Best Table with Worst License and Worst Table with Best License?

[Bowflex]

How about bad license, bad machine?

As far as shadow goes, I think it is a great license in general, just the movie could have been a lot better. I don't find it as bad as most people but it isn't fantastic either

 

[Nightwing]

How about bad license, bad machine?

As far as shadow goes, I think it is a great license in general, just the movie could have been a lot better. I don't find it as bad as most people but it isn't fantastic either

I agree with you on The Shadow. I liked the film,though it could have been better. Table is fantastic.

I also agree about The Avengers pin. Not a big fan...

 

[karl]

Regarding The Shadow: The pin makes the movie. I find that I enjoy the movie more after playing the pin. Even before the movie was released Brian Eddy knew how to make all the cheesy lines in the script fun. It is the only pin I know of that makes me want to watch a mediocre movie after playing pinball

 

[Espy]

Further "proof"... at my arcade, before it shut down, there was never more than one unlicensed pin there at one time. Obviously my operator had to make money, and he found through trial and error that licensed pins work better. No real getting around that.

 

[kinggo]

OK, so another theory......... if it is all about marketing and atracting the new or ocassional players does that mean that none of them ever becomes a regular and that the whole thing is not sustainable with regular players but it is driven by the cassual ones?

 

[Kolchak357]

I will play the cooler license first (guilty), but if I don't enjoy it (Avatar for example), I won't play it for long. And the second time I see Avatar it will be basically ignored by me. And I will always play a pin I love, especially if I haven't seen it in a long time (licensed or not).

 

[DanBradford]

Further "proof"... at my arcade, before it shut down, there was never more than one unlicensed pin there at one time. Obviously my operator had to make money, and he found through trial and error that licensed pins work better. No real getting around that.

two games that regularly feature in top 5 lists of favourite pinballs are Attack From Mars (unlicensed) and Medieval Madness (unlicensed). then there's Theatre of Magic and Tales of The Arabian Nights, and Revenge From Mars and Fish Tales and Cirqus Voltaire, and Funhouse and White Water and Scared Stiff and Cactus Canyon and High Speed II and No Good Gofers and Black Knight and Whirlwind and Roadshow. Not a license between the lot of them.

i didn't just pick these out of a hat either, i just looked at the recent ipdb top 30 - around half of the most popular pins were new inventions without an established theme.

much rarer these days of course, but that's another story

 

[Richard B]

two games that regularly feature in top 5 lists of favourite pinballs are Attack From Mars (unlicensed) and Medieval Madness (unlicensed). then there's Theatre of Magic and Tales of The Arabian Nights, and Revenge From Mars and Fish Tales and Cirqus Voltaire, and Funhouse and White Water and Scared Stiff and Cactus Canyon and High Speed II and No Good Gofers and Black Knight and Whirlwind and Roadshow. Not a license between the lot of them.

i didn't just pick these out of a hat either, i just looked at the recent ipdb top 30 - around half of the most popular pins were new inventions without an established theme.

much rarer these days of course, but that's another story

Scared Stiff and Red and Ted's Roadshow both have personality licenses: Elvira in the former, and Carlene Carter in the latter, which also features a song performed by her. While it's smart business to go with established, popular themes, there's many out there (such as Roger Sharpe) who believe unlicensed tables could succeed in today's market, and there's several upstart pinball companies out there willing to bet on this by releasing tables that are either unlicensed, or have old or less-expensive licenses (like Predator).

 

[Shaneus]

Further "proof"... at my arcade, before it shut down, there was never more than one unlicensed pin there at one time. Obviously my operator had to make money, and he found through trial and error that licensed pins work better. No real getting around that.

More than likely that's because there aren't any unlicensed games that Stern makes and Stern are the only decent-sized manufacturer making machines. Any unlicensed games likely would've been the odd token old machine.
What percentage of games were "new" Stern vs. 90s/80s machines?

 

[Biff]

Pat Lawlor often answers why licensing is important for Stern nowadays.

http://www.pinballnews.com/games/nascar/index3.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/112594/Interview_Lawlor_On_Modern_Pinball_Market_Small_Team_Creativity.php

 

[Richard B]

Lawlor is right - instant recognition and surface appearance are what matters to people today. Advertising and the media are so good at manipulating people, it's bordering on mind control.

 

[Espy]

two games that regularly feature in top 5 lists of favourite pinballs are Attack From Mars (unlicensed) and Medieval Madness (unlicensed). then there's Theatre of Magic and Tales of The Arabian Nights, and Revenge From Mars and Fish Tales and Cirqus Voltaire, and Funhouse and White Water and Scared Stiff and Cactus Canyon and High Speed II and No Good Gofers and Black Knight and Whirlwind and Roadshow. Not a license between the lot of them.

i didn't just pick these out of a hat either, i just looked at the recent ipdb top 30 - around half of the most popular pins were new inventions without an established theme.

much rarer these days of course, but that's another story

You're missing my point. All these lists you point to are decided on by pinball fans, not your average joe.

More than likely that's because there aren't any unlicensed games that Stern makes and Stern are the only decent-sized manufacturer making machines. Any unlicensed games likely would've been the odd token old machine.
What percentage of games were "new" Stern vs. 90s/80s machines?

Before it close down it was 6:2. And the 2 were TMNT (which is still a pretty "relevant" license) and Raven...

My pinball operator is keeping the scene alive in my city, but he strongly prefers Stern/SEGA/DE for some reason. He only has one WMS on-site that I know of.

 

[Richard B]

You're missing my point. All these lists you point to are decided on by pinball fans, not your average joe.



Before it close down it was 6:2. And the 2 were TMNT (which is still a pretty "relevant" license) and Raven...

My pinball operator is keeping the scene alive in my city, but he strongly prefers Stern/SEGA/DE for some reason. He only has one WMS on-site that I know of.

Could be cost: a collector was telling me that WMS machines command a premium in the market.

 

[Espy]

Could be cost: a collector was telling me that WMS machines command a premium in the market.

Not compared to an LE Stern. Unless you're going after Medieval Madness, WMS would be far cheaper.

 

[ER777]

Scared Stiff and Red and Ted's Roadshow both have personality licenses: Elvira in the former, and Carlene Carter in the latter, which also features a song performed by her. While it's smart business to go with established, popular themes, there's many out there (such as Roger Sharpe) who believe unlicensed tables could succeed in today's market, and there's several upstart pinball companies out there willing to bet on this by releasing tables that are either unlicensed, or have old or less-expensive licenses (like Predator).

I think this game Wrath of Olympus and America's Most Haunted (which feels like a good late 80s machine in terms of gameplay) will end up being great examples to prove those people like Roger Sharpe correct. I played the prototype of WOOLY at Pinfest and it was amazing. The art is phenomenal and the playfield layout is really cool.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wrath-of-olympus-original-custom-pinball-development

 

[Shaneus]

I think this game Wrath of Olympus and America's Most Haunted (which feels like a good late 80s machine in terms of gameplay) will end up being great examples to prove those people like Roger Sharpe correct. I played the prototype of WOOLY at Pinfest and it was amazing. The art is phenomenal and the playfield layout is really cool.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wrath-of-olympus-original-custom-pinball-development

You bastard. I love that table.

 

[Kolchak357]

I think this game Wrath of Olympus and America's Most Haunted (which feels like a good late 80s machine in terms of gameplay) will end up being great examples to prove those people like Roger Sharpe correct. I played the prototype of WOOLY at Pinfest and it was amazing. The art is phenomenal and the playfield layout is really cool.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wrath-of-olympus-original-custom-pinball-development

Played Olympus at Pinfest as well. Very impressive indeed. So much to do on that pin, really gives it so much replay value. Can't imagine getting bored with it.

 

[kinggo]

This table looks like a ton of fun. And that again brings me to the point of how meaningless licence is actually. I don't like greek mythology at all, but this, I could play again and again.

 

[ER777]

You bastard. I love that table.

I'm on his interest list, if he does a production run (which I think is likely someday) I will have a chance to buy one. I could definitely see doing it.

 

[Metalzoic]

I'm on his interest list, if he does a production run (which I think is likely someday) I will have a chance to buy one. I could definitely see doing it.

This table looks incredible! It does seem a bit weird that it doesn't have a single toy on it though. Still the use of flippers and intelligent ramps. Awesome, well laid out art. I'm definitely going to email him to get on the list.

In fact if the Hobbit doesn't start shaping up better I may just refund my payment and put it on this or Lawlers game instead.