Attn: Farsight Representatives

[WildWingMafia]

Soluzar - You asked me how my experience equates with hundreds of dollars?

Here we go:

iOS
Star Trek: $7.99 (with pro)
Twilight Zone: $7.99 (with pro)
Scared Stiff and Big Shot: $7.98 (with pro for Scared Stiff)
Elvira and the Party Monsters/No Good Gofers: $4.99
Taxi and Harley Davidson: $4.99
Creature From The Black Lagoon and Black Knight: $4.99
Monster Bash and Gorgar: $4.99
FunHouse and Circqus Voltaire: $4.99
Medieval Madness and Bride of Pin-Bot: $7.99 (with pro for Medieval Madness)
Tales of The Arabian Nights (pro menu) : $1.99
Original Game Price: $(escapes me now but it wasn't .99 - I seem to remember $9.99. If Im wrong, Im only off by a few bucks.

Total of $68.88

Now my iPad does not use the same sign-in username as my iPhone. So there's another $68.88.

Add to this the few times that my iPad or iPhone just simply would not recognize that I had already purchased a table, and after re-booting and re-signing in and crossing my fingers and burying a cat in a graveyard at midnight it still didn't work, I finally just said, "screw it" and purchased the table again. (FarSight's fault. Not mine.) So let's say another $10.00 or so there.

XBOX 360:
Original Game: $10
Medieval Madness and Bride of Pin-Bot: $5
Cirqus Voltaire and FunHouse: $5
Gorgar and Monster Bash: $5

Total of $25.00

PS3:
Original Game: $9.99
Harley Davidson and Taxi: $4.99
Elvira and The Party Monsters and No Good Gofers: $4.99
Creature From The Black Lagoon and Black Knight: $4.99
Gorgar and Monster Bash: $4.99
Circus Voltaire and FunHouse: $4.99
Medieval Madness and Bride of Pinbot: $4.99

Total of $39.93

MAC:
Original Game: $9.99
Star Trek: TNG (with pro) $7.99
Twilight Zone (with pro) $7.99
Scared Stiff and Big Shot: $4.99
Elvira and the Party Monsters and No Good Gofers: $4.99
Black Knight and Creature From The Black Lagoon: $4.99
Taxi and Harley Davidson: $4.99
Gorgar and Monster Bash: $4.99
FunHouse and Cirqus Voltaire: $4.99
Medieval Madness and Bride of Pinbot: $4.99

Total of $60.90

Approximate grand total across all platforms? $273.59

Now did I have to spend $273.59? No. Did I have to get everything that was available across all platforms? No. Why did I? A couple of reasons-

1. I really wanted to support FarSight and help them succeed so Pinball Arcade would be around for a long time and not die off.

2. The glaring inconsistencies across all platforms. The game looks different on iPad than it does on PS3 than it does on Xbox. Xbox plays better, iPad has the most tables. PS3 does a good job with lighting. They're all slightly different experiences and I keep hoping to find the best one where FarSight nailed it.

But not anymore. Until I can have a mostly bug-free experience where my purchases are always available and where answers to questions that are forced upon me (such as - "how do I play in portrait mode rather than landscape?" - which is STILL a trick depending on when you have to hit your lock/switch button inside of the game) are answered in the update literature or through an email or on the home screen the first time I log in, I'm done.

The big problems- the tables vanishing, that sort of thing, is not exclusive to the mobile platforms. Simply read this recent example from a PS3 forum:

------
"So now my PS3 Pinball Arcade won't launch, goes to a black screen, and forces me to do a hard system reset. Have tried it 4 times now, same thing every time. Tried running it in every resolution I can, 1080, 720...nothing. Uninstalled and re-downloaded/re-installed, no difference. Black screen, hard reset. I've paid for a game that simply fails to work on every level. Nice, Farsight. Real nice.

As annoying as the table DLC delays have been on the 360...at least the game frickin' works."
------

I genuinely appreciate the help and tips I find on this forum. I appreciate suggestions from the community regarding post-processing or step by step detailed instructions on how to be able to play in portrait mode. I am grateful. I just don't understand why FarSight isn't the one explaining these things to the people who buy their product in the first place, rather than the fans who are not gettig paid to do detective work or customer support.

Better yet - I don't understand why these issues exist in a released game to begin with (especially a partially fan-funded one). THIS IS NOT A BETA! And there are some tips that I simply wont be able to take advantage of. Some of my other apps require updating to the latest OS. I cant keep the old one just so my pinball game works.

Sean - an open letter like this isn't 'over the top.' Yes TPA is a game. But it is not a hobby. It is a business. FarSight creates and provides a product and the public buys that product based on fair expectations provided by the company. You said that just because I spend money on a product doesn't give me special rights over them or make them accountable to me. Actually, Sean, in the very legal sense of what you've said, it does.

FarSight provided a product. I provided money for the product. There is an expressed contract. Legally they are accountable to me. They are required to stand behind their product. FarSight as a company are not exempt. And I hardly believe asking for a response and repairing a faulty product are special rights. There is, of course, 'caveat emptor'/buyer beware-- but in terms of malfunctioning products and unfulfilled, advertised promises, 'caveat emptor' would not be applicable regarding the case of the current state of TPA.

Sharkbear- you think I'm out of line? Look at what you wrote in your response: "...HUNDREDS OF POSTS (complaints) ON THIS BOARD IN THE PAST MONTH."

Hundreds of complaints and issues! In a month! And if 100 people actually take the time to complain, there are 1000s more that wont. They'll just walk away and spend their money elsewhere. I finally complained even though I've been dealing with broken games for the better part of a year. THIS WAS THE STRAW THAT BROKE THE CAMELS BACK. I think I've been more than patient. This is not a knee-jerk reaction. This is the result of frustration that has built and has not been addressed or relieved.

Is FarSight working on the game? Certainly. Have they fixed a few things? Sure. Have I received joy while playing the game? Of course. Does that make up for the fact that tables disappear at will? Does it make up for the fact that the games that I paid to work in a certain mode crash and are unplayable? Does it make up for the fact that plungers on some games no longer work the way they should?

And where are the things like Tournaments and Challenges that have been promised since the beginning? ("Just keep waiting for that thing we promised, sit tight for a year and the functionality you paid for will finally work" is not a way to do business.)

Think about this: If this wasn't a video game for a niche market, and the number of serious malfunctions were present in another market - say cars or appliances- there would be a recall! People would be up in arms. They'd be returning their physical goods right and left because they didn't work.

We cant return these goods. They're downloaded. And we also cant go to another manufacturer and show our disdain by purchasing a competitor's product because FarSight is really the only game in town when it comes to video game recreations of classic machines. That's not a right to release inferior products. That's a responsibility to make sure their niche market doesn't disappear.

I DO have a 'constructive' attitude. This is constructive criticism with a request for response and corrective action. Re-read my letter. I LIKE FarSight. I WANT FarSight to succeed. I gave them almost $300 bucks and I want to be able to give them more in the future! But I also want them to stand behind their product and stop releasing games that frustrate the consumer with no real "oops, we messed up, we're sorry and we'll fix it in a timely manner (read: quickly!), response.

Here's the deal: If it takes longer to get the tables out? Fine. If FarSight has to charge more money to make the thing work like it should? Fine. I'll pay it. Thats not the issue. The issue is putting out a good product to begin with. Not just an 'adequate' product. Not a 'broken' product. Not a 'it worked before why the hell doesn't it work now' product. Not a 'this will hold you over' product. Not a 'we'll get to it eventually product.' Please release a good product that I have no problem raving about to my friends and purchasing for them as gifts.

I want to give TPA 5 star ratings on the app store and forums. Look at the ratings these days. They've slipped. If FarSight continues to produce games with inherent issues, they'll slip more, and people like me, hardcore fans, won't buy any more tables or updates. That's not what I want. And I'm sure, from a BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, that's not what FarSight wants either.

Why an open letter? Because Farsight has no problem OPENLY trumpeting the new releases of tables or the start of Kickstarter campaigns. They have no problem PUBLICLY asking us to get them higher on Steam Greenlight. Where's the public response to all of the issues accompanying an experience we ALREADY paid for? In essence: "GIVE US MORE MONEY" or "HELP US EARN MORE MONEY!" is shouted. I don't even hear whispers of "WE'LL FIX WHAT YOU GAVE US MONEY FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE." ...At least not in a timely manner.

So the hope is, instead of having a bunch of angry, disappointed pinball fans disgruntled with FarSight's product saying, "Oh well. I'm just one person. They'll never listen to me or fix my issue. I'll just stop playing and move on to Visual Pinball or Future Pinball or (gasp!) Zen Pinball", instead we come together as a community. A community that LOVES and SUPPORTS FarSight with our time and treasure, but a community that bands together and says, --"Hold on. Before you release one more table or pro pack…. Before you start the new Kickstarter campaign in Q1 2013-- you've got some work to do. Fix what we paid for. Acknowledge the rushed to market product and fix it. You have no problem acknowledging the community and asking for unconventional help when you want to release Twilight Zone or ST:TNG. So acknowledge us when we say theres 50 game-breaking bugs across 20 tables that haven't been fixed yet."

If we all ***** and moan as individuals, it doesn't register as much within the community. If it doesn't register much within the community, it probably doesn't register as much with FarSight. But , as a community working together, perhaps we are vocal enough to convince FarSight to get things right and make things right.

I want Attack From Mars and Addams Family as much as the rest of you. I just want them to work when I buy them.

WWM

 

[smooverr]

I approve of this message

 

[HOW]

****Applause****

****Applause****

****Applause****

I loved VP. It had issues, sure. But it was fan produced and non-commercial.
Now-as mentioned-FS is the only game in town for (legal) recreations.
If FS fails-then someone will buy their rights and VPMForums will probably get C&D orders or something equally crappy.

Farsight-We want to help. I'd wait longer and pay more for future tables...
BUT-You HAVE to prove yourself first.
Unless you do I think you'll see your T2 KS fall flat. We'll see.

 

[night]

I approve of this message

Same here. FarSight is taking the Mickey with it's custommers.

 

[Rubicant]

I rescind my previous statement. my problem was a glitch in both email systems that prevented my reset confirmations from being sent.
Rob was a great help in getting the issue taken care of! Thanks!

 

[Sean]

Sean - an open letter like this isn't 'over the top.' Yes TPA is a game. But it is not a hobby. It is a business. FarSight creates and provides a product and the public buys that product based on fair expectations provided by the company. You said that just because I spend money on a product doesn't give me special rights over them or make them accountable to me. Actually, Sean, in the very legal sense of what you've said, it does.

FarSight provided a product. I provided money for the product. There is an expressed contract. Legally they are accountable to me. They are required to stand behind their product. FarSight as a company are not exempt. And I hardly believe asking for a response and repairing a faulty product are special rights. There is, of course, 'caveat emptor'/buyer beware-- but in terms of malfunctioning products and unfulfilled, advertised promises, 'caveat emptor' would not be applicable regarding the case of the current state of TPA.

So sue them then: you live in the "Land of Litigation" (tm) and you think you have a case. You claim to be constructive, but I fail to see how calling out the company on a forum achieves your goals. This isn't Farsight customer support and though the company has employees with accounts here you have no reasonable expectation of getting any result from this whatsoever.

I have had problems with products I've paid money for over the years and you know what I do? I mail customer support and if I don't get a reply I mail them again or pick up a phone.

Pinball Arcade is a business, but it's not your business (unless you've provided them venture capital in which case I'm even more confused by this post). As far as the people on this board are concerned, it's a game, a hobby and nothing more.

New titles released means continued revenue for them. I seriously doubt they will stop doing them just because some disgruntled buyers think they should stop and work on bugs exclusively which is a mantra I've been reading from a minority of posters since I joined this forum. It's been said before but bears repeating: unless you know how much their costs are, you don't know what their priorities need to be. This is an evolving product; until they stop updating it I don't see a bug-free future for it, but continued expansion is worth the bugs and I will continue to support it regardless.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

While I suppose I should be grateful that the OP has put some time and effort in composing an actual letter instead of a "WTF THIS GAME SUCKS FARSIDE IS IDIOTS!" rant, I'm going to have to agree with my Scottish counterpart on this one: you're trying to build a bridge too far.

FarSight provided a product. I provided money for the product. There is an expressed contract. Legally they are accountable to me. They are required to stand behind their product. FarSight as a company are not exempt. And I hardly believe asking for a response and repairing a faulty product are special rights.

FarSight licensed you a software product, which is governed by its EULA and if it's got the standard language in it (I just looked - it does), they're probably not accountable to you for much of anything. It flat out states the entire risk of the performance and quality of the app is with the user and that there is no warranty of any kind. You can't even sue them outright - the EULA has a binding arbitration clause. This is all actually perfectly normal for software licenses and is not unique to FarSight.

(And seriously, you claim to have spent $275 on multiple purchases of this software. What were you planning to tell the court or arbitration panel when they asked "if this software was defective, why did you continue purchasing multiple copies of it?")

Why an open letter? Because Farsight has no problem OPENLY trumpeting the new releases of tables or the start of Kickstarter campaigns. They have no problem PUBLICLY asking us to get them higher on Steam Greenlight. Where's the public response to all of the issues accompanying an experience we ALREADY paid for? In essence: "GIVE US MORE MONEY" or "HELP US EARN MORE MONEY!" is shouted. I don't even hear whispers of "WE'LL FIX WHAT YOU GAVE US MONEY FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE." ...At least not in a timely manner.

If you're speaking of the Kickstarter campaigns, those were to make otherwise-unfeasible tables happen. If we had not funded those licenses, TPA would have gone on, just without TZ and ST:TNG. If the upcoming Terminator 2 kickstarter should fail, I wouldn't expect that failure to send any message to FarSight other than "there was not enough consumer interest to make this table happen".

As for bug fixes, I have Bethesda's (not a small software house) Oblivion game on my PC. To make it run properly requires third-party patches (the Unofficial Oblivion Patch collection) that fix over 1800 bugs, some of them game-breaking, because Bethesda couldn't be arsed to fix them itself. It also requires a third-party mod manager so that the game doesn't screw up its own load order and therefore fail to apply said patches, and every time Steam does a client update I'm forced to do a delicate dance to get Steam to...wait for it...remember that I've purchased the Oblivion software and don't need to re-download it. I also have Skyrim. Guess what that did in the very first cutscene? It locked up until Bethesda released a patch. How did that not make it through testing?

In smaller software, I have Visual Pinball on my PC. Some days it runs. Other days it doesn't feel like it. Despite my considerable software experience (I've been coding for 17 years and can read VP's source code as easily as most of you can read English), it refuses to cooperate. Are you saying I should raise hell with its developer for wasting my time? After all, time is money.

I really wish high school education included a mandatory semester of basic software programming for all students, simply so that A) people had experience building and testing their own code and realizing that it is nowhere near as easy as most people think it is, and B) people who encounter a buggy application would have some ability to troubleshoot and/or find a workaround on their own before screaming bloody murder. If your car won't start, you don't threaten to sue Ford or Honda, you check your indicator lights, whether you have gas, etc. I don't expect anyone to get in there with a full development suite and professional-level debugging tools anymore than I expect people to repair their own car engines, but people should know how to do the equivalent of taking a quick peek under the hood with their software.

So the hope is, instead of having a bunch of angry, disappointed pinball fans disgruntled with FarSight's product saying, "Oh well. I'm just one person. They'll never listen to me or fix my issue. I'll just stop playing and move on to Visual Pinball or Future Pinball or (gasp!) Zen Pinball", instead we come together as a community. A community that LOVES and SUPPORTS FarSight with our time and treasure, but a community that bands together and says, --"Hold on. Before you release one more table or pro pack…. Before you start the new Kickstarter campaign in Q1 2013-- you've got some work to do. Fix what we paid for. Acknowledge the rushed to market product and fix it. You have no problem acknowledging the community and asking for unconventional help when you want to release Twilight Zone or ST:TNG. So acknowledge us when we say theres 50 game-breaking bugs across 20 tables that haven't been fixed yet."

If we all ***** and moan as individuals, it doesn't register as much within the community. If it doesn't register much within the community, it probably doesn't register as much with FarSight. But , as a community working together, perhaps we are vocal enough to convince FarSight to get things right and make things right.

FarSight has 10 or 11 accounts on these forums, some more active than others. At least 2 of them (Mike Reitmeyer and Ryan Routon) are on here almost every day; they're up to 600 or 700 posts between them. In addition the management (and Pin Wiz) have other ways of communicating with FarSight directly. So yes, we register on FarSight's radar. Something else to keep in mind: time spent communicating with us, while certainly appreciated, is time they can't spend fixing issues.

Speaking as a developer of other software: Don't ***** and moan. File bug reports instead. Developers can do something with a bug report, we can't do much with moaning. And I can tell you that when a developer goes through his/her bug tracking database (yes, FarSight does have one) and sees an entry with "Reported occurrences: 100", that bug tends to have a short life expectancy.

 

[Soluzar]

Soluzar - You asked me how my experience equates with hundreds of dollars?

Approximate grand total across all platforms? $273.59

Now did I have to spend $273.59? No. Did I have to get everything that was available across all platforms? No.

I admit, I totally underestimated your dedication. Personally I've bought every table for iPad, but not all the Pro Packs, and several tables for PS3. That's my whole spend, which might just about reach a hundred dollars when I've finished getting the PS3 tables.

 

[spoonman]

This is how complaints and constructive criticism is done.
I have to agree with most of it.

PS3/iOS/Kindle versions + ALL DLC purchased.

I will continue to buy DLC and support Farsight, but I hope they are getting the message.

 

[DaPinballWizard]

And I thought some of my posts were bad. Farsight keep doing what you are doing. It is like crack. I have never played ANY games as much. The bugs are frustrating but understandable. As long as they are dealt with eventually, it's all good.

 

[Byte]

Just had my first taste of STTNG on Android... I want this for PS3. But I am not buying any more DLC until playability returns. The previous version was better in that way, so it can be fixed. We'll see what the next update brings.

 

[Storm Chaser]

The bugs don't really bother me as much as the responses from FarSight. I myself got all my high-scores reset (including all goals) and got virtually nothing from the support. After two emails they just stopped responding. These issues has taken a lot of fun out of the game since I (a) can't trust the game to save scores etc (b) can't trust the support to actually care about major issues.

It just really frustrates me that they can use the monopoly over my pinball addiction. I really hope there will be a competitior soon so FS can clean up their act and start answering support emails.

 

[Mark W**a]

A fix for through the flipper issue is coming. That alone is like, a gigantic, monsterous update that is going to make the game 1000% better. Seriously something that has haunted this game since it's release.

Next is Xbox DLC. It's finally coming.

Those two pieces of information have me giddier than a kid on Christmas eve. So I'm happy with Farsight right now. Very happy.

Work out the rest of the table bugs, keep doing what you do, and I'm a happy camper. I'm not defending Farsight but they are a small dev that has the game on way too many platforms. For what it's worth I don't think too many devs that size could have done what they have done and been as speedy and as vocal with the community as they have been. I recently played Black Hole and I was blown away that they actually went back and improved it a ton, that's a launch table folks, and the least popular ones. Also we're at 20 tables now in the first year. Look at the positive side of what they've done and continue to do, and just enjoy Christmas.

 

[Hinph]

Yeah, I echo that sentiment... they are a small studio working on a niche genre. They don't have the resources of Nintendo or Activision, and this game isn't raking in big money like Call of Duty or Super Mario. For the most part, I've been very pleased with the game despite its issues.

I have no idea what the financial situation is over at Farsight, but I have to believe that they are doing the best that they can with the money they are working with. Hopefully the game can eventually find an audience large enough to help Farsight hire more people and get the project living up to its full potential.

 

[LordKthulu]

I love The Pinball Arcade, but I have to admit that I'm getting frustrated now..
I supported both Twillight Zone and Star Trek TNG Kickstarter at around $75 each.
The menu issue that began with the logons and access to the tables has really annoyed me

My solution, just pay for them.. but for some reason I've been charged for the Twilight Zone pro menu twice..

So, I'll continue to support this wonderful product but bypass the kickstarters until they sort their issues out.

I really hope FarSight start hearing our frustration because this is not seething pit of crap slinging that is Facebook.

Fantastic work on Star Trek - TNG guys

But please devote some more time to quality control and testing.. It would be nice to see a fix for Circus Voltaire

 

[MadScience2006]

t would be nice to see a fix for Circus Voltaire

Yes indeed!

 

[nimitz]

So sue them then: you live in the "Land of Litigation" (tm) and you think you have a case. You claim to be constructive, but I fail to see how calling out the company on a forum achieves your goals. This isn't Farsight customer support and though the company has employees with accounts here you have no reasonable expectation of getting any result from this whatsoever.

This actually achieves a lot more than simply sending it to customer support who will likely disregard it as an isolated case, here it might end up making enough noise to get farsight to understand that there is an actual issue here.

Pinball Arcade is a business, but it's not your business (unless you've provided them venture capital in which case I'm even more confused by this post). As far as the people on this board are concerned, it's a game, a hobby and nothing more.

Ok, so with that logic you cannot hold anyone responsible for a defective or not as advertised product as long as it falls into the category of entertainment because hey, it's only for fun. In the real world, when you pay a company/organisation/individual money you expect something "valuable" in return, the final use or purpose of said product/service is completely irrelevant.

New titles released means continued revenue for them. I seriously doubt they will stop doing them just because some disgruntled buyers think they should stop and work on bugs exclusively which is a mantra I've been reading from a minority of posters since I joined this forum. It's been said before but bears repeating: unless you know how much their costs are, you don't know what their priorities need to be. This is an evolving product; until they stop updating it I don't see a bug-free future for it, but continued expansion is worth the bugs and I will continue to support it regardless.

Obviously it makes more sense for farsight to keep doing whatever lets them stay in business. The point being made here is if the product is in such a state that the core fanbase stops buying they are left with a very different type of market, one which might very well be sustainable, but the end result might (unfortunately) be a game that serious pinball fans are not interested in.

 

[Tony C]

Wild Wing Mafia, you can use multiple ID's on an individual device in iTunes. That alone would have saved you some cash.

 

[DarkAkatosh]

Is it just me or is all this doom and gloom massively overstated? Bugs or no bugs, pinball fans LOVE pinball and are going to support FS to the bitter end because of what they do. They're the only company in the world that digitizes pinball machines to the last little niggle. And let's not count the VPs of the world because they don't recreate to nowhere near the degree FS does. Plus they're not actual companies, just designers that do recreations in their free time

 

[Byte]

@Mark - can't wait for that update you are describing, and apply to all tables!