Farsight comes clean on issues with 360 platform

[Rafie]

Wow I have certainly learned a lot from taking a huge hiatus due to pinball burnout. I found myself educated on how things work when it comes to coding/scripting and such. Now I finally understand why the 360 is lacking with the DLC's as well. S7, Mike, and Jeff...you guys rock. Thank you for the wealth of information. I'm a huge fan of all pinball, and I have TPA on all devices and consoles. I'm sorry the 360 side is taking longer, but I do hope that things will start looking up pretty soon.

 

[Mark W**a]

How would that solve anything?

It would make things even more complicated, time-consuming and expensive.

Some of the problems are due to the core business model. Even Zen -- who are "published" by Microsoft (and I use that term loosely) -- have had substantial problems and delays due to the costs of DLC.

Oh, and Microsoft take a royalty cut for being the "publisher". It's good to be the king.

This is fundamentally a Microsoft issue. They control the entire 360 development experience, from the IDE to the final purchase mechanism. They impose costs and charges on developers at every level.

These are the people who brought us Microsoft Points, paid Avatars that cost more than some games, and an Awards system that earns us 25 cents for a year or more of brand loyalty. Is it really any surprise that they're also gouging small developers?

It's very common to see popular XBox Arcade games make it to disc, eventually.

Dreamcast Collection, Konami and Capcom discs, Q Entertainment Disc, Namco Collection... they come out about a year/ 2 years later, it's just a number of XBLA games on a disc. That's all it is. They've done this since the 360 was in it's infancy (IIRC Geometry Wars and a few other games actually came with 360's, on disc, back in mid 2006).

It's added sales, added awareness. I've read that as many as 30% or more of Xbox 360's sold are never connected to the internet. That's a lot of potential customers.

I've said it before, a disc with 16 or so tables for 40$ is a great idea. Pinball Hall of Fame was a good seller, despite really bad distribution (not sold at Gamestop/Walmart/Bestbuy IE major retailers). With the right publisher, they could make good money with a disc.

 

[Mark W**a]

If Rising Star Games can get shelf space at Gamestop for stuff like Death Smiles and Akai Katana, and make money, then there's no reason something like a Pinball simulator, which is a much more mainstream product for Western audiences than Japanese STG's, can't do the same.

I know Farsight makes more off of digital since they self published, but I don't see how a retail disc would hurt them. Especially if it comes out a year/year and a half later.

Also Rising Star makes sense as a publisher. STG's and Pinball go together like peas and carrots. Seriously, every STG player on my friends list has PBA and FX2. I don't know if it's the scoring systems, or the old school arcade flavor, or what, but we shooter folk sure love our pinball.

 

[Brian Clark]

Rising Star isn't a good example. Microsoft's policies meant they had to do a larger print run than planned and the sales weren't as much as they would have liked. Under Defeat is PS3 only in the US thanks to Microsoft's policies. EU 360 version is region locked, as well.

 

[Tom]

If they are throwing 40K for each title update for the 360 then just why not put that money into making a disc like PHOF? That way there are no bugs no issues, no 360 users waiting evey week to see if a crumb or particle is going to be released, searching on a forum and facebook page only to find hidden obscure answers that don't produce any resolutions. I'd rather wait for a disc with several tables on it, than 3-6 months for two tables and another 3-6 centuries for two more tables....

There would still be bugs on a disc aswell, it doesnt matter if its a disc or a downloadable game when it comes to bugs.

 

[DopedToInfinity]

Pinball Hall of Fame was a good seller, despite really bad distribution (not sold at Gamestop/Walmart/Bestbuy IE major retailers). With the right publisher, they could make good money with a disc.

I took a load of 360 games to blockbuster on monday (it's opposite my dentist & I needed a checkup) I got ****ty prices for the lot, but I didn't care as I would never play them again.

They refused to take the Williams pinball hall of fame collection because it wasn't on their system, and one member of staff remarked that she'd never seen that game before.

That seems like bad marketing / distribution to me. I blame System 3 who were the publisher in the UK personally...

 

[shutyertrap]

They refused to take the Williams pinball hall of fame collection because it wasn't on their system, and one member of staff remarked that she'd never seen that game before.

Helloooooo, eBay!!

 

[Richard B]

What they could do is just release a new TPA every year, and make the previous content compatible with it, like Rock Band and Pinball FX 2 do. For instance, release TPA 2 in Sept 2013, include 4 tables, and offer all the DLC from Pack 4 to the release. Release one title and DLC update at the six month mark, then 6 months later, release TPA 3, and repeat the process. No more submission fees.

 

[Bowflex]

Another problem with a disc is it still has to go through the submission process and is still subject to fees by the console maker. The approval process is just as long if not longer than the dlc and after approval you then have to wait for manufacturing, packaging and distribution. Would definitely take more time.
Richard b's idea is the one that makes the most sense to improve flowthrough, sidestep fees and maintain a nice and consistent release schedule.

 

[Jeff Strong]

What they could do is just release a new TPA every year, and make the previous content compatible with it, like Rock Band and Pinball FX 2 do. For instance, release TPA 2 in Sept 2013, include 4 tables, and offer all the DLC from Pack 4 to the release. Release one title and DLC update at the six month mark, then 6 months later, release TPA 3, and repeat the process. No more submission fees.

I agree that this may be their best option. I suggested this in a PM conversation when I first heard about their 360 delays a few weeks ago. I wonder how much they have to pay to publish a new title...

 

[Nik Barbour]

This just sounds better and better. We've gone from monthly, to bi-monthly, to quarterly, to twice yearly to annually.
Life is short, and I'm not getting any younger.
Don't forget a new generation console might only be 12 months away.

If Farsight, go for any dlc release period of longer than 3 months, then I'm done and out!
I'm not buying another format, and feel pretty pi$$ed Farsight didn't forsee this problem.
I'm not prepared to take dlc & updates / fixes in any frequency longer than this, mostly due to Farsight's shoddy quality control in the first place. (latest Android release has managed to re-break the previously fixed BH).

Farsight have still to make any kind of statement regarding what release will be, so until then we wait.

Sad to say, I'm struggling to call myself a Pinball Arcade Fan anymore.

 

[xNiCeGuYx]

I want the PC version so bad! Maybe xbox users could get a discount for their bought tables? (which I don't think will happen)
Hopefully my system will run it smoothly.

 

[Nik Barbour]

I want the PC version so bad! Maybe xbox users could get a discount for their bought tables? (which I don't think will happen)
Hopefully my system will run it smoothly.

D

Do you have any faith it will be any less flawed on pc than the other platforms its already released on?
I think by the time you throw in hardware / software variables, this has the potential to be the biggest fiasco format after xbox.

 

[Bonzo]

Do you have any faith it will be any less flawed on pc than the other platforms its already released on?
I think by the time you throw in hardware / software variables, this has the potential to be the biggest fiasco format after xbox.

It may be as flawed as the other releases and the bugs specific to this version might not be easy fixes. But at least once something is fixed, it won't be a problem to get the update released.

 

[Jeff Strong]

It may be as flawed as the other releases and the bugs specific to this version might not be easy fixes. But at least once something is fixed, it won't be a problem to get the update released.

Yeah, the PC has the potential to have the best version because 1.) they won't have to deal with submission/approval delays/fees. 2.) PC's have the most powerful hardware, so if they put in extra graphic options, it should be the best-looking version as well. 3.) Also, don't forget portrait/cabinet mode.

 

[Brandon Debes]

Yeah, the PC has the potential to have the best version because 1.) they won't have to deal with submission/approval delays/fees. 2.) PC's have the most powerful hardware, so if they put in extra graphic options, it should be the best-looking version as well. 3.) Also, don't forget portrait/cabinet mode.

Yeah, but those things are true of the Mac version, and it's in fairly sad shape from my understanding. Well, maybe Apple has a submission process for DLC there. But they have one for iOS IAP, and that platform gets all the content first as it is.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Yeah, but those things are true of the Mac version, and it's in fairly sad shape from my understanding. Well, maybe Apple has a submission process for DLC there. But they have one for iOS IAP, and that platform gets all the content first as it is.

True, but the Mac version is a port of the iOS version (not that it should be, but it is), whereas the PC version is probably more of a port of the 360 version, so that's quite a difference graphically. And yeah, Apple definitely has a submission process for the Mac DLC, which appears to be slower than the iOS process.

 

[Nik Barbour]

UPDATE The Pinball Arcade fell short of being greenlit in October, but with the project currently sitting at 88%, a huge push will help get The Pinball Arcade greenlit in November, so please take a minute to VOTE for The Pinball Arcade on Steam Greenlight.

I'm not doing a single thing for Farsight (including purchase of dlc on other platforms / kickstarter's ./ steam votes) until they announce what is happening with the fiasco that is xbox dlc.
Sort out the platforms released before adding more.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Nik, they already said that they are figuring out a way around Microsoft's problems and going to bring in 3-4 packs for 1 month; if they continue with 1 pack per month, that would be costly. They need to use their updates wisely and not force them to stop support TPA on XBLA.

To Steam users: VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!

 

[Nik Barbour]

Nik, they already said that they are figuring out a way around Microsoft's problems and going to bring in 3-4 packs for 1 month; if they continue with 1 pack per month, that would be costly. They need to use their updates wisely and not force them to stop support TPA on XBLA.

To Steam users: VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!

I haven't seen a quoted figure of what frequency it will be coming in.
Simply a statement off Mike R, saying "he knows of no plans for Farsight to drop xbox support".
I want to know what will happen with xbox dlc frequency, before I do anything, or spend any more money on Farsight products
or do anything further to assist them.
Sad to say, I'm not much of a 'Pinball Arcade Fan' anymore.
I think people have waited long enough now.
Not just for this, but Vita, & Mac updates fixes too.