Arcooda Cab Views 2 to 4 play in Slow Motion. View 1 fine - Build 1.70.18 (5th June)

[SilverBalls]

Finally! Working Smoothly in ALL Views!

I finally managed to get smooth ball movement at a full 60fps in all views across about 6 tables that I tested, using the cab beta v1.70.27.

All I did was change a bloody cable. I hope this will work for others.

For my test I used the 2-screen setup, with both monitors running at full 1920 x 1080, and with all graphical options set to maximum.
I used Fullscreen in the config.

I still need to Alt-tab just ONCE back around to the Playfield after launching a table in the previously slow views. You may remember although Alt-tab increased my FPS previously, it did NOT make the table go to a full 60 FPS, nor did it give me smooth ball movement. Now it does.


Previous Setup
Playfield Monitor - DVI to DVI cable on the playfield monitor, which made the playfield monitor #2 in windows
Backglass Monitor - HDMI (Graphics Card end) to DVI cable (monitor end), which made the backglass monitor #1 in windows


New Setup
Playfield Monitor - Changed this to HDMI to HDMI cable. Playfield is now #1
Backglass Monitor - Left this the same - ie: HDMI (Graphics Card end) to DVI cable (monitor end). Backglass is now monitor #2.


Remember I must do an Alt-Tab ONCE. Also important is to have desktop composition ON (ie: Aero theme). If you see the playfield actually playing in the Alt-tab ICON, then you know you have this.


The thing is the old cable does not cause an FPS issue with TPA DX11 Normal program nor any other Steam game, so why for TPA?
I hope Farsight can reproduce this, now armed with this information.

Is it because there are two monitors? Why would a cable make a difference (timing?)
Is it because the playfield was monitor #2 before and now it is monitor #1.

Will be interesting to hear if this works for others.

 

[L33]

I finally managed to get smooth ball movement at a full 60fps in all views across about 6 tables that I tested, using the cab beta v1.70.27.

All I did was change a bloody cable. I hope this will work for others.

For my test I used the 2-screen setup, with both monitors running at full 1920 x 1080, and with all graphical options set to maximum.
I used Fullscreen in the config.

I still need to Alt-tab just ONCE back around to the Playfield after launching a table in the previously slow views. You may remember although Alt-tab increased my FPS previously, it did NOT make the table go to a full 60 FPS, nor did it give me smooth ball movement. Now it does.


Previous Setup
Playfield Monitor - DVI to DVI cable on the playfield monitor, which made the playfield monitor #2 in windows
Backglass Monitor - HDMI (Graphics Card end) to DVI cable (monitor end), which made the backglass monitor #1 in windows


New Setup
Playfield Monitor - Changed this to HDMI to HDMI cable. Playfield is now #1
Backglass Monitor - Left this the same - ie: HDMI (Graphics Card end) to DVI cable (monitor end). Backglass is now monitor #2.


Remember I must do an Alt-Tab ONCE. Also important is to have desktop composition ON (ie: Aero theme). If you see the playfield actually playing in the Alt-tab ICON, then you know you have this.


The thing is the old cable does not cause an FPS issue with TPA DX11 Normal program nor any other Steam game, so why for TPA?
I hope Farsight can reproduce this, now armed with this information.

Is it because there are two monitors? Why would a cable make a difference (timing?)
Is it because the playfield was monitor #2 before and now it is monitor #1.

Will be interesting to hear if this works for others.

Bet ur glad that's sorted

 

[vfpcoder]

Silverballs,

What happens now when you launch the DX11 version of TPA? Does the playfield appear in the proper monitor?

 

[seattlemark]

Silverballs,

Congratulations!! I can't remember- Do you have a separate DMD device, or are you having both your DMD and Backglass sharing what you are above calling the "Backglass Monitor"? Also, how do you have them configured on the Cabinet panel of the TPA Config utility?

Will be interesting to hear if this works for others.

Unfortunately, I can't retest today as my PC is currently down.

 

[SilverBalls]

Bet ur glad that's sorted ��

Yes I am relieved this 'workaround' works now with a different cable setup, but I suspect it still might be a coding/timing issue that Farsight should try and address. ie: View 4 was working with the old cable config so what are the other views doing - someone mentioned post processing. Will be interesting to see it it works for others, or this is just a fluke for my setup... hope not.

Silverballs,

What happens now when you launch the DX11 version of TPA? Does the playfield appear in the proper monitor?

Ah man - sorry. I left home for a work trip expected to last a few days, so can't try that for you now.

Silverballs,

Congratulations!! I can't remember- Do you have a separate DMD device, or are you having both your DMD and Backglass sharing what you are above calling the "Backglass Monitor"? Also, how do you have them configured on the Cabinet panel of the TPA Config utility?

Unfortunately, I can't retest today as my PC is currently down.

Thanks. I have done all my testing of the Arcooda build since it was released with my desktop setup which has 2 monitors. For the test earlier I used the 2-screen setup and got the full 60fps. I did also try quickly switching to the 3-screen config, and then placed the DMD window on the backglass monitor (ie: on top of the backglass). It did stutter a bit but nothing like before - maybe that is because I am overlaying the DMD on the backglass though. Unfortunately I needed to leave home for a work trip, so didn't get time to play with that properly.

Incidentally my fullsize cab is packed up in the garage so I won't be testing that for a couple of months, but that has 2 monitors and a real DMD so I plan to use freezy's excellent DMDText with that when I get to it.

Luckily I did printscreen the config tabs before I left home, and meant to post them earlier. Here they are:

 

[seattlemark]

Thanks for the info. I have a question. When you say:

I have done all my testing of the Arcooda build since it was released with my desktop setup which has 2 monitors. For the test earlier I used the 2-screen setup and got the full 60fps. I did also try quickly switching to the 3-screen config, and then placed the DMD window on the backglass monitor (ie: on top of the backglass).

I am a bit unclear of how people here are doing the alternative "3-screen config" on two monitors, as opposed to the Combined version that you showed above. Are you simply changing the Cabinet's drop-down from "2-Combined DMD/Backglass" to "3-Separate DMD/Backglass" , and both ways using the exact same Backglass and DMD coordinates as you showed above? Do you need to somehow set the Windows Multiple Monitor settings differently between the two approaches? (I'm thinking probably not since there are only two physical monitors in both cases, as far as Windows is concerned.)

 

[SilverBalls]

Thanks for the info. I have a question. When you say:



I am a bit unclear of how people here are doing the alternative "3-screen config" on two monitors, as opposed to the Combined version that you showed above. Are you simply changing the Cabinet's drop-down from "2-Combined DMD/Backglass" to "3-Separate DMD/Backglass" , and both ways using the exact same Backglass and DMD coordinates as you showed above? Do you need to somehow set the Windows Multiple Monitor settings differently between the two approaches? (I'm thinking probably not since there are only two physical monitors in both cases, as far as Windows is concerned.)

Your thinking is correct no special windows config,but I will describe it for others as well in detail.

I am just changing the drop-down. From what I understand the 3 screen option just tells TPA to render a separate movable window for the DMD which we can position anywhere. With 2 screens we can still use that but we can position it on anyone of the two monitors that we have.

So basically with the settings I show in my screenshot, when I select 2-screens in the drop-down, TPA ignores the DMD co-ordinates and shows the backglass with the DMD embedded into it in fixed location determined by Farsight. When I change the drop-down to 3-screen then TPA reads my DMD co-ordinates and places DMD in that location. Because I only have 2 physical monitors I position the separate DMD window on the second physical screen which also displays the backglass.

 

[gust334]

Got a response from Farsight today pointing me to this thread.

To eliminate the external monitors, cables, et al from consideration, I unplugged all of them, switched my laptop display to portrait, and launched cabinet mode.

No change in any symptom. Cabinet v1.70.27, on a single portrait display.

I can only see the playfield now (the backglass and DMD appear in miniature when using Alt-Tab) but I still have three slow-motion camera views and one view that runs full speed. TPA menus run at 6-10fps if I exit from a slow camera, full speed if I exit the table from the fast camera. Alt-Tab has no effect on FPS. Alt-Enter has no effect on FPS. I still see that the GPU and CPU have less than 10% utilization (near 5%, actually); the system fans never turn on. Alt-Tab to Notepad or any other Windows text-entry box has the same slow update rate reported earlier until I exit TPA.

SilverBalls, thanks for the suggestions and I'm glad you got it working. I'd point out that by switching your cable from DVI to HDMI, you also changed ports on your graphics card (hence the display renumbering). Do you know if your DVI cable was dual-link or single-link?

 

[SilverBalls]

Got a response from Farsight today pointing me to this thread.

To eliminate the external monitors, cables, et al from consideration, I unplugged all of them, switched my laptop display to portrait, and launched cabinet mode.

No change in any symptom. Cabinet v1.70.27, on a single portrait display.

I can only see the playfield now (the backglass and DMD appear in miniature when using Alt-Tab) but I still have three slow-motion camera views and one view that runs full speed. TPA menus run at 6-10fps if I exit from a slow camera, full speed if I exit the table from the fast camera. Alt-Tab has no effect on FPS. Alt-Enter has no effect on FPS. I still see that the GPU and CPU have less than 10% utilization (near 5%, actually); the system fans never turn on. Alt-Tab to Notepad or any other Windows text-entry box has the same slow update rate reported earlier until I exit TPA.

SilverBalls, thanks for the suggestions and I'm glad you got it working. I'd point out that by switching your cable from DVI to HDMI, you also changed ports on your graphics card (hence the display renumbering). Do you know if your DVI cable was dual-link or single-link?

Sorry to hear it didn't work for you - so it may have been a fluke for me. My cable was a DVI-D Single-link (re: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface)

 

[SilverBalls]

Silverballs,

What happens now when you launch the DX11 version of TPA? Does the playfield appear in the proper monitor?

Hi vfpcoder - My work trip was shorted than expected so I came back home this morning. I tried launching the DX11 Normal version and can confirm that the playfield launches on the incorrect monitor (ie: on Monitor 2 which has the backglass/DMD in the cab version).

 

[SilverBalls]

Started running slow again! But needed to do another thing.

I started up the PC this morning to do some more testing. After doing an Alt-Tab I no longer was getting 60fps with the '3D' views. I was getting a quite high 51-55 fps but the game was again not playable due to a jittery ball. I was using MM, AFM and the Dr Who tables. There was no change made to my cables, config, etc. so this was bizarre.

I tried disabling Avast (there is an option to disable it for a short period so I used 10 mins), and then a smooth 60fps came back. During my testing yesterday Avast was on (is fact I never normally disable it). After 10 mins the FPS dropped again when Avast re-enabled itself. If I look at the Avast processes in he task manager they are showing 0% CPU utilisation.

So in summary to get the DX11 Cab build to run smoothly using the 3 '3D' I needed to disable Avast and change to an HDMI cable for the playfield monitor. Important Note though that for the DX11 Cab build, the flat view 4 was working smoothly at 60fps with the old DVI cable AND with Avast running.

Alt-Tab has no effect on FPS. Alt-Enter has no effect on FPS. I still see that the GPU and CPU have less than 10% utilization (near 5%, actually)

Another observation I made today. When I launch the TPA cab version, BEFORE I alt-tab the table is running at about 35-40 fps. The TPA EXE CPU usage is at a steady 14-15%. After Alt-Tabbing the TPA CPU usage goes to a steady 24-25%. I guess this is what gives me the extra FPS's needed for smooth ball movement.

For you gust334, the alt-tab doesn't do this, but your CPU is clearly being under-utilised. I have no idea what it is, but maybe what I observe with the CPU may give FS some ideas.

 

[vfpcoder]

Hi vfpcoder - My work trip was shorted than expected so I came back home this morning. I tried launching the DX11 Normal version and can confirm that the playfield launches on the incorrect monitor (ie: on Monitor 2 which has the backglass/DMD in the cab version).

I was afraid that would be the case. I have not been able to properly launch the DX11 version of TPA for about two weeks now (since the second cabinet build). It consisently places the playfield in the backglass monitor. The DX9 version launches just fine, but at this point I can’t stand to play that version. I’m not having any performance issues with the latest cabinet build, but not being able to properly launch the DX11 version means I essentially have no way to play tables like “Ripley’s”, “Paragon”, “Sorceror”, “Banzai Run”, etc. which currently have no cabinet support. *sigh*
Sure wish FarSight could fix this!

 

[gust334]

I tried disabling Avast (there is an option to disable it for a short period so I used 10 mins), and then a smooth 60fps came back. During my testing yesterday Avast was on (is fact I never normally disable it). After 10 mins the FPS dropped again when Avast re-enabled itself. If I look at the Avast processes in he task manager they are showing 0% CPU utilisation.

I see something similar with McAffee Live VirusScan, reported 27-June.
Enabled, the slow cameras are 6-10fps, and CPU hovers around 25%.
Disabled, the slow cameras are in the mid-40s, and CPU hovers below 10%.

Still can't get the slow cameras to run at the speed of the fast camera, even without AV software. If the GPU was working hard, I could accept that it doesn't have the horsepower to run the game. But the GPU and CPU never go over 25%. I have a fair number of other Steam games that can make this laptop work hard enough turn on the system fans... as presently coded, TPA isn't one of them.

 

[SilverBalls]

I see something similar with McAffee Live VirusScan, reported 27-June.
Enabled, the slow cameras are 6-10fps, and CPU hovers around 25%.
Disabled, the slow cameras are in the mid-40s, and CPU hovers below 10%.

Still can't get the slow cameras to run at the speed of the fast camera, even without AV software. If the GPU was working hard, I could accept that it doesn't have the horsepower to run the game. But the GPU and CPU never go over 25%. I have a fair number of other Steam games that can make this laptop work hard enough turn on the system fans... as presently coded, TPA isn't one of them.

[MENTION=3799]FlippyFloppy[/MENTION] / Farsight:

Some questions / thoughts....

1. Isn't this pretty significant? For the slow views we have Two different anti-virus programs limiting 2 things... ie:The amount of CPU TPA utilises for it's process and the FPS (the latter being most likely a result of the CPU being constrained).

2. Why is this? -for the slow views are temporary files being created which is triggering the anti-virus? Although I note that avast CPU usage is at 0% when this behaviour exhibits itself.

3. Do others with slow performance in those views use anti-virus software? Maybe the VPCabs which run fast don't.

4. Do Arcooda cabs which run fast us anti-virus software?

5. Do Farsight use anti-virus software in their PCs that have fast performance in the 3D views?


Apart from this as gust334 says the hardware is really under utilised particularly the graphics cards. My fans also stay off.

 

[seattlemark]

[MENTION=3799]FlippyFloppy[/MENTION] / Farsight:

Some questions / thoughts....

1. Isn't this pretty significant? For the slow views we have Two different anti-virus programs limiting 2 things... ie:The amount of CPU TPA utilises for it's process and the FPS (the latter being most likely a result of the CPU being constrained).

2. Why is this? -for the slow views are temporary files being created which is triggering the anti-virus? Although I note that avast CPU usage is at 0% when this behaviour exhibits itself.

3. Do others with slow performance in those views use anti-virus software? Maybe the VPCabs which run fast don't.

4. Do Arcooda cabs which run fast us anti-virus software?

5. Do Farsight use anti-virus software in their PCs that have fast performance in the 3D views?


Apart from this as gust334 says the hardware is really under utilised particularly the graphics cards. My fans also stay off.

For anti-virus/anti-malware, I typically run Avast, along with Malwarebytes (the version of Malwarebytes that does Real Time protection). I ran some tests using the Cab Beta. When I leave both Avast and Malwarebytes in their enabled (fully protect) mode, I am getting a FPS around 35 for views 1-3 (with view 4 at 60). When I disable either one of the software products I go up to around 42 fps in views 1-3. When I disable both off them, I go up to around 52. I haven't been able to get to 60 in views 1-3 regardless of what I have tried so far.

Additional note: The Alt-Tab tip that Silverballs discussed is necessary for me as well. If I don't Alt-Tab the one time, I can't get it to the low 50s in views 1-3.

 

[GAH1068]

For anti-virus/anti-malware, I typically run Avast, along with Malwarebytes (the version of Malwarebytes that does Real Time protection). I ran some tests using the Cab Beta. When I leave both Avast and Malwarebytes in their enabled (fully protect) mode, I am getting a FPS around 35 for views 1-3 (with view 4 at 60). When I disable either one of the software products I go up to around 42 fps in views 1-3. When I disable both off them, I go up to around 52. I haven't been able to get to 60 in views 1-3 regardless of what I have tried so far.

Additional note: The Alt-Tab tip that Silverballs discussed is necessary for me as well. If I don't Alt-Tab the one time, I can't get it to the low 50s in views 1-3.

My system runs Kaspersky but i have it set to exclude the C:\Program Files (X64)\Steam\SteamApps\Common folder as well as my C:\Pinball directory where all my other Virtual Pinball systems are installed. It might be worthwhile for those seeing AV affect performance to do the same.

The latest version .27 is running well on my system. I do get the black screen on startup that I have to Alt-Tab a few times to get it to come to focus. From there game play speed is fine.

 

[gust334]

When I leave both Avast and Malwarebytes in their enabled (fully protect) mode, I am getting a FPS around 35 for views 1-3 (with view 4 at 60).

Would you be willing to try an experiment? First, run NotePad, then launch TPA and set a table to slow camera. While TPA is slow, Alt-Tab back to NotePad and hold down some key so it autorepeats, and watch what happens when you release. Then exit TPA, and again hold down some key so it autorepeats.

In my system, I see that NotePad can't keep up with keystrokes when a slow camera is selected (keystrokes are buffered and eventually appear), but recovers fully once TPA exits. With the fast camera selected, there are no obvious issues with text entry.

Caveat, my TPA slow cameras run at 6-10fps, so it might not be obvious four times faster with your 35fps.

(Doesn't have to be NotePad, could be WordPad, Word, Notepad++, Excel, really any program that lets you type text.)

 

[Doombrowski]

Okay, i’ve been messing with mine for a while and finally got things running at 60fps on all views. At first turning off antivirus didn’t do anything for me. What i did that worked was this: turned off antivirus. Reinstalled the same gpu drivers with the antivirus off. Restarted the system and turned off antivirus again (it turns itself back on when the system is restarted.) then, run cabinet mode. i get 60fps in all views. I have AVG antivirus btw.

For some reason my playfield screen is a little funny though. when i start cabinet mode now it doesn’t show up. the other two screens show up fine. but if i alt tab, it appears. Then if i alt enter it goes back to full screen and i can see everything fine. At least i can run at 60fps now.

 

[seattlemark]

My system runs Kaspersky but i have it set to exclude the C:\Program Files (X64)\Steam\SteamApps\Common folder as well as my C:\Pinball directory where all my other Virtual Pinball systems are installed. It might be worthwhile for those seeing AV affect performance to do the same.

Good suggestion, but it did not help in my case. I excluded both C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\PinballArcade and C:\Users\{my local username}\My Games\Pinball Arcade, in both Avast and in Malwarebytes, and I still had slowdowns in views 1-3 to around 35fps.

Would you be willing to try an experiment? First, run NotePad, then launch TPA and set a table to slow camera. While TPA is slow, Alt-Tab back to NotePad and hold down some key so it autorepeats, and watch what happens when you release. Then exit TPA, and again hold down some key so it autorepeats.

In my system, I see that NotePad can't keep up with keystrokes when a slow camera is selected (keystrokes are buffered and eventually appear), but recovers fully once TPA exits. With the fast camera selected, there are no obvious issues with text entry.

Caveat, my TPA slow cameras run at 6-10fps, so it might not be obvious four times faster with your 35fps.

(Doesn't have to be NotePad, could be WordPad, Word, Notepad++, Excel, really any program that lets you type text.)

I have tried the experiment. I could not see any slowdown in Notepad. (But like you said, that might not be obvious in my case with my 35fps verses your 6-10fps situation.)

 

[seattlemark]

When I have Resource Monitor open (triggered from Window 7's Task Monitor Performance tab), I do see a percentage CPU difference change in the two cases. When views 1-3 are having slow camera views, I see the CPU percentage going up by around 8% over the amount of when view 4 is being used. But it's still only at around 23%, so that's probably why Notepad was running fine during the experiment.