Capcom emulation is already a reality

[sellenoff]

For TZ, WW, CFTBL, and T2 I recorded the audio myself from my pins in the basement. I own TZ & T2, and simply burned roms for the other 2 games.
I used a direct line in to the digital recorder from the sound board directly using the modification detailed on google ( somewhere ) about getting line out from the sound board.

While you could argue the pure audio could use some post processing, I don't think much was done. It probably could use some bass and other tweaks, but that wasn't my job, someone else is in charge of audio.

So I can't imagine why you'd think the audio on those games isn't that good ( other than some crappy compression used to keep the download size low ), since you can't get a much better pull than direct from the board itself ( this is pre-amplified and pre-volume adjusted ).

I can only comment based on what I can hear, but the low sound quality doesn't affect only the DCS tables. Just compare something like TZ or BOP to the real thing. There's not much missing from the CVSD-compressed sampled voices and sound effects given their original quality, but the synthesized music should be pretty high-quality.

It may of course be that the sampling frequency isn't sufficient for pre-DCS music either - go and tell. It would seem logical to record any sound, regardless of what kind of sound system it uses, at the highest reasonable quality, say 44,1 kHz like on CD, and only after that start compressing it down, all while carefully listening to the results to avoid audible overcompression.

 

[sellenoff]

My regular full time job is doing custom database software & reporting on the desktop as well as the web. Not nearly as fun as TPA though...

Ah, that's pretty cool. I thought he got some information from pinmame but maybe it's diverged since he's actually having to use the information to code against. Like some registers you thought were correct aren't anymore - or that the ROMs used in pinmame never hit those registers, but when FreeWPC does, things went awry.

I guess I can figure out who helped you from that - I thought it would be more generic Williams people, and not specific ones, but it's good to know. I suppose the question is - could you detail the fixes? Like the playfield toy - did you simply adjust how fast you ran the emulated motor and the motions? And the other was just figuring out the proper timings? (Dang, you got me curious...).

As for DCS - I wonder if Farsight is digitizing them wrong - I'm guessing most pins work fine if you digitize the sound at 22kHz or so, but I know DCS runs at 32kHz - not quite CD quality, but fairly close. It is what makes DCS tables sound so good.

So Steve, outside of FS - I thought you were a full time employee but you mentioned you're not - what do you do with your non-TPA time?

 

[David Pannozzo]

Thanks Steve for noticing, I was just playing around with Attack from mars with 10 balls (and since I've played the real thing) I noticed that quote mostly because I live in America and just loved that sentence (Nobody Messes with the USA), so when I didn't hear it, I kinda cried. 4 of my favorite games are (and I know one of them will probably never get made, which is, The Wizard Of Oz) WOZ, Family Guy (which I really want the most), Tron Lagacy, and Rescue 911. I'm really hoping they get made someday, if not I will cry then go on with life. Talk to you soon Steve.

 

[David Pannozzo]

Steve I have to say your doing a phenomenal job with the Emulation, I really feel like I'm playing the real thing (and that's on my ipad 3). I have already pre ordered my Playstation 4, and paid it off, so November can't come any quicker. Also what's your Xbox 360 Gamertag, if you want me on yours it's WoodenPanootz the W and P are Capital the rest lowercase. If you remember I always went as panootz on the Visual pinball forums, I lost all my Visual Pinball stuff, it doesn't really matter. Ever since I updated to Windows 7 Visual Pinball never worked right, so now I have Future Pinball and The Pinball Arcade on 4 systems Playstation 3, Playstation Vita, Xbox 360, and IPad 3. I will also get it for the Playstation 4 when it comes out, I do not want the Xbox One I am not at all happy with Microsoft with it. Microsoft has to get more games and more fixes for me to buy one, well gotta go talk to you here or Facebook.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

For TZ, WW, CFTBL, and T2 I recorded the audio myself from my pins in the basement. I own TZ & T2, and simply burned roms for the other 2 games.
I used a direct line in to the digital recorder from the sound board directly using the modification detailed on google ( somewhere ) about getting line out from the sound board.

Ah, then you might know the answer to this: Why is the jackpot sound in TPA's TZ missing its treble portion compared to the sound emitted by a real machine? I don't really know how to describe it better than that, but if you play a real TZ and get a jackpot, and then play TPA TZ on an iPad, the difference is immediately apparent.

Hopefully the PC version will sound better...I know it's a minor thing, one sound effect on one table, but TZ is my favorite machine and it grates on me every time I hear the "wrong" jackpot sound.

 

[sellenoff]

I'll have to check it out, as it should sound exactly like my real one.

Ah, then you might know the answer to this: Why is the jackpot sound in TPA's TZ missing its treble portion compared to the sound emitted by a real machine? I don't really know how to describe it better than that, but if you play a real TZ and get a jackpot, and then play TPA TZ on an iPad, the difference is immediately apparent.

Hopefully the PC version will sound better...I know it's a minor thing, one sound effect on one table, but TZ is my favorite machine and it grates on me every time I hear the "wrong" jackpot sound.

 

[sellenoff]

Who's got time for gaming.. LOL!
I barely have time to get the next table done in time.

Steve I have to say your doing a phenomenal job with the Emulation, I really feel like I'm playing the real thing (and that's on my ipad 3). I have already pre ordered my Playstation 4, and paid it off, so November can't come any quicker. Also what's your Xbox 360 Gamertag, if you want me on yours it's WoodenPanootz the W and P are Capital the rest lowercase. If you remember I always went as panootz on the Visual pinball forums, I lost all my Visual Pinball stuff, it doesn't really matter. Ever since I updated to Windows 7 Visual Pinball never worked right, so now I have Future Pinball and The Pinball Arcade on 4 systems Playstation 3, Playstation Vita, Xbox 360, and IPad 3. I will also get it for the Playstation 4 when it comes out, I do not want the Xbox One I am not at all happy with Microsoft with it. Microsoft has to get more games and more fixes for me to buy one, well gotta go talk to you here or Facebook.

 

[David Pannozzo]

Well just asking, it's my way of relaxing after work, wether it's a Shooter or Platformer, or Pinball. Also to anyone who wants to play on IPad/iPhone my tag is DAVID PANNOZZO it's all in CAPS and a space in between. I already have a couple guys on my ipad 3 from the Pinball Arcade Forum, anybody else is welcome. Know I'm heading to Walmart for a little while, then stop at a place that has some pool tables, video games and one totally re-furbished Pinball Machine which is The Pirates of the Caribean. I got 50 Million on it a couple weeks ago when they finally fixed it after a year and a half, also now the Ship sinks, it didn't do that for a long time and it doesn't drain like it used to thank God.

 

[shutyertrap]

I actually miss Pac-Dude. He did come up with a lot of work-a-rounds that helped when VP was only cpu based...and his fading light system. Sorry just reminiscing.

He was my favorite VP author. I can only imagine the work-a-rounds he'd come up with for TPA were he into it.

 

[Robbied13]

He was my favorite VP author. I can only imagine the work-a-rounds he'd come up with for TPA were he into it.

Same here. It was his TZ table that helped me decide to buy a TZ pin for the house. Very well done. I have not used VP for a long while, but I do remember his contributions.

 

[superballs]

I just got a bunch of Pac-Dude's tables and I must commend him. I really like how almost useless nudging was in VP8.

 

[Worf]

You know, I don't think there's anyone who's done as much for pinball emulation as Steve... except maybe the originap wpcmame (did we ever find out who he was?). Or were they one and the same?

 

[Tuomas Hämäläinen]

So I can't imagine why you'd think the audio on those games isn't that good ( other than some crappy compression used to keep the download size low ), since you can't get a much better pull than direct from the board itself ( this is pre-amplified and pre-volume adjusted ).

Thanks for the details on sound capture. Without a doubt, the original samples you recorded using your setup should be good without any post-processing "as is" since you went directly to the sound board (the reason I was forced to use an EQ to make it sound "right" is because I used the mid-high speaker terminal for audio capture).

That leaves the "crappy compression" - it is most likely the key here. A better codec should be used or file sizes should be allowed to grow larger - IMHO this is such an important aspect of the game that it would justify waiting a few seconds longer for the tables to download.

Ah, then you might know the answer to this: Why is the jackpot sound in TPA's TZ missing its treble portion compared to the sound emitted by a real machine? I don't really know how to describe it better than that, but if you play a real TZ and get a jackpot, and then play TPA TZ on an iPad, the difference is immediately apparent.

This illustrates very well what's wrong with audio in TPA. All audio - UI and mechanical sound effects included. Just listen to the main menu music and it has the same flaws as the table-specific music/sounds.

Here's hoping for an improvement

 

[neilpinbot]

He was my favorite VP author. I can only imagine the work-a-rounds he'd come up with for TPA were he into it.

+1 for pac-dude, Loved his tables. Would be great to see him back.

 

[Krellan]

Very interesting how sound was sampled from only one speaker. That would explain the corrupted jackpot sound in TZ, among other things.

WMS used a crossover, to split the audio frequencies, even though it was mono, as you know. Some games used this effectively, to give an illusion of stereo.

Addams Family did this, when starting Multiball! The "boom boom boom boom" sound effects target each boom to the left, right, left, right speakers respectively, and the lighting effects on the game reinforce this.

This fooled me into thinking the game was really in stereo, long ago....

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.pinball/1ZhBlZ5tBe0/vA56PVTUZwcJ

If Pinball Arcade ever gets enough budget to license the TAF table, please sample the sound closer to the sound board, so that you capture all of the audio, before the crossover! Better yet, apply audio filtering during playback, to restore the crossover effect. All modern platforms have true stereo sound, and Pinball Arcade could use that effectively. As it is now, the games sound unnaturally dull when listening in headphones, because they are pure mono. At a minimum, physical sound effects like flippers could be somewhat localized to where they are on the table (left vs. right), that would be some low-hanging fruit to get some audio improvement.

Josh