- Feb 19, 2012
- 8,144
- 2
Right on, totally agree about the Pro Pinball nudging. Also, I haven’t tried with a keyboard, so you would be the one to ask for expertise in that area.
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Welcome Back to Digital Pinball Fans - please read this first
Zen Pinball FX3 Williams Pinball Volume One
- Thread starter jaredmorgs
- Start date
Right on, totally agree about the Pro Pinball nudging. Also, I haven’t tried with a keyboard, so you would be the one to ask for expertise in that area.
- Feb 19, 2012
- 8,144
- 2
Citizen
New member
- Oct 5, 2017
- 1,384
- 0
Stern owns the DE assets. I don't see them licensing them to a direct competitor of FarSight, even if they aren't using them.
But maybe Zen Williams will inspire FarSight to actually use their DE assets again. That'd be a nice thing to come out of this new environment where there's finally direct competition between two major digital pinball devs making recreations (no offense to A.S.K./Magic Pixel).
Well, I played Fish tales.
Plus. i've gotten way more fastcasts.
Minus. the flipper strength variation is way too great for a table this clean. This appears to have the standard Zen Tri-Strength flippers on it. I've had at least three wildly different trajectories from the same spot on the flipper. i've had shotss less than 1/3rd of the way down the flipper go up the correct boat ramp, go around the orbit, and hit the captive ball, as well as hit all the posts between.
Here's how the variable flipper strength bit is supposed to work. On a freshly waxed table, you are sure you aimed right and you hit the post dead center. On a broken in table, you aim for one shot and hit the one immediately next to it. (e.g. you aim for burn rubber on getaway and hit the orbit right next to it, or vice versa.) when the table is really dirty, you get more than a shot's width variation. the ball screams on fish tables as if it were freshly waxed, yet the flipper trajectories vary like it was so dirty you can see the dirt.
Not only that, the lightning flippers aim more consistently then non lightning ones i my experience. On the real machine, with lightning flippers, more often than not i can hit all five boat shots for the monster fish in a row. That said, choking on the spinner is not uncommon. Without the lightning flippers it's much harder. These lightning flippers sure don't play like the real ones did when i played it.
Keyboard nudge is at TPA strength, but gives you an INSTANT non regenerating tilt warning! i CANNOT analog stick nudge to save my life. A strong keyboard nudge should come perilously close to a danger, and if you do a second one within 30 seconds or so you should get one, but you shouldn't get a warning for your first press of the nudge button. Zen warnings regenerate. real pinball ones do not. Please weaken the keyboard nudge strength enough to not give an instant warning.
Plus. i've gotten way more fastcasts.
Minus. the flipper strength variation is way too great for a table this clean. This appears to have the standard Zen Tri-Strength flippers on it. I've had at least three wildly different trajectories from the same spot on the flipper. i've had shotss less than 1/3rd of the way down the flipper go up the correct boat ramp, go around the orbit, and hit the captive ball, as well as hit all the posts between.
Here's how the variable flipper strength bit is supposed to work. On a freshly waxed table, you are sure you aimed right and you hit the post dead center. On a broken in table, you aim for one shot and hit the one immediately next to it. (e.g. you aim for burn rubber on getaway and hit the orbit right next to it, or vice versa.) when the table is really dirty, you get more than a shot's width variation. the ball screams on fish tables as if it were freshly waxed, yet the flipper trajectories vary like it was so dirty you can see the dirt.
Not only that, the lightning flippers aim more consistently then non lightning ones i my experience. On the real machine, with lightning flippers, more often than not i can hit all five boat shots for the monster fish in a row. That said, choking on the spinner is not uncommon.
Without the lightning flippers it's much harder. These lightning flippers sure don't play like the real ones did when i played it.Keyboard nudge is at TPA strength, but gives you an INSTANT non regenerating tilt warning! i CANNOT analog stick nudge to save my life. A strong keyboard nudge should come perilously close to a danger, and if you do a second one within 30 seconds or so you should get one, but you shouldn't get a warning for your first press of the nudge button. Zen warnings regenerate. real pinball ones do not. Please weaken the keyboard nudge strength enough to not give an instant warning.
These tables are playing a little “choppy” in cabinet mode on my VPCabs Vertigo. (I had already set up cabinet mode for the FX3 regular tables prior to this beta.)
In cabinet mode the DMD is showing both in monitor 2 and at the top of the playfield. The backglass is not showing at all in monitor 2 — just the DMD. With the regular Zen tables the backglass art has to be copied to a specific folder in order to appear on monitor 2, so I’m just chalking this up to the beta.
*** EDIT ***
The playfield DMD can be turned off via the Options Streaming Menu, so that fixes that issue. I had already done this for the regular Zen tables, but it reset the option in the beta.
Of more concern is the “choppiness”. Audio in particular for “Fish Tales” is very choppy. The “Medieval Madness” table sounds more normal, but the ball moves a little choppy.
I’m going to be playing around with the Nvidia 3D settings tomorrow to see if I can get it to run a little smoother.
So far I much prefer the Arcooda/TPA cabinet mode software on my VPCabs Vertigo. The “light shows” for Medieval Madness seem far superior and the physics are nice and smooth. And, of course, I get full DMD/Backglass support on Monitor 2. The thing is, I paid extra for the Arcooda cabinet support, *plus* this is a beta; so it’s probably not fair to compare the two at this time.
In cabinet mode the DMD is showing both in monitor 2 and at the top of the playfield. The backglass is not showing at all in monitor 2 — just the DMD. With the regular Zen tables the backglass art has to be copied to a specific folder in order to appear on monitor 2, so I’m just chalking this up to the beta.
*** EDIT ***
The playfield DMD can be turned off via the Options Streaming Menu, so that fixes that issue. I had already done this for the regular Zen tables, but it reset the option in the beta.
Of more concern is the “choppiness”. Audio in particular for “Fish Tales” is very choppy. The “Medieval Madness” table sounds more normal, but the ball moves a little choppy.
I’m going to be playing around with the Nvidia 3D settings tomorrow to see if I can get it to run a little smoother.
So far I much prefer the Arcooda/TPA cabinet mode software on my VPCabs Vertigo. The “light shows” for Medieval Madness seem far superior and the physics are nice and smooth. And, of course, I get full DMD/Backglass support on Monitor 2. The thing is, I paid extra for the Arcooda cabinet support, *plus* this is a beta; so it’s probably not fair to compare the two at this time.
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joeblow
Member
- Feb 26, 2013
- 131
- 0
I am almost speechless. My digital pinball wish for the past few years has almost completely come 100% true. First, Farsight started to lose licenses which I was begging for due to their horrific tech handling of the tables they put out (PS4 version), and now we see those licenses go to another developer!
I mean, I would've celebrated if Fisher Price got the license over FS I was so ticked at them, but Zen Studios?! There handling of their own tables for years has impressed me from afar. I only stayed away since I like licensed tables from the arcades, but now we'll have the best of both worlds.
Thank you Zen Studios. Please don't ignore significant issues for years like those other guys and you will have my support (and that of many others) for a very long time.
~~~~
Questons!
- Any chance VR support will be added to the new releases (PSVR owner here)?
- I see impressions of the graphics and gameplay, but what do you testers think of the audio so far?
- Apparently the tables will be sold in packs of four, but is there any chance of buying them one at a time?
Thank you ZS once again!
I mean, I would've celebrated if Fisher Price got the license over FS I was so ticked at them, but Zen Studios?! There handling of their own tables for years has impressed me from afar. I only stayed away since I like licensed tables from the arcades, but now we'll have the best of both worlds.
Thank you Zen Studios. Please don't ignore significant issues for years like those other guys and you will have my support (and that of many others) for a very long time.
~~~~
Questons!
- Any chance VR support will be added to the new releases (PSVR owner here)?
- I see impressions of the graphics and gameplay, but what do you testers think of the audio so far?
- Apparently the tables will be sold in packs of four, but is there any chance of buying them one at a time?
Thank you ZS once again!
Ok tried getaway and junkyard.
Like Fish Tales, they seem to have the same tri strength flippers.
1 and a half minutes is NOT enough to get the feel of a table. but Junkyard is brutal as it is supposed to be.
finally figured out that if i pick borderless window AND turn vsync off it doesn't lag. but yes, so many outlane drains off of the middle standups. just like real life.
it is the ball buster it's supposed to be.
Like Fish Tales, they seem to have the same tri strength flippers.
1 and a half minutes is NOT enough to get the feel of a table. but Junkyard is brutal as it is supposed to be.
finally figured out that if i pick borderless window AND turn vsync off it doesn't lag. but yes, so many outlane drains off of the middle standups. just like real life.
it is the ball buster it's supposed to be.
shogun00
New member
- Dec 25, 2012
- 763
- 0
So in other words, outlook not so good for Rollergames.
PeacemakerPIN
New member
- Nov 19, 2015
- 134
- 0
Ya'll ready for this table with Zen's lighting? Because I know it'll look similar to this. (Texture wise especially)
Phil_194
New member
- Jul 9, 2017
- 23
- 0
I know my 2 cents won’t be worth much here, everyone seems super excited but I’m actually disappointed. I prefer to think of PA vs FX as not being the same thing, REAL vs DIGITAL, one is titled Pinball Arcade while the other game has special effects going for it... I think of all the kickstarters people have kindly pledged for, the original mission that Farsight had... all the hard work to build up a library of tables (on the verge of 100 strong), even though bug fixes were hard to come by. I just don’t see the point... ah yes the point. I should have known this would happen, as it’s all about making money for these companies. I love the iPad but the App Store is infested with all these games that rob you and will make you dumber for it. Pat Lawlor I remember saying that the primary function of a pinball machine is to make money. I don’t think I’ll be buying them over again, but I’m willing to try a demo if it comes to iOS. I just can’t feel excited about this, sorry everyone.
- Mar 14, 2012
- 7,334
- 0
It didn’t look good for FarSight. Zen might have better luck, maybe approaching the situation from a yet unthought of angle.
I honestly don’t think any of us on the forum can say what is and isn’t possible for Zen. 2 months ago there were people saying no way Zen would be able recreate real tables, and Scientific Games was going to mothball the license. Today I see people going “I knew it!”
Citizen
New member
- Oct 5, 2017
- 1,384
- 0
Release it and see if anyone bothers to sue them?
- Mar 14, 2012
- 7,334
- 0
Your 2 cents are valid feelings. I've said it elsewhere, but you can't look at this as picking sides of one company over another. If FarSight was still able to make WMS tables, than sure, but they can't even sell the ones they did make anymore. And you can still support them by buying in just a few days Big Buck Hunter and Whoa Nellie. There are people on Zen's Facebook page saying they don't want "boring real tables" in FX3 because they only want tables with all the animations and such. What everyone is getting excited over, and if you could play the demo you'd understand, is that Zen is addressing issues and making good on things we in this forum have been begging to happen in TPA for years.
But hey, this won't be available for mobile for a while, and you still can play your TPA tables no matter what. Look at the pics, watch some of the videos, just enjoy that WMS in digital pinball format is going to live on.
- Mar 14, 2012
- 7,334
- 0
I believe Norman had told me they were honestly thinking of doing that themselves! Said that'd be one way to get them talking to them.
- Feb 19, 2012
- 8,144
- 2
I felt the same way in the past, and I never really enjoyed Zen's take on pinball in general...however, this is a new day for Zen. They have now gone fully to the REAL side of things, and with just this one beta/demo, they've done more in terms of quality and nailing that REAL feeling of pinball than Farsight ever did in all their years leading up to this. No disrespect to Farsight though; they did an admirable job...but this is just on a whole new level in terms of a realistic pinball experience.
So my suggestion would be to open your mind and let the tables speak for themselves. If you put on a blindfold and booted up the game, not knowing who made it, and sat down and started playing a table, I guarantee you would love every minute of it. There's no need to let you predetermined view of Zen spoil this because it truly is amazing from a realistic pinball point of view.
I honestly couldn't care less who makes the game as long as it's good and feels like real pinball...and well, quite frankly, they nailed it!
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I actually was one that was hoping Zen would get the license and start creating real tables instead of original graphic heavy ones.
I have been saying since Zen released the Aliens table pack that ever since those tables, they have looked and felt like that could be an actual real life table, minus the graphics that come up here and there, but if you just took the base table and it's design, you could see it as an actual table.
Especially those Aliens and Aliens vs Predator tables. The pop up targets and even the ones of the Alien that would come up and move back and forth were like if it was a board and not an animated character going back and forth...
I have a feeling those as well as others were to show companies that they could create tables that were closer to real life than the heavy animated and graphics ones...
I'm just glad it's happening and FINALLY we'll have very good quality of these tables... I absolutely hated the lighting on the console versions of Pinball Arcade, well on PS4... The lighting wasn't as bad or as dark on just gen systems... Also the numerous bugs that never get fixed or even that try to, they mess up other things and how long they take to release content...
With Zen at least we know they release content at the same time across all platforms and don't just cater to one platform like how Farsight does with PC over consoles...
Now let's just hope the other companies jump ship from Farsight... Farsight has betrayed their console customers...
Tabe
Member
- Apr 12, 2012
- 833
- 0
I just got done playing each table once in the beta.
Wow.
The tables all feel great to me. The physics, the way the ball rolls, etc, all feel very good. And definitely different than the previous Zen tables. The level of polish is very high and the games LOOK fantastic.
Bottom line: I am super pumped for these. They look and play better than what TPA did with them.
Wow.
The tables all feel great to me. The physics, the way the ball rolls, etc, all feel very good. And definitely different than the previous Zen tables. The level of polish is very high and the games LOOK fantastic.
Bottom line: I am super pumped for these. They look and play better than what TPA did with them.
Tabe
Member
- Apr 12, 2012
- 833
- 0
If you're using an Xbox controller or similar for playing the games, you can use that to navigate the menus just fine. I didn't have to use my mouse or keyboard once.
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