeah, I got that, and it's a really good idea - it shouldn't be easy to "cheat". In fact, I've noticed that the soft ball launches seem to be a little random in power from game to game so that the ball doesn't launch the same way every game, which is another good thing.
One problem, however, with the random launch power level is that sometimes you get launches that come down, hit an obstacle and roll onto a slingshot which then fires it down an outlane like a bullet, every time on a game, unless you manage to get the nudge figured out pretty damn quickly. The next time you play a game on the same table, the launch power is different and you don't get an auto-drain.
I've had this happen on HS2 and V12, and it both amused and annoyed me.

 

[crazyflipperfingers]

The overwhelming positivity here boggles my mind a bit. The more I spend time with this pack, the less I'm happy with it. Are the tables set up in a 90 degree angle or something?

I feel you man. Before the official release, when I saw the "flipper tricks" video Zen put up on YouTube, I was psyched through the roof for their Williams releases. But the more I play, the less I'm happy with it. I agree with you that the games seem set up at an extreme angle. I've been getting used to that though. Worse than the speed for me personally is the unrealistic aiming and lack of "backhand" physics. I always try to play with a "control" style and not being able to make shots (the problem is mainly from straight up the playfield to a full backhand) from a cradle is maddening. And going back to the "flipper tricks", they're definitely possible to pull off, but it's too difficult. I have yet to do a drop catch. And in real life I can execute a live catch maybe a third of the time but on Zen it's maybe 1 out of 50 or so. I actually like Farsight's version of the live catch better. Yeah, when it happens it's a full dead-stop instead of somewhere close, but at least it happens when I expect it to. Also, the tip passes never seem to "catch" the ball. I mean, the flipper only moves a fraction, but it usually doesn't impact the ball and it still ends up rolling off the end of the flipper into the drain. Cradle separations are way better than Farsight, but have similar issues to tip passes.

All of those critiques are mainly for Fish Tales since that's what I've been playing the most but recently I tried Medieval Madness and Junkyard and those seem even worse. The main issues are still around aiming, backhands, and flipper tricks. They just don't feel right. And I've never played a Junkyard where you can't hold both flippers up on the plunge and have the ball transfer from left to right. I learned that trick on Keith Elwin's "Pinball 101" video and have always used it IRL, and even on Farsight's version. But on Zen, the ball is going to hit the tip of the right flipper and go down the drain if you try it.

Sure, the graphics are nice and everything. So are the challenges and tournaments. Something which TPA failed deliver to this single day after so many years. But I don't know. I have fairly lukewarm feelings towards what we got here. I find playing this rather frustrating and annoying instead of fun.

Yep, graphics and everything else presentation-wise are fantastic. Added features are fantastic. No complaints there. But the gameplay isn't on point IMO.

 

[Pinballfan69]

I feel you man. Before the official release, when I saw the "flipper tricks" video Zen put up on YouTube, I was psyched through the roof for their Williams releases. But the more I play, the less I'm happy with it. I agree with you that the games seem set up at an extreme angle. I've been getting used to that though. Worse than the speed for me personally is the unrealistic aiming and lack of "backhand" physics. I always try to play with a "control" style and not being able to make shots (the problem is mainly from straight up the playfield to a full backhand) from a cradle is maddening. And going back to the "flipper tricks", they're definitely possible to pull off, but it's too difficult. I have yet to do a drop catch. And in real life I can execute a live catch maybe a third of the time but on Zen it's maybe 1 out of 50 or so. I actually like Farsight's version of the live catch better. Yeah, when it happens it's a full dead-stop instead of somewhere close, but at least it happens when I expect it to. Also, the tip passes never seem to "catch" the ball. I mean, the flipper only moves a fraction, but it usually doesn't impact the ball and it still ends up rolling off the end of the flipper into the drain. Cradle separations are way better than Farsight, but have similar issues to tip passes.

All of those critiques are mainly for Fish Tales since that's what I've been playing the most but recently I tried Medieval Madness and Junkyard and those seem even worse. The main issues are still around aiming, backhands, and flipper tricks. They just don't feel right. And I've never played a Junkyard where you can't hold both flippers up on the plunge and have the ball transfer from left to right. I learned that trick on Keith Elwin's "Pinball 101" video and have always used it IRL, and even on Farsight's version. But on Zen, the ball is going to hit the tip of the right flipper and go down the drain if you try it.



Yep, graphics and everything else presentation-wise are fantastic. Added features are fantastic. No complaints there. But the gameplay isn't on point IMO.

Interesting. I can't say I agree with the slant of the table though. I'm not sure if all the techniques described in that video about the flipper physics are fully implimented. Perhaps something they are still tweaking. It's much better than TPA though. I like that fact the tables are harder than it's TPA counter parts. MM is kicking my arse. I was trying to get the achievement getting to King of Payne. It's as tough as the real table IMO.

I'm 15th on FT with 776m (appr)
perhaps I'm 26th on HS2 since release but haven't had a chance to play because I've been so busy. Work doesn't seem to relent this coming week.

Looking for Volume 2 any other tweaks coming in the future.

 

[PabloUK]

Hi All

This might have been asked before but does anyone know if there is a way to launch Tournament mode classic tables direct from Pinball X front end?

TIA

 

[yespage]

Gave in and got Volume One. MM the ball seems awfully heavy. In general, the table seems to react closer to real life, but the ball seems very heavy.

 

[shutyertrap]

Gave in and got Volume One. MM the ball seems awfully heavy. In general, the table seems to react closer to real life, but the ball seems very heavy.

In comparison to TPA or real life?

 

[yespage]

In comparison to TPA or real life?

Definitely compared to TPA, but it seems even a little heavy compared to real life... granted, it's been a while since I played MM. The ball just has a feel of it wants to drain.