DLC Release Date

[bavelb]

The tables are DLC not updates and shouldn't have this fee attached to them. Hopefully in the future they won't have to issue an update to support each DLC release.

DLC has to be submissioned, approved and paid for the same way a Title Update is. Just might be a different fee (I assume DLC is even more expensive than a patch though, although DLC brings MS a share of the pie as well, so who knows).

 

[PiN WiZ]

The tables are DLC not updates and shouldn't have this fee attached to them. Hopefully in the future they won't have to issue an update to support each DLC release.

Since a title update is required with each DLC release, they must pay the full submission fee everytime they submit an update.

 

[Brandon Debes]

Since a title update is required with each DLC release, they must pay the full submission fee everytime they submit an update.

There's gotta be some way to design around that, right? I know that they are updating the base title with table assets for the main menu. But I don't have to title update Rock Band every week. It just reads all the attached storage devices looking for DLC, builds a cache of them, and presents them in a menu for me to play.

 

[bavelb]

There's gotta be some way to design around that, right? I know that they are updating the base title with table assets for the main menu. But I don't have to title update Rock Band every week. It just reads all the attached storage devices looking for DLC, builds a cache of them, and presents them in a menu for me to play.

Each Rock Band song uses the exact same assets as the others though, only ligned up in a different way (be they colored dots or letters for the lyrics) apart from the soundfiles, so it migh tbe a lot easier to do that there. There's also stuff like goals and trophies and other setting that tie into the main title more. I know I have to update PFX or Zen to get their new tables as well.

Maybe they could pull it off if 360 was their sole platform, but maybe this is the consequence of their crossplatform unity (that should be saving costs on all other fronts)

 

[Brandon Debes]

Each Rock Band song uses the exact same assets as the others though

Right, so maybe just pick the table you want to play from a sortable, textual list style menu like Rock Band. Do you really need an image of the table to show up before you pick it? Whatever, but if that kind of thing is necessary to avoid $40k expenditures and keep the product profitable, then go for it. Ultimately I don't care what they have to do or how long it takes as long as I keep getting a steady trickle of high quality digital pinball table reproductions.

 

[Nik Barbour]

Right, so maybe just pick the table you want to play from a sortable, textual list style menu like Rock Band. Do you really need an image of the table to show up before you pick it? Whatever, but if that kind of thing is necessary to avoid $40k expenditures and keep the product profitable, then go for it. Ultimately I don't care what they have to do or how long it takes as long as I keep getting a steady trickle of high quality digital pinball table reproductions.

Exactly - I personally wouldn't be bothered what they did with the front end, if it could save them future costs. Just as long as xbox stays supported and tables keep coming either monthly or bi-monthly or at least regularly.

 

[Pete]

my gigantic pinball arcade

I don't care how high a resolution your ipad3 / 10" tablet has, you cannot beat standing in front of something that is visually the same size to the eye as a real table.

check out my setup... pinball arcade on at 120 inches with an xbox on my epson hd projector. I am litterally rotting my brains out, it's awesome! My girlfriend is starting to worry.

this pic isnt the greatest becouse of the day light, but at night my entire wall becomes a giant pinball machine
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n203/StiggieVandell/e3c1f7a4.jpg

 

[bavelb]

Right, so maybe just pick the table you want to play from a sortable, textual list style menu like Rock Band. Do you really need an image of the table to show up before you pick it? Whatever, but if that kind of thing is necessary to avoid $40k expenditures and keep the product profitable, then go for it. Ultimately I don't care what they have to do or how long it takes as long as I keep getting a steady trickle of high quality digital pinball table reproductions.

I meant the ACTUAL song, while you play it, uses the exact same graphical assets and software as any other. There are far far more thigns the same between 2 rock band songs as between 2 tables. Therefor it might be a lot easier to import a song. And like I said, a platform specific solution migh tnnot be somkething they want, but rather a one size fits all (eventually) even if it looks more expensive on the 360 front might be cheaper overall.

 

[Nik Barbour]

I don't care how high a resolution your ipad3 / 10" tablet has, you cannot beat standing in front of something that is visually the same size to the eye as a real table.
QUOTE]

check out my setup... pinball arcade on at 120 inches with an xbox on my epson hd projector. I am litterally rotting my brains out, it's awesome! My girlfriend is starting to worry.

this pic isnt the greatest becouse of the day light, but at night my entire wall becomes a giant pinball machine
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n203/StiggieVandell/e3c1f7a4.jpg

That looks awesome!

 

[Volitar Prime]

Since a title update is required with each DLC release, they must pay the full submission fee everytime they submit an update.

If this is really the case then this is an example of poor coding and design. I have downloaded lots of DLC for other games (including that other pinball game) that didn't require title updates for every DLC.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

If this is really the case then this is an example of poor coding and design. I have downloaded lots of DLC for other games (including that other pinball game) that didn't require title updates for every DLC.

On other games, the DLC is straight data, and the original executable can use this data without modification. But on TPA, the tables have nonstandard toys (Bride's rotating head, CV's Ringmaster and backglass cannon, etc.) that require specialized code to handle. This code has to be added to the main executable for these tables to operate, and the best way to do that on a 360 is via an update:

Exactly. No menu assets to access the tables from. And also the code to handle the special objects on the table is part of the executable. Each table requires some special code to get it to work properly.

DLC takes about 3 days for approval, but it won't work without a code update. So either a title update is necessary (which takes a few weeks for certification), or you would have to add code to the DLC, in which case the DLC then has to go through multiple weeks of certification. The simplest and fastest way is to just update the title update with the code so only one certification is needed. This also allows code fixes for all tables in one submission.

So if FarSight somehow had the code for each table in the DLC, they'd have to do multiple submissions for each round of updates, and as we're finding out here, that would be even more time-consuming and expensive than the present situation.

 

[DopedToInfinity]

I downloaded Tony Hawks HD this afternoon as it was released today, and the first time i fired it up it had a 24meg title update!!! What the hell is going on? Why does a game need such a big update on it's day of release? Looks to me like it got a free pass being part of the XBLA summer of arcade promotion.

When TPA was apple's app of the week apple rushed through an update (the MB frankenstein camera prob) really quick too.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Tony Hawk remake & the fact that the MB camera bug got fixed quick, but judging by apple's and MS's behaviour it seems like they don't mind breaking their own rules when it suits them.

 

[Dumahim]

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it was talked about earlier. Looks like Polytron will not fix the Fez patch due to the costs.

http://kotaku.com/5927224/fez-wont-be-fixed-because-microsoft-wants-a-ton-of-money

 

[PiN WiZ]

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it was talked about earlier. Looks like Polytron will not fix the Fez patch due to the costs.

http://kotaku.com/5927224/fez-wont-be-fixed-because-microsoft-wants-a-ton-of-money

Good thing FarSight decided to go multi-platform with The Pinball Arcade.

 

[mmmagnetic]

Yeah. As painful as it is to wait for the 360 DLC, it's a good thing Farsight isn't completely dependent on just one companies whims.

I vaguely remember that the creator of Fez has caused some controversies with some pretty abrasive statements, so my sympathies for him are limited, and as I understand he went XBLA only because his thinks his game is meant to be a console-only experience... which, as it seems right now, is coming back to bite him.

 

[Bonzo]

judging by apple's and MS's behaviour it seems like they don't mind breaking their own rules when it suits them.

Hm, I'd kinda like to hear Franky's reply to that. Seems like I already miss him...

 

[Richard B]

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it was talked about earlier. Looks like Polytron will not fix the Fez patch due to the costs.

http://kotaku.com/5927224/fez-wont-be-fixed-because-microsoft-wants-a-ton-of-money

It says they are allowed to put the patch back online, despite the problems with save file corruption, due to fact the issue affects less than 1% of the users. That sounds a lot worse than TPA's problem, which only affects people who do something really stupid. In a sane world MS would let them patch it in a later release. Too bad this isn't necessarily a sane world.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

If this is really the case then this is an example of poor coding and design. I have downloaded lots of DLC for other games (including that other pinball game) that didn't require title updates for every DLC.

On other games, the DLC is straight data, and the original executable can use this data without modification. But on TPA, the tables have nonstandard toys (Bride's rotating head, CV's Ringmaster and backglass cannon, etc.) that require specialized code to handle. This code has to be added to the main executable for these tables to operate, and the best way to do that on a 360 is via an update:.

Thanks Serenseven for explaining that.

Rock Band doesn't need a title update because thier DLC is just the audio and some values to tell the engine where to place the dots.

Pinball is way more complicated than a simple music game. Each table requries specialized code to work. It's impossible for me to program every single toy ahead of time without having the table playing. The Bride Head on BOP and the magic box on TOM are perfect examples. Both have motors to move them and switches for position. TOM has 4 separate switches for each position. BOP has 1 switched used in 3 positions and none in the 4th. There is no simple way to code this ahead of time.

As others have said, each Title Update isn't a set fee. Each submission costs money. While I can't be specific on amounts, it is quite expensive.

 

[xNiCeGuYx]

Thanks Mike for clarification. How is the talking with MS going? I really hope they let the update through.

 

[Mungoholly]

mike you deserve a raise..you're taking more flack than a WWII bomber