Zen & Stern collaboration teaser?

[Gusbomb]

I have a nice 3-screen set-up and will be getting a full-featured cab soon. Unfortunately, I am a free alternative failure and therefore constrained to what Steam or other companies package nicely for me. I have tried to install and launch free alts numerous times, always patiently following whichever 5-hour walkthrough guarantees to hold my hand through to success. I'm lucky my PC still operates correctly. This is not the forum to beg for help with installation and I am not doing so, having resigned myself essentially to Steam products. But if any pro near central VA wants the house call . . . . and again after the cab is purchased.

 

[HighFive]

For those of us wanting EM tables, there are free alternatives that will usually be more faithful (and more fun) than any commercial digital rendition that TPA has, or Zen could ever release. Regardless, if you do not have a full pincab setup with DOF, B2S and all the hardware chimes, motors, tilt bob and the like, you will realize pretty quick that most EM tables are just not that fun when you can't interact with them as they were intended.

I like the free alternative, all the authors making em are going gods job. But its on PC, dont have a pincap ( would love one but cost for one already made is expensive, difficult to acquire in my area , and no patience, big knowlegde of building my own ), and adding all that, that why i love the simple plug and play of console, even considering making a 1 screen setup with my Switch, but there is a noticeable visual difference between Switch and PC/ PS4 .

 

[sh4wnsm1th]

Can't wait for the older tables, for some reason older tables have a flow I like. I will say Fish Tales, once I got used to it, is quickly becoming one of my favorites, due to the shots just feeling satisfyingly fluid. Still can't wait to see some EMs recreated, for me, that really showcases the physics and the skill of players, as they are deceptively simple.

 

[steven120566]

Zen will get to alphanumeric tables soon according to Mel.......That is why they started with DMD, as it was clearly what Zen originals were modeled after. Alphanumerics have rules that often got close to what the DMD era was known for, and hopefully the Zen audience will grow to love those. If they do, it's not a stretch to say they just might enjoy certain SS numeric machines. But yeah, EMs? Those are a hard sell to even pinball enthusiasts.

Yeah, that makes sense as to why we've just seen the DMDs so far. The casual (forgive me for the stereotype), younger, pinball players would likely lose interest the further back in time we go....

But I am glad Mel indicated that they will at least go back to the SS tables. And HighFive has a point. The sounds of "Big Shot" are so organic that they are calming to a degree, lets you focus entirely on the shot.

 

[HighFive]

IF one day Zen grab the Stern license, one thing id love to see is having the option to buy all different version of Stern machines, not just different skins one like they did in SPA. And why not make a different price for each one. Collectors would love all three, and different pricing range, as example, for BKSoR, Pro at 6,99, Premium 9,99, Limited 13,99 could also reflect real like pricing. I really love as example to purchase AcDc Pro with no inside playfield ( not a fan of it ). I hope if its happen one day , its something Zen could consider!

 

[Gorgias32]

IF one day Zen grab the Stern license, one thing id love to see is having the option to buy all different version of Stern machines, just just different skins one like they did in SPA. And why not make a different price for each one. Collectors would love all three, and different pricing range, as example, for BKSoR, Pro at 6,99, Premium 9,99, Limited 13,99 could also reflect real like pricing. I really love as example to purchase AcDc Pro with no inside playfield ( not a fan of it ). I hope if its happen one day , its something Zen could consider!

Love that idea - and you're right, I think a lot of people would spring for both the Pro and Premium/LE, even more so if there are differences in the rules and layout.

 

[shutyertrap]

I think the option for Pro or LE would depend on Stern and whether they’d want the non bells and whistles budget version being represented. Since it’s not just artwork, it would also be more build time for Zen as well as additional tuning. In other words, they offer AC/DC as a 3 pack and charge the $9.99 price. But how’s that gonna go over with the casual fan that just wants one version? Zen doesn’t want a bunch of SKUs clogging up the store. Something to think about.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

I think the option for Pro or LE would depend on Stern and whether they’d want the non bells and whistles budget version being represented. Since it’s not just artwork, it would also be more build time for Zen as well as additional tuning. In other words, they offer AC/DC as a 3 pack and charge the $9.99 price. But how’s that gonna go over with the casual fan that just wants one version? Zen doesn’t want a bunch of SKUs clogging up the store. Something to think about.

Kind of a neat idea: Can they use part of the enhancements to swap between cosmetics of the Premium and LE versions? Or would that take too much time and effort?

 

[trash80]

I think the option for Pro or LE would depend on Stern and whether they’d want the non bells and whistles budget version being represented. Since it’s not just artwork, it would also be more build time for Zen as well as additional tuning. In other words, they offer AC/DC as a 3 pack and charge the $9.99 price. But how’s that gonna go over with the casual fan that just wants one version? Zen doesn’t want a bunch of SKUs clogging up the store. Something to think about.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Zen set the price for a single Stern table to around $9.99, and if they are somehow able to make packs with multiple tables, maybe $14.99 for 2 and $19.99 for 3.

And when they do finally get around to doing Stern tables, it will be with a completely new Stern only app and sold exclusively on the Epic Games Store.

 

[wilbers]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Zen set the price for a single Stern table to around $9.99, and if they are somehow able to make packs with multiple tables, maybe $14.99 for 2 and $19.99 for 3.

And when they do finally get around to doing Stern tables, it will be with a completely new Stern only app and sold exclusively on the Epic Games Store.

Why do you think that's likely? That pricing is completely different to what they have done to date. Just because they have announced Castle Storm 2 for Epic Games store is that any reason to suppose that Stern tables would exclusively (non-exclusive is a different matter entirely) be released (PC version) on there when current customer base is on Steam.

I expect Zen would like to keep everything within FX3, but a separate Stern app is still a possibility.

Seems likely with most Stern tables that there would be a Premium/LE release with options to toggle what version you want as they seem to mostly just have cosmetic differences, and the Pro is similar but with a couple of major features removed. If from Stern's point of view one of the aims of having a digital version of current tables is to try and increase sales of physical tables (both to individuals, and getting more people to play pinball so operators buy more), surely they would want to push Premium/LE more than Pro versions?

 

[HighFive]

I think the option for Pro or LE would depend on Stern and whether they’d want the non bells and whistles budget version being represented. Since it’s not just artwork, it would also be more build time for Zen as well as additional tuning. In other words, they offer AC/DC as a 3 pack and charge the $9.99 price. But how’s that gonna go over with the casual fan that just wants one version? Zen doesn’t want a bunch of SKUs clogging up the store. Something to think about.

Yeah its more time to build, tune everything, but i think build time could like be done after the pro version, and all the extra, change are done after. Its still more time to develop, but way less than building three totally different tables. Perhaps Zen doesnt want a bunch of SKU as you said on the store, but if its the way Stern want it ( in a way Stern look like they wanted this with AcDc, Mustang, Star Trek, Ghostbusters , different buying option for their special edition ), i think Zen would comply and perhaps as a solution is making a different app for it to happen, like Farsight did. And i agree with you, having one single buying option for the same pack of three table im not sure it would please everyone.

Well were not there yet, nobody knows what happening with Stern license and were just speculating at this point, i simply hope at a certain point if its come to that, well get a chance to see something like that happening!

 

[trash80]

Why do you think that's likely? That pricing is completely different to what they have done to date. Just because they have announced Castle Storm 2 for Epic Games store is that any reason to suppose that Stern tables would exclusively (non-exclusive is a different matter entirely) be released (PC version) on there when current customer base is on Steam.

I expect Zen would like to keep everything within FX3, but a separate Stern app is still a possibility.

Seems likely with most Stern tables that there would be a Premium/LE release with options to toggle what version you want as they seem to mostly just have cosmetic differences, and the Pro is similar but with a couple of major features removed. If from Stern's point of view one of the aims of having a digital version of current tables is to try and increase sales of physical tables (both to individuals, and getting more people to play pinball so operators buy more), surely they would want to push Premium/LE more than Pro versions?

Zen (as with many small publishers) is moving everything they can over to be Epic Store exclusives while they can and Castle Storm 2 isn't the first time for them to do this. Modern Stern tables should be valued more like the Pro Pinball model and less like the FX3 DLC model.

 

[shutyertrap]

)i think Zen would comply and perhaps as a solution is making a different app for it to happen, like Farsight did. And i agree with you, having one single buying option for the same pack of three table im not sure it would please everyone.

Stern contracted FarSight to make SPA. Once that contract was complete, you saw all the tables come into TPA. Mel has repeatedly said FX3 is a platform, a hub, from which all the tables will be playable. Stern would just get its own column much like Williams has now. On mobile, I certainly can see Stern getting its own app.

Zen (as with many small publishers) is moving everything they can over to be Epic Store exclusives while they can and Castle Storm 2 isn't the first time for them to do this. Modern Stern tables should be valued more like the Pro Pinball model and less like the FX3 DLC model.

As I just pointed out above, I don’t believe Zen would do that just for Stern as they’d have to move all of FX3 too. Also, does FX3 run on the Unreal engine? That seems to be the common thread with games going over to be exclusive on Epic (I might be very wrong on this as I haven’t paid that much attention).

 

[trash80]

As I just pointed out above, I don’t believe Zen would do that just for Stern as they’d have to move all of FX3 too. Also, does FX3 run on the Unreal engine? That seems to be the common thread with games going over to be exclusive on Epic (I might be very wrong on this as I haven’t paid that much attention).

The Unreal engine isn't the common thread. guaranteed pre-payment for projected Steam sales, a 12% storefront take, and a less cancerous (from a publishers viewpoint) platform is.

Stern fancies themselves an Americana lifestyle brand (like Harley-Davidson, Levis and Gibson) and have been pushing this the last couple years with specific marketing and partnerships. I don't see Stern being keen on a Zen branded app and part of me expects to see tables be released as standalone self contained titles and probably be priced closer to other mid-tier AA/AAA titles.

Now if Zen can get access to old Stern stuff (pre-SPIKE) then I guess we could see them in FX3/4 but there would need to be a lot of backroom dealing that I don't believe Stern would open themselves up to. Since I don't think Zen will want to sell something that is still available from another publisher.

So lets see is anything AC/DC comes FX3 way in the near(ish) future. But how heavy will they need to censor that? Which you must admit, none of the more recent Stern tables work with an E10 rating placed on them.

 

[Citizen]

God I really hope Zen doesn't make the Stern Pinball Arcade mistake.

But come to think of it, that is probably what Stern will push for again.

 

[shutyertrap]

I have not been told in any way if a deal is in the works between Zen and Stern (and yes I asked). So this is not me doing a secret nod and a wink, I know the answer but I just can’t say sort of thing. Of course Zen is interested, and why wouldn’t they be? But no formal talks have been had.

Here’s what I do know. There was a pub crawl in Chicago during Star Wars Celebration (both companies had booths there) with various Stern and Zen individuals, led by Gary. Zen has a certain ambitions that they want to happen regardless of who they are talking to. Witness the roll out of digital pinball cabinets that will happen soon (it was on display once more this past week at E3). It’s going to take the visions of both Zen and Stern lining up if any talks are to even start on a formal level.

I was given a glimpse into that vision by being told some things about the cabinet I can’t repeat at this time. To say the least, if Stern comes onboard things are not going to be as simple as dropping off a machine with some CAD files and Zen just repeating how interactions were between Stern and FarSight. If Stern doesn’t see things the same way, I think Zen just says “nice talkin’ to ya” and keeps moving on.

 

[Citizen]

That last paragraph makes me think Zen's vision is to eventually have all of FX3 on cabinet including Williams and any other licenses they may pick up (such as Stern), which may clash with Stern's general distaste for pincabs.

But that's just a complete shot in the dark on my part.

 

[HighFive]

Well, perhaps Zen want to make FX the central hub where you get all pinball, but taking as example Star Wars coming out for Nintendo Switch, it look like it was a deal maybe ask by Disney so they get their own Star Wars app, for its own visibility. Sure the game got some ´extra’ features that cannot be linked into FX3 , but i think it felt like more of a way to make sure its serapate from the pack, for visibility of being a new Star Wars product releasing close to the movie, well for me, it felt that way. Its why i think IF one day we get the chance to see Stern with Zen, i think compromise can be made. Im just curious to know how Stern is feeling about the digital market at all, make me wonder if the tables they released in SPA and and TPA was a good investment for them, and did it bring them visibility for their table? Was it needed? Can it get better with Zen?

Till then, finger cross, cause i really would love to see more Stern into TPA, but nothing is happening.

 

[trash80]

I have not been told in any way if a deal is in the works between Zen and Stern (and yes I asked). So this is not me doing a secret nod and a wink, I know the answer but I just can’t say sort of thing. Of course Zen is interested, and why wouldn’t they be? But no formal talks have been had.

Here’s what I do know. There was a pub crawl in Chicago during Star Wars Celebration (both companies had booths there) with various Stern and Zen individuals, led by Gary. Zen has a certain ambitions that they want to happen regardless of who they are talking to. Witness the roll out of digital pinball cabinets that will happen soon (it was on display once more this past week at E3). It’s going to take the visions of both Zen and Stern lining up if any talks are to even start on a formal level.

I was given a glimpse into that vision by being told some things about the cabinet I can’t repeat at this time. To say the least, if Stern comes onboard things are not going to be as simple as dropping off a machine with some CAD files and Zen just repeating how interactions were between Stern and FarSight. If Stern doesn’t see things the same way, I think Zen just says “nice talkin’ to ya” and keeps moving on.

Well, if Zen can utilize the real part of the SGI business (gambling and all that goes with it) with their operator marketed pincabs, it would probably be a huge payday for them.

And as long as Gary loves being a USA manufacturer, I doubt Stern will ever embrace the digital pincab format.

 

[trash80]

Im just curious to know how Stern is feeling about the digital market at all, make me wonder if the tables they released in SPA and and TPA was a good investment for them, and did it bring them visibility for their table? Was it needed? Can it get better with Zen?

Gary always viewed the purpose of the digital app to be a preview of and a pinball map to where you could play a local physical table, and obviously this didn't happen. He has said they made a couple bucks from Stern Pinball Arcade, but nothing worth mentioning.