Certain kinds of drains that really irritate me in TPA

[ER777]

But that's just it. It isn't real at all. It happens so often and in such an unrealistic manner that it's obviously prescripted bullshyte. I've been complaining about example 1 since the core pack. I've notice example 2 happens as well, but I've adapted my timing to avoid that.

I've always had a sneaky suspicion that TPA's collision mesh for the tops of the slings is very angular, not like the rounded top edge of real slings. Obviously a round ball hitting a rounded piece of rubber can bounce off at any angle but if that edge was flat at about a 45 degree angle (like STTNG but smaller and steeper) it would act a lot more like TPA does.

I see drain type #1 all the time on Star Trek: The Next Generation. Especially on the right bumper. I've never played the real table though, so I cant comment on how realistic or not this type of drain is in that game.

The slings on STTNG are actually trapezoids instead of triangles, with the tops having straight edges angled towards the outlanes, so example #1 behavior is natural and expected. Not so much on standard slings tho'.

Well said, I was thinking the exact same thing.

I've been thinking about this and I think the reason slap saves are so easy compared to real tables is largely due to the playfield being a on a monitor in a much smaller space. This means you can see both the ball's trajectory moving down and the flippers at the same time easily. When you're playing on a real machine the arc of ball movement in your field of vision is much much larger, and you can't as easily gauge where the ball is actually going to end up without immense amounts of practice since you can't see both the ball movement and the flippers at the same time.

Also well said and a good point. I often find in hindsight that I nudged the wrong direction on a real machine. After the ball has gone past the flippers I realize it was actually closer to the opposite one and I only made things worse. Its definitely harder for me to line up in real life (plus with TPA's strong open table nudging its much easier to aim the ball away from the drain in the first place).

 

[Kadett785]

The slings on STTNG are actually trapezoids instead of triangles, with the tops having straight edges angled towards the outlanes, so example #1 behavior is natural and expected. Not so much on standard slings tho'.

OK makes sense. The fact that the view is obscured by the photon torpedo launchers doesn't help either with the nudges

 

[Espy]

Only ever had a problem with #1. Never assumed it was Farsight's fault, just a result of pinball tables having the slingshot higher than the outlane post.

 

[Kaoru]

Strange. I thought I wrote a reply to this thread but it's not there. I guess I actually was writing one and then I got distracted or something. Anyway, here I go - a bit later than intended.

But that's just it. It isn't real at all. It happens so often and in such an unrealistic manner that it's obviously prescripted bullshyte. I've been complaining about example 1 since the core pack. I've notice example 2 happens as well, but I've adapted my timing to avoid that.

I've never really noticed until more recently, when the game was released on Steam, I think. It just eventually caught my attention that in nine out of ten instances #1 was the cause of all my drains. I don't remember it ever being like that (or at least as frequent), so my guess is that it must have found its way with an update.

Oh yeah fealing like the game is "RIGGED" especially after you get an EB the game decides the ball your playing is done, how convenient you got an EB.

Heh, yeah. Thought it was only me and my impossibly bad luck. I notice this all the time as well, and weirdly it's always the extra balls that seem to drain the fastest. But who knows?

The trick to avoid #1 is to nudge before the ball ever gets close to the top of the sling (nudge to side so the ball moves towards the center, away from the outlane...do 2 nudges in a row if you need too). If you wait till it hits the top of the sling, your chances of saving it are much less. Preventive nudging FTW.

Umm, uh. Oh well. However, that's not what I was getting at. Of course even something like "Sonic '06" can be played if you manage to avoid the game's many many bugs and glitches. But the thing is that a scripted event like that shouldn't be in the game in the first place! Sure, even I nudge around like mad so that the ball won't get there at all costs (Try doing that in something like Big Shot, however. Before you know it the table does tilt.), but when things go so fast that you lose track or when you find yourself in a "Why on earth is the ball suddenly THERE instead of THAT place?"-moment it's rather hopeless.

Anyway, if the probability rate of it happening was something like 50/50 I wouldn't complain. Sometimes you just have to live with bad luck. But it simply has nothing to do with bad luck, it's just scripted event bulls**t supreme. It's actually the most reliable thing happening in the entire game, maybe even more than actually starting it.

@Example #2 and almost no one having a problem with it:
I'm a bit lost now because virtually never performed a successful slap save in TPA since the game is out on PS3. For me the ball always goes down. Even when I'm not actually "slapsaving" but rather generally "playing" the ball go down through the center when it somehow shoots down on (or near) the tip of the flipper. It never bounces off in a way that it's save or could be saved. It never goes into a direction like up, left or right - it's alwaysalways down. As I said in the first post, it's like the whole area around the tip of the flipper is an utter death zone.

 

[jrolson]

The one drain that really bugs me is when you hit the left side of the ramp in Star Trek, it ALWAYS drains...

 

[pinballchris]

#2 in Big Shot. The phantom "through the tip of the flipper".

 

[soundwave106]

The one drain that really bugs me is when you hit the left side of the ramp in Star Trek, it ALWAYS drains...

I recall that being an "issue" on the actual real life machine. ST:TNG is like Twilight Zone in that it's quite a drain-prone machine...

 

[netizen]

I get irked at the "slap saves" on 'droid where the ball goes off the forward edge of the flipper right into the post of the opposite sling and then SDTM.

I'm sure this behaviour isn't limited to just 'droid but it seems to happen more often on mobile than on PC in my experience.

 

[Tabe]

I get irked at the "slap saves" on 'droid where the ball goes off the forward edge of the flipper right into the post of the opposite sling and then SDTM.

That happens to me all the time on the PS3.

 

[Buzz1126]

There are several "posts of Death" such as the above example and the Fireball ramp post in TOTAN. I've played the real tables and it seems the rate of drain is pretty much the same in TPA. I think you can only get so much realism when you're writing code...

 

[Kaoru]

#2 in Big Shot. The phantom "through the tip of the flipper".

I don't find that event being exclusive to just "Big Shot", however. It's happening on all the other tables as well. For a fraction of a milisecond I see the ball touching the flipper, I feel the gamepad rumbling! There's definitely a collision happening! But still the ball drains through the center, and I don't know why or how.

There are several "posts of Death" such as the above example and the Fireball ramp post in TOTAN. I've played the real tables and it seems the rate of drain is pretty much the same in TPA. I think you can only get so much realism when you're writing code...

I agree. Those posts are pretty annoying indeed, but that is because the actual tables are designed this way, not because there's something faulty going on in the TPA ball physics. Speaking personally, I do find this kind of game design rather questionable. I've got nothing against being punished for not performing a ramp shot or whatever accurately enough... but being punished for hitting a target that you're allowed or even supposed to shoot to advance in the game is the very definition of "unfair". But hey, if the table is this way then it is this way. In any case, it's not Farsight that is to blame here.

 

[Jeff Strong]

(Try doing that in something like Big Shot, however. Before you know it the table does tilt.)

Trust me I have, and tilting isn't really an issue. Check this out:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/t62a6y181611nmg/nudge.mp4

Towards the end I was just messing around and sent the ball to outlane on purpose just to prove a point about the nudging being overpowered, lol. Like I said before, with as generous as the tilt sensitivity is in comparison to the strength of the nudges, I can't really complain about any drains in TPA. I already feel like I'm cheating.

But I get what you're saying. I guess maybe #1 is perhaps Farsight's way of trying to compensate for the tables being too easy. Thing is it's so easy to prevent that from type of drain with nudging that it literally never happens to me.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

post/target of DEATH The Campionship Pub Left ramp inside yellow target if you hit it and nudge you may survive, do nothing and watch in amazement as it shoots to the right outlane perfectly every freaking time!

 

[soundwave106]

Speaking personally, I do find this kind of game design rather questionable. I've got nothing against being punished for not performing a ramp shot or whatever accurately enough... but being punished for hitting a target that you're allowed or even supposed to shoot to advance in the game is the very definition of "unfair".

"You can't please everyone" of course, there are people who of course comment that TPA is "too easy" for what it's worth. I think the difficulty of some of these tables appealed to hardcore pin-heads. TZ and ST:TNG are up near the top of the rankings despite the many insta-drain shots.

TOTAN was probably a better balance in retrospect, some insta-drains but more playable. I think the tables with a lot more insta-drain shots did back in the day turn off some newer / less experienced pinball players. Which is why some of the later tables like No Good Gofers, Scared Stiff, Monster Bash, etc. are designed a bit friendlier, and that in the aftermarket you can get things like drain extenders for ST:TNG if you want it for your collection...

 

[ER777]

In fairness many of those insta-drain shots are usually perfectly safe if you hit them from the opposite flipper. Sucker shots are just part of pinball.

My Baywatch has 5 of the same type of stand up targets by the ramps as STTNG has. 3 of the 5 are insta-drains STDM faster than I have any chance to react to if hit squarly from the flipper on the opposite side of the table. That's just the way it is and I have to not hit them from that angle if I don't want to drain. The one STTNG I played recently played pretty much just like the TPA version does too fwiw.

Considering that I can usually beat my real table scores by a magnitude of 5-10 times I can't complain about the cheap stuff in TPA too much.

 

[Dumahim]

The one drain that really bugs me is when you hit the left side of the ramp in Star Trek, it ALWAYS drains...

Yeah, that one was really pissing me off for a while. I managed to not get drains down the right side and managed the ball pretty well, then I'd get this insta-drain. For a while it felt like 2/3rds of my drains were because of that damn ramp shot to the left. It just got to the point that I had to be sure to error on the other side and always flip late and hope I was slightly early to get the ramp. Once I started doing that, I was able to get much deeper into the game and managed all the goals except Warp 9.9.

 

[Punisher]

I have an issue with the Greed target below the yellow jet in TZ. Hitting that with the right flipper is an instant SDTM. Pisses me off so much.

 

[Zaphod77]

See what GREED will get you? they are called GREED targets for a reason.

Those sucker shots are absolutely 100% intentionally designed into the game. On funhouse the "step" targets are often known as the PEST targets, and there are a lot of drains off of them. still there's generally a trick you can use to hit the shot safely. often, the solution is to use a different flipper, or try on the fly instead of from a trap, or vice versa. sometimes you will be able to save with a nudge after.

 

[switch3flip]

One thing I like about TPA is actually the minor bugs and drains. In reality every machine is a little different and has its quirks that you have to learn. Some flippers are weak, some kickouts behave strangely and so on and so on. Pinball machines are vintage and used and none are perfect. This adds to "personality" of each unique pin, and you have to get to know how each individual behaves. The most unrealistic thing TPA could do is to make perfect pins.

 

[Storm Chaser]

My worst drain is when the ball has a slow bounce just before the flipper and arches just above the flipper and goes STDM. It's quite common especially on older tables, such as Genie. It can be saved by nudging but the thing is that you always think you are going to get it with the flipper. Hurts every time!