Do you prefer the new lighting on the original tables?

[Void]

Original tables with new lighting for those without PS3.

Tales of the Arabian Nights
Ripley's Believe It or Not
Black Hole
Theatre of Magic

 

[Franky]

what i've noticed is, that the playball is very dark and grey whilst the captive ball is shiny white.
If the darker setting or the brighter one is better is a matter of taste BUT the DMD is WAY to dark - if you look at a real pinball machine, the dmd is almost the brightest thing and it's for a reason (and btw. a bright sparkling dmd is just wonderful). In my opinion the dmd nieeds to be MUCH brighter and the playfield a little bit - to dark is a waste of the beautiful table art.

i took a second look - and really boys - the dmd needs to be shiny yellow, the dmd is one of the most important and attractive part of a pinball machine, all the stories, modes, jokes, please fellas - let it shine.

 

[laughing_lunatic]

way too dark for me... maybe I'm just getting old and my eyes can't pick up the ball in the gloom... luckily I'm in a nice position where I can play new tables = PS3, original tables = 360... ideally I'd like a nice compromise between the 2...

 

[Franky]

hi, it's me again i checked it one more time and the more i look at it the more unnatural it seems to me. As i said, the ball is way to mat and grey - it is called "the silver ball" for a reason. And the playfield also looks mat and unnatural and while the playfield is dark the plastics are bright. The playfield in a real pinball machine is waxed, shiny and crisp. But in the latest version it looks like it is covered with ashes or covered behind tinted glass. I really hope the xbox version looks better. There should really be an option to change the brightness of the playfield so everyone would be happy. It would be worth the wait. I think they will get it right in the end.

Franky

(and of course the dmd thing)

 

[bavelb]

hi, it's me again i checked it one more time and the more i look at it the more unnatural it seems to me. As i said, the ball is way to mat and grey - it is called "the silver ball" for a reason. And the playfield also looks mat and unnatural and while the playfield is dark the plastics are bright. The playfield in a real pinball machine is waxed, shiny and crisp. But in the latest version it looks like it is covered with ashes or covered behind tinted glass. I really hope the xbox version looks better. There should really be an option to change the brightness of the playfield so everyone would be happy. It would be worth the wait. I think they will get it right in the end.

Franky

(and of course the dmd thing)

I hope you aren't just judging this off of youtube videos.

 

[brakel]

On my tv the new lighting looks great! Shiny things are shiny, etc. I do agree that it will be great once they can add a slider for the lighting.

 

[spoonman]

Why wouldn't Farsight just give us a 'Night" and "Day" table option?
Wouldn't this make everyone happy?

I also think they need a bit more color saturation, especially in Funhouse. It doesn't seem as colorful anymore.

 

[Franky]

I hope you aren't just judging this off of youtube videos.

Unfortunately this is all i have for now but you don't need much to see that the dmd is really WAY to dark and the ball is mat grey instead of shiny silver.

This is what a DMD should look like - shiny yellow instead of brown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kM_WL01iJQ

Another Comparison:

TPA:

Original:

And this is what the playfield should look like (with the original dmd):

and this is the TPA Version, way to dark and mat:

The Playfield is dark and dusty while the fingers, ramps and plastics are bright. A Pinball Machine has to be a shiny, sparkling, flickering, flashing thing.

A short story: A friend came over yesterday who owns an original ToM and i showed him the video and he said: "It looks like my original table - when it's turned off".

 

[Fungi]

Although it's not as bright and flashy as the real life pic, the PS3 version is not as dark and dinghy as your TPA screen shot. For instance, I actually CAN read the words "shoot again" between the flippers, and the blue "electric bolts" on the inlane rails kinda glow.

Also, the ball is mirror like and reflects its surroundings.

With that being said, I really wish you would stop judging the lighting by the YouTube vids. If the tables really were as dark as in those vids, I would agree with you. The DMDs really could be made brighter tho', and without affecting the tables.

P.S. The in-table DMD in CV is very bright. It looks like glowing LEDs instead of orange pigment.

 

[Franky]

But there's one thing i'd like to say - besides the not yet perfect lightning the tables are really almost perfect recreations. A great job i've to admit.

 

[bavelb]

Youtube is known for applying a darkening and matting filter, which is why you shouldnt use it except for general impressions.

 

[Franky]

this makes no sense since all the pictures are from youtube - but anyway - i came straight from the arcades right now and i had an very interesting chat with the owner a 59 year old guy who knows all the pinball games ever created it seemed. We talked about the old arcades and "lightning" of course - i brought it up because i wanted to hear what he has to say about it and he said some very interesting things, he said the pinball machines weren't created to be played in the dark that's why the artists put so much effort in the painting and the artwork and that the machines were meant to be used at fairs to attract people and of course to make money and that the original arcades weren't dark either but over the years pinball loose it's power and the original arcades died and many of those machines were sold to bars and privates who, in lack of space, put them in backrooms, dark corners or cellars and from that time on they were connected with a dark bar environment - which is absolutly wrong. He also believes that putting a pinball machine in the dark is disrespectfull. Which i totally understand and agree on.

But a very interesting thought he came up with, and i haven't thought about this, was that "A dark playfield is NO LONGER a recreation of the table instead it's a recreation of an environment which misses the target of preserving pinball. A dark playfield is only a preservation of an old and dirty pinball machine found in a barn"

that's what he was saying and i think he's totally right on this one, if farsight wants to do a perfect recreation of pinball tables and really preserve this tables than there is no way pass a bright and "original" looking colorful playfield (because this is the way it really is) and a dark version could only be a second option but never be the first. So farsight should stick to the original bright and colorful exact recreation of the tables and should considering a dark playfield as an option unless they want to preserve an old bar environment.

 

[bavelb]

Which is why they want to make a lightning slider so people can adjust it to their own liking.

 

[Franky]

right, but i don't think it's that easy - they will need 3,4 or 5 extra textures depending on how many gradations they will do, correct me if i'm wrong. They will need the original textures (the table as it is), then they will need one a little bit darker, than another one and then the darkest one. (depending on the gradations).

for me two textures would be enough, the original one (because of the colours, the artwork, the preservation and authenticity) and the dark version for the goth-people jk.

i'm soooo looking forward to the xbox dlcs although i know it will be the less colourful and dark versions.

 

[Jeff Strong]

this makes no sense since all the pictures are from youtube - but anyway - i came straight from the arcades right now and i had an very interesting chat with the owner a 59 year old guy who knows all the pinball games ever created it seemed. We talked about the old arcades and "lightning" of course - i brought it up because i wanted to hear what he has to say about it and he said some very interesting things, he said the pinball machines weren't created to be played in the dark that's why the artists put so much effort in the painting and the artwork and that the machines were meant to be used at fairs to attract people and of course to make money and that the original arcades weren't dark either but over the years pinball loose it's power and the original arcades died and many of those machines were sold to bars and privates who, in lack of space, put them in backrooms, dark corners or cellars and from that time on they were connected with a dark bar environment - which is absolutly wrong. He also believes that putting a pinball machine in the dark is disrespectfull. Which i totally understand and agree on.

But a very interesting thought he came up with, and i haven't thought about this, was that "A dark playfield is NO LONGER a recreation of the table instead it's a recreation of an environment which misses the target of preserving pinball. A dark playfield is only a preservation of an old and dirty pinball machine found in a barn"

that's what he was saying and i think he's totally right on this one, if farsight wants to do a perfect recreation of pinball tables and really preserve this tables than there is no way pass a bright and "original" looking colorful playfield (because this is the way it really is) and a dark version could only be a second option but never be the first. So farsight should stick to the original bright and colorful exact recreation of the tables and should considering a dark playfield as an option unless they want to preserve an old bar environment.

Interestng insights....but I grew up in the 80's arcades and they were always intentionally dimly lit. Too much light means too much glare on the video screens, as well as the pinball glass. I don't remember any "bright" arcades.

 

[Jeff Strong]

this makes no sense since all the pictures are from youtube - but anyway - i came straight from the arcades right now and i had an very interesting chat with the owner a 59 year old guy who knows all the pinball games ever created it seemed. We talked about the old arcades and "lightning" of course - i brought it up because i wanted to hear what he has to say about it and he said some very interesting things, he said the pinball machines weren't created to be played in the dark that's why the artists put so much effort in the painting and the artwork and that the machines were meant to be used at fairs to attract people and of course to make money and that the original arcades weren't dark either but over the years pinball loose it's power and the original arcades died and many of those machines were sold to bars and privates who, in lack of space, put them in backrooms, dark corners or cellars and from that time on they were connected with a dark bar environment - which is absolutly wrong. He also believes that putting a pinball machine in the dark is disrespectfull. Which i totally understand and agree on.

But a very interesting thought he came up with, and i haven't thought about this, was that "A dark playfield is NO LONGER a recreation of the table instead it's a recreation of an environment which misses the target of preserving pinball. A dark playfield is only a preservation of an old and dirty pinball machine found in a barn"

that's what he was saying and i think he's totally right on this one, if farsight wants to do a perfect recreation of pinball tables and really preserve this tables than there is no way pass a bright and "original" looking colorful playfield (because this is the way it really is) and a dark version could only be a second option but never be the first. So farsight should stick to the original bright and colorful exact recreation of the tables and should considering a dark playfield as an option unless they want to preserve an old bar environment.

Interestng insights....but I grew up in the 80's arcades and they were always intentionally dimly lit. Too much light means too much glare on the video screens, as well as the pinball glass. I don't remember any "bright" arcades. They were always dark, even in the daytime.

 

[Fungi]

Just like televisions, movies, and fireworks, I like looking at visuals produced with light in a darkened environment, otherwise they get washed out. This is how you get it "to be a shiny, sparkling, flickering, flashing thing". Also, I wouldn't go comparing older circa 1950s machines to the circa 1980s machines. When the machines were created back then, they were created with a well lit arcade in mind. The Lawlors and the Ritchies of the world weren't building these is a vacuum, they knew the environment these machines were going to when they designed them. Thus the blinding flashers of High Speed and F-14 Tomcat.

Once more thing. The PS3 tables aren't that dark!

 

[Kolchak357]

I think a lot of this depends on what you grew up with. The arcade I played at in the late 70's and 80's had windows and lights and was fairly bright. So my memories are more related to table art, sound, and gameplay. I don't really recall the lights very much. The darker arcades that were common in malls always felt too dark for pinball. I assumed they were catering to the video games that looked much better in dim lighting. But if that is what you grew up with, then I can see why you would prefer that. The dark lighting looks better, but I prefer a brighter table to actually play on. I guess it is just a matter of preference, so it would be great to have both options. Looking forward to that.

 

[Crush3d_Turtle]

I have played the majority of my pinball at conventions where the room is brightly lit and you can appreciate all of the small details. I only have one experience of playing in a darkly lit area in a hotel (Street Fighter II) and it was terrible. I could barely see the ball on the playfield or what I was shooting for. The PS Vita version of the game has the brightness just right, whereas the PS3 version just looks dark and ugly to me.

 

[Franky]

I grew up in the 80's too and of course we didn't play pinball in broad daylight but not in dark cellars either. And just because some places were really dark holes doesn't mean pinball machines were build for such caves. When you take a look at the artwork and think about the work the artist put into it than it's self-explanatory that they weren't made to stand in darkness.

My arcades for instance looked something like this:

But anyway, i do understand that the effects are cooler when the environment is darker but i've to agree to my friendly chat that a recreation should be true to the original table as close as it gets and should not simulate an environment because it is called "pinball game" and not "bar manger 2012".
it's like making a driving simulation and using grey ferraris because at night they look grey.

I think it would be a shame to do such a recreation of such wonderful tables. I've no problems with an option to simulate a dark bar or with a "night mod" but i think the "standard" should first be the original 1:1 copy of the machine so that they are really "preserved" forever as they were in real life.

In an interview a farsight member said he wants to preserve it for the kids - but when you show your kids the dark table all you do is showing them how pinball machines looked in dark bars but they won't get a clue of how beautiful this (old) machines were. i've just finished a game of ToM on the XBOX and the table just looks AMAZING - all the colours, the purple, the yellow, the drawings, .... it would be such a waste. And it makes me sad that the update overwrites these tables with darker ones - to me it's a loss.
And i'm really thinking about waiting on the pc version and getting the dlcs there and keeping tpa on the xbox as it is.

And as i said - i don't need a slider to change the brightness i would be satisfied with 2 options - a) the original table (i would use this also for my cabinet) and b) a night mod - you can change it via the option screen like in racing games a) original course daylight b) original course nighttime.

and one more thing: it's about recreating and preserving tables not lights. (lights always look better in darkness, that's what lights do - but it's not about lights it's about pinball tables.)