Can We Be Done With The Gottlieb Premiers Now?

[HotHamBoy]

Visual Pinball isn't on my iPad or game consoles.

Farsight is the only game in town as far as recreations go. (I also own all the Zaccaria tables)

I understand what you're saying but none of us here know what contracts are like with Williams, Stern, Bally, Gottlieb, etc. As has been said in other places is the reason we see more Premiers right now because the Williams contract is running out? We don't know. We also don't know the first thing about licensing costs when it comes to Premier tables (Freddy and Stargate). And until the time comes when we do, I say don't bite the hand that feeds.

I'm fortunate to live in a city that has a lot of pinball around but I still use TPA nearly every day. Here in Melbourne, each game on a pinball machine costs $2 (or 3 for $5 on a Stern) so I'll generally go out on a Friday and spend $20 plus a couple drinks. $20 plus a couple drinks is essentially the same price to me as a season of TPA in which I get unlimited plays for the rest of my life. So give me Premiers, give me Williams, Bally, Stern, I don't care. Just give me a new pinball game to play every month.

That's a bit like comparing the relative value and experience of a DLC Ferarri in Forza to a real Ferrari.

As far as what we know or don't know, that's 100% on Farsight for never communicating with their fans. Let us know the why for's and we won't be left speculating the worst.

 

[shutyertrap]

As an avowed Premiere hater, this news really saddens me. I had such high hopes for this season (season of sports!), and much like season 2 the mere existence of crappy Gottlieb Premiere tables just makes me think down on the season.

What's funny is that Indy 500, EBD, and Dr Who make me happy. I am just fine with Centigrade and Jacks. Hell, I'd be fine with an entire season of Gottlieb EMs, especially if they were tuned to play like actual EMs.

Big Hurt is okay (I guess), but Bone Busters just taints everything. It's Goin' Nuts and Class of 1812 all over. Having a 3rd Premiere table in one season is loathsome. The only way to salvage the season is to have Rollergames, NBA Fastbreak, and Banzai Run finish us out, and we know that won't happen with AG Soccer looming to take one of those slots. On the bright side, assuming this is FS preparing a new contract with WMS, we might get a flood of System 11 machines with the next season.

I'll also say this regarding the ratio of Premiere tables to all the others...I go into a lot of collector's homes here in SoCal to play pinball. I see mostly Wiliams and Bally machines, as well as modern Stern. A few have Data East tables and JJP. What you don't see is Premiere, because with limited space and money to spend, why would you? With The Pinball Arcade, space isn't an issue, and I'm not too concerned with their money. What I am concerned about is how many seasons they continue for. If we knew 3 more seasons were on the way, news of yet another Premiere table wouldn't sting so much, but it's the uncertainty we fans have that makes this feel like a deeper cut rather than a mere scratch. Again with the bright side, if this is a contract thing, FS and WMS have been agreeing to 20 tables at a time, so we could be looking at a guaranteed 2-3 more seasons if this is the case.

God I had looking for silver linings.

 

[gordonabrown]

Visual Pinball isn't on my iPad or game consoles.

Farsight is the only game in town as far as recreations go. (I also own all the Zaccaria tables)


That's a bit like comparing the relative value and experience of a DLC Ferarri in Forza to a real Ferrari.

As far as what we know or don't know, that's 100% on Farsight for never communicating with their fans. Let us know the why for's and we won't be left speculating the worst.

My point exactly? I don't think I'd sit there and complain about a DLC Ferrari either. "Uh, when I press the accelerator, it doesn't feel nearly like the real thing. It doesn't even turn exactly like a real one either!" I also wouldn't sit there moaning about how "x car isn't in the game yet and they keep putting in Fords!" It's a video game, people. Yes, people who collect pinball might not collect Premier, but if you go to a Pinball Hall of Fame type place (more similar to what TPA brands itself as) you'll see a whole lot of Premiers.

Why does Farsight have to tell you about their contractual situations? How do you even know they can legally do so? It's not on Farsight at all, it's on people here pretending they are entitled to know everything about a company's legal and financial involvements.

 

[Jeff Strong]

I am just fine with Centigrade and Jacks. Hell, I'd be fine with an entire season of Gottlieb EMs, especially if they were tuned to play like actual EMs.

Yes! I keep imagining what if every Premiere in TPA were a highly-rated EM instead...and the fact that we haven't seen Royal Flsuh yet is just strange. There are soooo many great 70's Gottlieb's to choose from.

 

[Heretic]

im just happy to be playin again...ive got my digital pinball archive but i like that tpa is still "living" in terms of the software and community...sorta i know im never gonna win over opinion on gottliebs thats fine and dandy but when i review or think of what we had before hand im still ermm "lovin it" all hail the bill budge? maybe i dont mind premiers so much because sometimes its all i had to play back in the day at times

 

[gordonabrown]

im just happy to be playin again...

Definitely. There's a new bar opening here which will likely have 20 - 30 machines. Looking forward to that!

 

[Fungi]

...all hail the bill budge?

Hail!

 

[Jeff Strong]

im just happy to be playin again...ive got my digital pinball archive but i like that tpa is still "living" in terms of the software and community...sorta i know im never gonna win over opinion on gottliebs thats fine and dandy but when i review or think of what we had before hand im still ermm "lovin it" all hail the bill budge? maybe i dont mind premiers so much because sometimes its all i had to play back in the day at times

Gottlieb was king in the 70's...and it's great to see that period finally getting some love. I honestly never really played any of these Premiere's as a kid in the 80's, so there's not even a nostalgia factor there for me.

 

[HotHamBoy]

My point exactly? I don't think I'd sit there and complain about a DLC Ferrari either. "Uh, when I press the accelerator, it doesn't feel nearly like the real thing. It doesn't even turn exactly like a real one either!" I also wouldn't sit there moaning about how "x car isn't in the game yet and they keep putting in Fords!" It's a video game, people. Yes, people who collect pinball might not collect Premier, but if you go to a Pinball Hall of Fame type place (more similar to what TPA brands itself as) you'll see a whole lot of Premiers.

Why does Farsight have to tell you about their contractual situations? How do you even know they can legally do so? It's not on Farsight at all, it's on people here pretending they are entitled to know everything about a company's legal and financial involvements.

Now you are building the straw man arguments.

1) The comparison does not regard the accuracy of digital pinball (or cars) vs real, they can never be the same. The point is that the experience is so different that relative value in price and availability doesn't even enter into it. That's silly.

2) Also, there are many, many other modern simulation racing games to choose from. What FS is doing is pretty much exclusive and that makes the table selections much more significant. If Farsight ever calls it quits there is no guarantee that another developer will pick up the torch.

3) Not one said we were entitled to information regarding the goings-on at Farsight, I simply said that if they told us something we wouldn't be here making guesses. Whether that has to do with contracts or bug fixes or future features or whatever.

@shutyertap Well said.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Yes, people who collect pinball might not collect Premier, but if you go to a Pinball Hall of Fame type place (more similar to what TPA brands itself as) you'll see a whole lot of Premiers.

You'll see a few, but not "a whole lot", especially in comparison to the majority of other stuff:

http://www.pinballmuseum.org/games.php

You will, however, see a TON of Gottlieb EMs.

 

[HotHamBoy]

You'll see a few, but not "a whole lot", especially in comparison to the majority of other stuff:

http://www.pinballmuseum.org/games.php

You will, however, see a TON of Gottlieb EMs.

I'm actually really cool with the Gottlieb EMs and I wish I could change the thread title to Premieres. I'd happily swap most of the Premieres in TPA for classic EMs.

The Jacks Open and Centigrade 37 two pack is pretty awesome and I hope we get an EM two pack every season going forward.

Still waiting for it to drop on iOS, though

 

[Xanija]

I'm actually really cool with the Gottlieb EMs and I wish I could change the thread title to Premieres.

Your wish is my command.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Your wish is my command.

Oh, thanks! I should have asked a long time ago, haha.

 

[gordonabrown]

You'll see a few, but not "a whole lot", especially in comparison to the majority of other stuff:

http://www.pinballmuseum.org/games.php

You will, however, see a TON of Gottlieb EMs.

Thanks for the post, mate! I always enjoy when someone accidentally proves my argument.

13% of the machines at the Pinball Hall of Fame are Premiers. Funny how that's the same percentage as in TPA. Furthermore, the Hall, unlike TPA, has no contractual issues on which to base their table purchases. So again, stop whinging?

We all know that Premiers aren't great tables, they are nowhere near as good as Williams and Bally tables and we would all prefer having Williams and Bally tables but there's no sense in being dramatic about your tastes or what is/isn't included in this game. At the end of the day it's not up to you. If you don't like it, don't play it, don't buy it, but the endless whinging month after month on this forum is simply tiresome and tedious.

 

[codinghorror]

My objection isn't Gottlieb or whatever, it's that I've never heard of these tables. Bone Busters was also a cheap knock-off of GhostBusters, which gives it a kind of .. hinky feel.

My objection is this: I'd definitely prefer if Farsight could target more tables on the top 300 list.

http://www.ipdb.org/lists.cgi?anonymously=true&list=top300

My browser search (when I use F12 tools to delete the EM list from the page..) says there are 49 Gottleib tables in the top 300. Interestingly, some of the top hits we already have: Black Hole, Big Hurt, Haunted House, Class of 1812, Rescue 911, Lights Camera Action, Cue Ball Wizard... But no Stargate and that's the highest one in the list for Gottleib!

In the top 300:

- Bally 76
- Williams 69
- Stern 58
- Gottleib 49
- Data East 22
- Capcom 4
- Zaccaria 2

Of course neither Bone Busters or Gladiator are anywhere on this top 300 list

 

[Kolchak357]

I assume that if Stargate didn't have a license we'd already have seen it.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Thanks for the post, mate! I always enjoy when someone accidentally proves my argument.

13% of the machines at the Pinball Hall of Fame are Premiers. Funny how that's the same percentage as in TPA. Furthermore, the Hall, unlike TPA, has no contractual issues on which to base their table purchases. So again, stop whinging?

We all know that Premiers aren't great tables, they are nowhere near as good as Williams and Bally tables and we would all prefer having Williams and Bally tables but there's no sense in being dramatic about your tastes or what is/isn't included in this game. At the end of the day it's not up to you. If you don't like it, don't play it, don't buy it, but the endless whinging month after month on this forum is simply tiresome and tedious.

A huge chunk of the pins there in Vegas are EMs, so why isn't that the case in TPA? I scoff at your argument ...and 13% is certainly not "a whole lot" like you originally claimed...

Maybe you should stop whining and about whining...funny how the cycle works lol. No one says you have to read this thread if it truly bothers you so much.

The bottom line is that people posting here just want TPA to be the best it can be. There's no harm in that. Why you would rally against people voicing those opinions doesn't make much sense to me. If Farsight wants to keep making money from this game, they'd do well to listen to what people are actually willing to pay for. The argument of "if you don't like it, don't buy it" only ends up hurting the game in the long run. If they eventually stop making new tables because sales are down, this thread could really come back to haunt us all.

 

[gordonabrown]

A huge chunk of the pins there in Vegas are EMs, so why isn't that the case in TPA? I scoff at your argument ...and 13% is certainly not "a whole lot" like you originally claimed...

Maybe you should stop whining and about whining...funny how the cycle works lol. No one says you have to read this thread if it truly bothers you so much.

The bottom line is that people posting here just want TPA to be the best it can be. There's no harm in that. Why you would rally against people voicing those opinions doesn't make much sense to me. If Farsight wants to keep making money from this game, they'd do well to listen to what people are actually willing to pay for. The argument of "if you don't like it, don't buy it" only ends up hurting the game in the long run. If they eventually stop making new tables because sales are down, this thread could really come back to haunt us all.

You're right, maybe I should just ignore the whinging on here. For the most part I do, but hey, sometimes people need to realise when they are overreacting. You can scoff all you want but you have once again proved my point by trying to argue with me. 13% is NOT A LOT. That's what I've been saying the whole time. People are here complaining about the amount of Premiers in TPA and I argued that statistically there are not a lot. You posted the Pinball Hall of Fame which I then pointed out to you has the same percentage of Premiers to which you said that's "not a lot". Thank you for agreeing with me. Statistically speaking Premiers are not over-represented in TPA. You're playing semantics and failing at it. Dig up. Am I whinging? Maybe? Moreso trying to engage in the discussion without reverting to condescension. As Mitch Hedberg once said "I'm against protesting but don't know how to show it."

Why are there not as many EMs? I have no idea and I think that's a good question. I would love to see more EMs, really enjoy playing them, and hope that the two-packs we have been getting will go a long way to rectifying that.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Yes, people who collect pinball might not collect Premier, but if you go to a Pinball Hall of Fame type place (more similar to what TPA brands itself as) you'll see a whole lot of Premiers.

Quoted for emphasis. You're the one who said there would be "a whole lot" of Premieres there, not me. Now you say there isn't. Funny how you twist your argument when it suits you.

Anyway, like I pointed out, it's apples to oranges since the rest of their lineup doesn't correlate to TPA. I've been there and met the owner and he's the kind of guy who values any pinball machine as "one of his kids" so he'll add anything to his collection and also won't get rid of anything. It's an eccentric situation, no doubt.

I can guarantee you this much: the Premieres he has certainly aren't getting nearly as many quarters dropped in them as everything else there, which is the only correlation I would make to TPA. If people don't want these pins then they aren't making Farsight the same amount of money that other stuff would. Folks can take your advice: "don't like it, don't buy it", and the studio suffers. In the long run, that's bad news for us all.

Anyways, like I said, I really don't get your passion for stopping the "whining". You say you're not being condescending, but yet you go out of your way to call people whiners. Again, if you think people are overreacting, then just move and on and don't read the thread.

 

[shutyertrap]

Well said Jeff. Also, as the very title of this thread makes it perfectly clear, this would be the spot to complain about Premiere tables. As opposed to high jacking a thread called "Premiere tables are too fun"