Zen Studios alters classic pinball art to protect family-friendly rating

[bavelb]

Not buying the tables until this is resolved. I don't want to support censorship.

 

[karussellbremser]

I personally do not wanna jump into the "won't buy" bandwagon, but yes, I am way less enthusiastic right now about the whole Zen/WMS project with the prospect that we might be getting only "kid-friendly" versions of tables in the future. Just imagine that after the announcement of a new table pack, immediately there will be discussions about what is going to be censored in the Zen releases. And yes, I haven't bought the Zen WMS tables yet as I'm waiting for the end of the year when I'll be getting a new PC, and probably I'll be tempted to stick with my TPA purchases for some time. The thought that they are even thinking about deleting gameplay aspects from tables (like the gambling mini-game in Champion Pub) in conjunction with Mel mentioning the great sales numbers of the Williams tables despite the censoring makes me wonder how seriously they take the issue.

I sincerely hope that they keep on listening to their fanbase (something that has made Zen so successful over the years, which Mel remarked in the recent Blahcade interview) and find some way to offer really uncompromised recreations of classic tables for their adult user base.

Btw: I would think that this topic would better fit in the "General Game Discussion" forum.

 

[Kolchak357]

I doubt it would stop me from buying any specific table. But I hate this bowing to ridiculous social pressures. Is it book burning? No, of cource not. Is it wrong? IMO yes, it's wrong.
Maybe they can place black bars over half the artworks in the Louvre. Please protect us! Oh the horror!

 

[shutyertrap]

My thoughts as seen in a Twitter response:

"If there’s one thing that sends me into a tizzy faster than anything, it’s presenting logical fact based evidence and having it dismissed by unfounded hypothetical hysteria. I’ve followed MPAA ratings battles in the past and they are equally infuriating. An example I just used the other day; Robocop had to remove 9 seconds of ED-209 turning that exec into a meatsicle to get an ‘R’. Without the 9 sec, the scene is horrifically violent. With, it becomes comically absurd. So the edit actually had the opposite effect the MPAA wanted. There’s also the old standby of how violence in movies is always more acceptable than consensual sex. You are allowed 3 hip thrusts for sex before it becomes NC-17, but can filet the skin off a naked girl all you want. Watch ‘This Film Is Not Yet Rated’ and get frustrated. Companies cater to the perceived threat of offending a couple of people (who likely were never going to be customers anyways) rather than pleasing their core. If you can just ride out the initial outrage, you’ll be left alone as the outrage moves to something new."

Remember when people were worried about the 'children' regarding The Simpsons and South Park? They didn't cave and now 20 years later South Park can do or say practically anything and it's just accepted. Countless shows have been threatened with boycotts over language, suggestive content, or too much flesh. 'I Dream of Jeanie' caused an uproar over Barbera Eden's belly button. 'The Brady Bunch' (yeah) dared to be the first show to feature a married couple with only one bed, and it showed them in it together! Point is, ratings are based on whatever the social norms of right now are. Zen needs to submit whatever the perceived worst offenders in pinball are and see what the ESRB comes down with, and then all other table questions will be moot on that front. If being concerned what other licencors might object to, and we all know Disney is the only real threat here, Zen needs to have that conversation with them, using the same tables presented to the ESRB. Find out what the definitive line is, don't guess. That can then be presented to the customers and the whole debate can be put to rest.

 

[infernogott]

Disney apparently is ruling the world when it's affecting Williams Pinball recreations.

 

[Citizen]

'The Brady Bunch' (yeah) dared to be the first show to feature a married couple with only one bed

Brady Bunch is at least 5th in line.

 

[Kolchak357]

But the Brady Bunch still had no toilet.

 

[kinggo]

I have to wonder how many people would even notice the changes if they hadn't been pointed out

so, the question is obvious then.
Guns are constitutional rights there, but every other aspect of everyday life is something that people need protection from. And ( . ) ( . ) are my #1 example of utter BS since the first thing we did after birth was sucking one.

 

[shutyertrap]

Brady Bunch is at least 5th in line.

Some show called Mary Kay and Johnny was apparently first, lost to history as no recordings of it exist (it was live TV). The Flinstones had one bed, but that gets dismissed for being animated. The Munsters showed Lilly and Fred in bed, but apparently that gets overlooked since they were ‘monsters’. And finally you land in The Brady Bunch. So 4th to do it, but my point is still valid. By the way, in looking that all up I came across the fact that on I Love Lucy, the network wouldn’t let them say the word “pregnant” and tried to hide her real pregnancy for as long as possible because of fear for how the audience would react.

 

[shutyertrap]

so, the question is obvious then.
Guns are constitutional rights there, but every other aspect of everyday life is something that people need protection from. And ( . ) ( . ) are my #1 example of utter BS since the first thing we did after birth was sucking one.

Though they have a very real and natural function, there’s no denying boobs have been (for centuries) sexualized too. I also don’t believe the US is the only country where what a woman does with her body is under attack. Yes sex might be viewed as less of a stigma than it is here, but other issues still persist.

 

[Citizen]

Some show called Mary Kay and Johnny was apparently first, lost to history as no recordings of it exist (it was live TV). The Flinstones had one bed, but that gets dismissed for being animated. The Munsters showed Lilly and Fred in bed, but apparently that gets overlooked since they were ‘monsters’. And finally you land in The Brady Bunch. So 4th to do it

You forgot Ozzie and Harriet.

George and Jane Jetson sometimes too but their bed(s) varied constantly.

but my point is still valid.

Probably, but I was never concerned with the actual point of the post to begin with.

 

[kinggo]

Though they have a very real and natural function, there’s no denying boobs have been (for centuries) sexualized too. I also don’t believe the US is the only country where what a woman does with her body is under attack. Yes sex might be viewed as less of a stigma than it is here, but other issues still persist.

yeah....... but censoring cartoon artwork from 30-40 years ago in the name of child protection is just plain BS. Who will protect them from people of walmart?
And don't think that conservatives in Europe don't have their moment. But luckily (or unluckily ) not over such a trivial things as pinball artwork.

 

[shutyertrap]

You forgot Ozzie and Harriet.

George and Jane Jetson sometimes too but their bed(s) varied constantly.



Probably, but I was never concerned with the actual point of the post to begin with.

Fine, be difficult!

For the record though, every article I've read agrees with what I posted, and the distinction is showing a married couple in bed together. Not just showing a double bed, not having one in bed and the other sitting on the edge, but in bed fully. Also from what I read, having two twin beds separated by a night stand was known in real life as having an Ozzie and Harriet setup.

 

[Citizen]

Fine, be difficult!

Well if you insist.

At about 13:20.

And don't forget to buy some fine Quaker products.

 

[Dok5555555]

Has anything been censored in The Getaway? Doesn't seem like there's too much there that would need to be censored.

 

[FarSight_Matt]

Has anything been censored in The Getaway? Doesn't seem like there's too much there that would need to be censored.

Should we be teaching children to go fast in cars? They should probably remove all the dust clouds and anything else insinuating breaking speed limit laws. Think of the kids, Mel!

 

[Jeff Strong]

The hooker’s butt crack still shows through her dress, so I think we’re good

 

[Dok5555555]

The hooker’s butt crack still shows through her dress, so I think we’re good

Yea I noticed that too and thought at first she just wasn't wearing pants at all.

 

[rehtroboi40]

Girls in bikinis and video games have always gone hand in hand

It’s kind of funny that the some of the industry is more prudish about this now than nearly 40 years ago.

Not that big of a deal to me, but just find it a bit interesting that it’s something that needs censored now.

Interesting that you would use as an example a game that was also censored. Jungle King became Jungle Hunt after Taito was sued for the use of Tarzan's likeliness and roar. They replaced him with a more generic-looking safari explorer. You've got to love that his safari hat looks more like a bicycle helmet!

Remember the hoopla over the SNES version of the first Mortal Kombat? Lots of sweat in that one! Nintendo made Acclaim clean up the blood and change "finishing moves". How ironic that in cleaning it up, they defacated all over it!

I can understand why Zen wants to toe-the-line, since they don't want to deal with the ESRB again. That's what makes their Williams tables more of a double-edged sword than they have to be. I'm no fan of censorship (understandable if copyright infringement is involved though), but I'm still enjoying these old tables in a new environment in PFX3.

I've also noticed they've "censored" the horizontal seams that FarSight had in some tables in TPA. (Ok, that was sarcasm!)

 

[Kolchak357]

I'd rather they just avoid pins that they feel the need to sanitize like an overprotective helicopter mom. Stick to tables that they don't have to mess with. Plenty of those.