Zen Pinball FX3 Williams Pinball Volume One

[karussellbremser]

I'm surprised that this topic hasn't been brought up yet (or have I overseen that?) but has anything been said by Zen about how (or if) the table ROMs are emulated? Or did they recompile the source files, just like Farsight did for the new Sterns?

 

[wolfson]

Spent some time with the latest Fish Tales update last night:

On the physics front:

Single Player - yep, old style Zen physics. Fine for those wanting it.

Classic Single Player (Arcade) - Wow! This is real pinball. As others have mentioned, I believe this should be the default setting for all Williams tables and selectable for all Zen tables. I was initially a little confused playing 'Single Player' until I realized the simulation option was called 'Classic Single Player'. Getting past that, man the ball really feels alive! However, given that the bubble is on the second notch of the spirit level, I felt that the ball was accelerating toward the flippers a smidge too fast in the lower third of the table. Not by much, perhaps as little as 10%. Other than that and with a fix to the issues above, this would be good to go for me! Thanks Deep, brilliant work

Classic Single Player (Tournament) - Works for me. Definitely more challenge there and the ball speed felt about right for that angle of playfield.

On the graphics front:

Wow! Fish Tales is pretty much good to go. The lights have a nice glow now and a real pop! Contrast is good between the lighting and the playfield (and the rest of the table).

However, the lights on the other three tables still seem flat by comparison. They don't have the same level of contrast and don't seem to glow like FT. MM is really quite flat still. I hope this can be improved before release. FT should be the standard please.

Thanks Zen... amazing

kimkom , I feel the same as you . I think they did all the fancy work on Fish Tales , and they have been working on the other 3 tables , so bang on October the 9th , it should hit us on our happy dials !!!

 

[Nomorestalker]

I remember hearing that they run off of the rom, but how they achieve this wasn't mentioned.

 

[shutyertrap]

It’s ROM emulation but they’ve also been able to optimize it so that there’s no performance hit. Considering they worked in all their overlays and have the scoring mods seemlessly integrated, I’d say they are definitely not using the same method of emulation VP and TPA use (which were virtually identical in practice).

 

[Fungi]

Ooh, does that mean Zen can fix original coding bugs and uncap score maximums that FS wasn't allowed to?

 

[shutyertrap]

Ooh, does that mean Zen can fix original coding bugs and uncap score maximums that FS wasn't allowed to?

Zen has complete freedom apparently to do whatever, they just won't (and it might be aren't allowed) change the rules. But you know how FarSight was using audio cues to trigger goal rewards? Zen is clearly reading code, especially since if you are using score upgrade mods they are immediately reflected in the actual score, on top of how you have all the scores visually appearing around the table with zero delay. When they make Creature, I guess we'll see if there's that 10 billion rollover score problem that TPA suffers with. There's where guys like Tarek who break ROMs with their scores will come in handy.

 

[Dok5555555]

I know most of you are probably playing classic mode but on Fish Tales in Zen mode its really hard not to drain your ball right down the center. And its impossible to save if its going straight down, the nudge isn't strong enough to get it to the flippers. I think with in the past with Zen originals this wasn't an issue because the flippers were closer together, seems like there's a big gap in fish tales.


I also noticed after playing the TPA Fish Tales that I almost never hit that captured ball in the center, but with Zen I'm hitting that all the time. Which is more like the real table if anyone knows?

 

[DA5ID]

I know most of you are probably playing classic mode but on Fish Tales in Zen mode its really hard not to drain your ball right down the center. And its impossible to save if its going straight down, the nudge isn't strong enough to get it to the flippers. I think with in the past with Zen originals this wasn't an issue because the flippers were closer together, seems like there's a big gap in fish tales.


I also noticed after playing the TPA Fish Tales that I almost never hit that captured ball in the center, but with Zen I'm hitting that all the time. Which is more like the real table if anyone knows?

Center shot is not a gimme on a real table - has t be a solid shot with enough force to get the captive ball up to the target

 

[shutyertrap]

And its impossible to save if its going straight down, the nudge isn't strong enough to get it to the flippers.

If a ball is rolling on a flat surface of the table and does not make contact with another object, nudging will not move the ball. That is a simple physics fact of the real world, and something TPA broke the laws of physics with.

 

[Dok5555555]

If a ball is rolling on a flat surface of the table and does not make contact with another object, nudging will not move the ball. That is a simple physics fact of the real world, and something TPA broke the laws of physics with.

I get that but I was playing in zen mode and usually you can keep a ball alive a lot easier. It's not really the nudging, zen's nudging has always been like that. It's more the fact the gap between the flippers is bigger than their usual tables and there's nothing to compensate for that, so it makes it harder get a good flow going like you can in other zen tables.

 

[The loafer]

If a ball is rolling on a flat surface of the table and does not make contact with another object, nudging will not move the ball. That is a simple physics fact of the real world, and something TPA broke the laws of physics with.

I don't think that's completely accurate. The table should move under the ball but return back. In effect, nudging perfectly in real life, you can slightly, if timed right, get a ball that's going to miss to actually hit the flipper (at least I think?)

 

[Jeff Strong]

Speaking of flipper gaps, anyone remember the TPA flipper gap fiasco in MM? I don't think they ever really got it right, and truthfully it does feel just a wee bit more narrow in FX3 (there are balls that I felt would've drained for sure in TPA, but were save-able in FX3). We'd have to compare screenshots to really know for sure, and of course the angles make a difference too.

 

[AcadDude]

If a ball is rolling on a flat surface of the table and does not make contact with another object, nudging will not move the ball. That is a simple physics fact of the real world, and something TPA broke the laws of physics with.

I think I have seen a few folks gorilla a game sideways and the ball stays where it is for the most part as the game is moved over and the ball now is half a foot over from the center where it was before. Not what an arcade owner wants to see! I am pretty sure it was an instant tilt!

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

 

[Jeff Strong]

Aha!

 

[Fungi]

Speaking of flipper gaps, anyone remember the TPA flipper gap fiasco in MM?

I do! I do! I do!

 

[Blkthorne]

Was just playing Fish Tales a few times today, it almost feels like the posts in front of the captive ball don't allow any chance for your ball to hit it. Anyone else having the same trouble?

And right after I post this, was finally able to hit the shot but just seemed very random cause I was constantly firing shots right at it the last couple times. heh

Nevermind, now I'm hitting the shot, from what I read it is a tough shot so Zen is doing very well with the current beta build IMO.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Had a chance to play some more FT and overall the classic physics in this version do feel a lot better. Now if they can fix the orbit issues and tone down the forward nudge a bit, I think we'll be golden.

Really hoping to see some darker lighting on the other tables before release. FT looks great, but the others are too bright in comparison.

 

[SilverBalls]

Really hoping to see some darker lighting on the other tables before release. FT looks great, but the others are too bright in comparison.

Same for me. I have the alpha slider set to the darkest already and FT looks good (although I would still want to go a tad darker) but the other 3 need to be darker if possible.

 

[kimkom]

Had a chance to play some more FT and overall the classic physics in this version do feel a lot better. Now if they can fix the orbit issues and tone down the forward nudge a bit, I think we'll be golden.

Really hoping to see some darker lighting on the other tables before release. FT looks great, but the others are too bright in comparison.

Agree on the lighting. FT quality should be the standard for all Williams tables.

Anybody else feeling the ball accelerates toward the flippers a bit too fast on the 'Arcade' setting? Feels like the table angle is ramped up a more than it's actually showing.

How's everyone finding the difficulty on the Classic Single Player now? I was struggling to get 150M last night and I was really trying!